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What does WG think pairing 40% win rate players with 50%+ is a good idea?


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fritzzie #101 Posted May 05 2019 - 04:27

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we have all had those matches where we feel it's stacked. and we have all had matches where we actually had fun or we wouldn't be here, tho only real issue is the way mm places players... a day with 15 wins and 50 losses. 3k+ damage and still a loss. over and over. people come here to find out why things seem to be going so wrong. not to be trolled for asking and wanting to understand, we all want to try to be better at the game or we wouldn't be reading this forum. and it seems that rng is stacked to insure the faster win for one side or the other. i installed xvm to watch my stats. and help me improve, i could care less about others i play with. but something needs to be done about stacking teams. if your not in a platoon spread the experienced players out more. would be a great start. so feel free to troll this..

SporkBoy #102 Posted May 05 2019 - 05:31

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I'm just waiting for skill based or skill balanced MM implimentantion and seeing all the whiners complain about the same things they complain about now.

dunniteowl #103 Posted May 05 2019 - 18:31

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View Postfritzzie, on May 04 2019 - 21:27, said:

we have all had those matches where we feel it's stacked. and we have all had matches where we actually had fun or we wouldn't be here, tho only real issue is the way mm places players... a day with 15 wins and 50 losses. 3k+ damage and still a loss. over and over. people come here to find out why things seem to be going so wrong. not to be trolled for asking and wanting to understand, we all want to try to be better at the game or we wouldn't be reading this forum. and it seems that rng is stacked to insure the faster win for one side or the other. i installed xvm to watch my stats. and help me improve, i could care less about others i play with. but something needs to be done about stacking teams. if your not in a platoon spread the experienced players out more. would be a great start. so feel free to troll this..

 

If the VAST MAJORITY of posts were like the underlined and bolded portion of your quoted post, then you'd be right.  That said, the incredible number of posts that do nothing more than posit some crack-brained idea of the MM having some 'malicious' intent against a base group of players for whatever reason one can think up that might make the positer feel better about their situation are legion.  Many of the posts that ask about 'what's going wrong' are not really presented as 'attempts to understand' or even in the not quoted section, 'want to try to be better at the game' when they are made.

 

Nine times out of ten, the issue is a complaint about how things are not going well, MM, RNG, Seal Clubbers, Haxors, Mods, Tiering, Arty, Gold Rounds, Chai Sniping TDs, etc., are the reason and explanation for why things are not going well for said positing person.  And pretty much everything that follows on from there can pretty easily be classed as 'foil-hattery' of magnitude.

 

So they end up getting ridiculed for their ridiculous positions, posited by the positers.  Peer review may not always be right, but it can pretty readily sort out the loonie from lucid without too much trouble.

 

The OPs complaint is an odd one, in my view.  Random is part of the deal, and that means getting saddled with the 40%rs from time to time and having one's 'greatness' hobbled by sidekicks unworthy of even Festus or Hop-a-long Cassidy status.  Put on them 'carry pants' and do your bit!

 

 

OvO



Pipinghot #104 Posted May 05 2019 - 20:51

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View PostKellyspals, on May 02 2019 - 19:45, said:

It is funny reading the comments on my post.

Believe what you want. 

M&M decides which side is strongest and which is the weakest.

You can try to say it's all odds. 

You have a certain number of excellent players, certain number of average players and below average players.  The winner is decided by who has the higher number of good players compared to the team with the lower good players. 

That is why one team can sweep another in short time. The close battles are equally matched teams, equally good or equally bad. 

If you roll a pair of dice and get a 9 does that mean the dice are "deciding to give you a nine", or is that just a random result? Obviously the answer is random, only a bonehead would claim that dice are "deciding" what number to give you.

 

The MM is the same way, random. Sometimes you get the team you want, sometimes you don't, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. But the reality of the MM is that the large majority of your battles are reasonably well balanced because that's what happens when you randomly pick really large teams, like having 15 per side. The number of battles that are significantly unbalanced are very small, and even those are not a guaranteed win or loss, you win a good number of low odds battles and you lose a good number of high odds battles.

View PostKellyspals, on May 02 2019 - 19:45, said:

The winner is decided by who has the higher number of good players compared to the team with the lower good players.

No, the winner is decided by which team plays the best in that one battle. If you want guaranteed victories then go play a solo game, this is a game of competition, so be a competitor and try to beat people.

View PostKellyspals, on May 02 2019 - 19:45, said:

That is why one team can sweep another in short time. The close battles are equally matched teams, equally good or equally bad. 

No, that's false. It's a myth and you need to let go of it if you want to learn anything. "Sweeps" are caused by the fact that this is a single-death-per-battle game, not by the balance or imbalance between the teams. You obviously don't realize it, but you have seen plenty of sweeps in 40-60, 50-50 and 60-40 battles. The cause of these sweeps is single-death-per-battle, it happens the same way in every SDPB game, not just WoT.



Pipinghot #105 Posted May 05 2019 - 20:52

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View PostUrabouttudie, on May 04 2019 - 08:19, said:

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 03 2019 - 04:52, said:

What part of the patent is in effect at the moment...link?

Anyone want to answer this question?

 

You all seem so sure about which parts of the patent are not implemented...

It's amazing how often you ask questions that are easy to answer (as Neatoman already did), and yet you consistently refuse to learn.


Edited by Pipinghot, May 05 2019 - 20:53.


Pipinghot #106 Posted May 05 2019 - 21:30

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View Postfritzzie, on May 04 2019 - 22:27, said:

we have all had those matches where we feel it's stacked. and we have all had matches where we actually had fun or we wouldn't be here, tho only real issue is the way mm places players... a day with 15 wins and 50 losses. 3k+ damage and still a loss. over and over. people come here to find out why things seem to be going so wrong

That would be great if people would actually listen to, and learn from, the answers, but too many of them don't. What most people really want is to vent and have other people tell them they're right, so they can make excuses for not being good and have those excuses validated. The people who actually want to learn something do, they pay attention to the answers that are provided for them and then they do the work of getting better.

 

If you only pay attention to the answers that make you feel better than you'e not going to learn and improve. This is a game of pure competition, every single battle (above Tier III) is against other human beings, and no one is going to let you win for free. You achieve every victory by standing on the destroyed tanks of your opponents, and the only way that happens is if you listen to the real answers and do the work to get better.

 

And even improving is not enough, you have to improve more than the other people around you. As you continue to play the game and move up through the tiers, so are other people, even bad players are learning and improving as they play the game. So if you want to win more often you have to improve more than other people do, otherwise you'll just keep having the same performance and win rate you always have. Playing WoT is easy, gettting better at it is hard. This is not the kind of game that you can just keep playing until you're good, you have to do the hard work of getting better than other people.

View Postfritzzie, on May 04 2019 - 22:27, said:

not to be trolled for asking and wanting to understand

You're not getting trolled for wanting to understand, and neither is anyone else. No one gets trolled for wanting to understand. Some people do get trolled because they refuse to listen and learn, but people who are honestly trying to learn something (and phrase their posts accordingly) get 99% serious, honest answers.

 

What you are getting is the honest answers to your questions and those honest answers are neither comforting nor easy on the ego. If you want to get better, stop blaming the MM, stop blaming shot dispersion, stop blaming RNG, stop blaming other players - pay attention to the answers that people are giving you and then do the work to improve. If you think that answer is "trolling" then you're never going to get better.

View Postfritzzie, on May 04 2019 - 22:27, said:

we all want to try to be better at the game or we wouldn't be reading this forum

Unfortunately that's not true. There are lots of people who want to blame the game for their failures, who don't want it to be their own fault that they're bad. And there are lots of people who sort-of want to learn, but not if it means they have to work at it, what that groups wants is for someone to provide easy, convenient answers that will magically make them a good player.

 

Both of those groups pollute the forums with tons of garbage, and if you are someone who honestly wants to learn then the first thing you have to do is start ignoring the garbage posters. Ignore the people who want to blame the game, ignore the people who want to make excuses, ignore the people who make garbage post after garbage post full of nonsense and tin foil hat theories.

View Postfritzzie, on May 04 2019 - 22:27, said:

and it seems that rng is stacked to insure the faster win for one side or the other.

Hopefully you're still with me, and we can look at this statement honestly together. Yes, I understand that it "seems" that battles are "stacked". That's how it feels, that's how it seems, the problem here is that sometimes we can trust our feelings and sometimes we can't, you cannot always "trust your gut", and this is one of those times when you can't. The MM doesn't "stack" anything, sometimes you have bad luck and go up against a better team, just like sometimes you can have bad luck rolling dice and you don't get the number you want, but bad luck is not the same thing as "stacking". The MM allows unbalanced teams but it never creates them deliberately. It is critically important that you understand the difference between "allow"ing them and "deliberately create"ing them.

 

The next thing that you need to understand is that you get the same amount of good luck and bad luck, just like every other player in the game. Yes, you get some awful teams, but so does everyone else.You also get some great teams, just like everyone else. And then the large majority of your teams are somewhere in the middle. A majority of the battles you play have odds between 40-60% of winning, which is as balanced as any other game gives you. Even games with skill-balanced matchmaking don't do better than 40-60%. So yeah, you're going to have some battles that you simply can't win, but that happens to everyone, and I mean everyone.

 

Even the very best players in the game, people who are much, much (much) better than you and me, only win about 70% of their battles when they solo-pub (which means they play solo in Random battles). And that's not because of the MM or RNG, that's because of the team size. Even if someone is 4-times as good as you or me, that still means they're only as good as 5 people, but the other team has 15. One person, no matter how good they are, can't beat 15 people, and if that good player gets put on a bad team, and especially if they get put on a bad team and the other team has some good players, well that good player can't win every time.

 

If the best players, people who earn every single victory, can't do better than 70%, why should you or I win more often? Why should we get more victories than we earn with our skill? Everyone loses sometimes, the amount that you lose depends on your skill, just like the amount that you win depends on your skill. If you want to have an above average win rate then you need to be an above average player.

View Postfritzzie, on May 04 2019 - 22:27, said:

to insure the faster win for one side or the other.

That's also a myth that you have to let go of, team momentum is a natural force in single-death-per-battle games, it happens in every SBPB game, not just in WoT. Steamrolls are not caused by team balance, they are not caused by the MM, they are not caused by RNG, they are caused by the one, single, over-riding fact that this is a SDPB game. You know what would be shocking, would be if we didn't have steamrolls, because they just naturally occur in every SDPB game that has ever existed. The real problem is that most games have respawn battles, and most players are used to playing games with respawn battles, so the fundamental logic of SDPB feels weird. You have to learn to accept that "one team winning faster than the other" is exactly what you should expect from a single-death game, until you accept that you can't truly learn about, and understand, WoT.

View Postfritzzie, on May 04 2019 - 22:27, said:

i installed xvm to watch my stats. and help me improve, i could care less about others i play with. but something needs to be done about stacking teams. if your not in a platoon spread the experienced players out more. would be a great start.

That's not what XVM is for, you need to learn how to use the tool properly if you want to benefit from it. XVM is there to give you the opportunity to understand the makeup of the two teams before each battle, and to help you understand the threat level of various opponents, and it lets you customize your GUI so that the elements on the screen can be located where they feel right to you.

 

XVM can tell you if you're improving but it can't 'help you improve', those are not the same thing. If you want to learn how to improve you have to read the wiki or read guides or watch videos or watch streamers or some combination of those things. If you really want to improve start by reading the Battle Mechanics section of the wiki and every time you learn something new play a few battles so that you can practice that new knowledge in actual game play. Then do the same thing with other resources that you read/watch.

View Postfritzzie, on May 04 2019 - 22:27, said:

feel free to troll this..

Speaking of trolling, closing out your post with hostile comments like this just increases the chances that people will ignore you or actually troll you. If you honestly, sincerely want to learn then stop talking about trolling, stop accusing people of trolling, stop including any garbage about trolling in your posts. If you want to learn then ask for help, but if you do it with a chip on your shoulder you're just begging for people to ignore you or mess with you. Put your ego aside, stop with the "trolliing" garbage, be more honest with yourself and pay attention to the answers.






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