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What does WG think pairing 40% win rate players with 50%+ is a good idea?


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dunniteowl #41 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 16:49

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I guess the salient question is:  Are we going to lose YOU, OP?  You have already shown a propensity for exceeding the average with the "crap MM" you seem to hate so much.

 

So.  Gonna stick around or what?

 

 

OvO



anonym_yiQpAku2aIMY #42 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 17:16

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View PostWhineMaker, on Apr 26 2019 - 05:37, said:

Here's a suggestion: Uninstall XVM and pretend everyone is terrible. With this method, you'll never be disappointed ever again... :P

 

^^^^

 

XVM is the real problem here. How about uninstall XVM and focus on your own gameplay? XVM is surely a useful tool but the majority of players do not use it right. I can't understand why some people think that it is a necessity to have XVM in order to have peak performance. It is not necessarily a bad thing to think that, but in my humble opinion there is really no need for it. 



anonym_yiQpAku2aIMY #43 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 17:18

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View PostRosenGrauel, on Apr 26 2019 - 17:16, said:

 

^^^^

 

XVM is the real problem here. How about uninstall XVM and focus on your own gameplay? XVM is surely a useful tool but the majority of players do not use it right. I can't understand why some people think that it is a necessity to have XVM in order to have peak performance. It is not necessarily a bad thing to think that, but in my humble opinion there is really no need for it. 

 

Piggy backing on my self:

 

If you decide to keep XVM and also find that your team is "overmatched" by the enemy team based on winrate/wn8 then you should consider CHAI sniping lol.



Pipinghot #44 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 18:07

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View PostGeoMonster, on Apr 26 2019 - 09:50, said:

I don't advocate skill based MM, but I do advocate skill BALANCED matchmaking (balance on PR).

What is it that you think skill balancing would accomplish, what specific benefits are you looking for?



Waylandie #45 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 18:11

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View Postgingerted91, on Apr 26 2019 - 15:58, said:

 

Gonna stop you right there.  True offers of assistance still exist.

Unfortunately, there is no desire for anyone to learn the game anymore (or change their bad habits) and that is the problem here mate.  Between: hacks, cheats, rigged MM, rng, stat padders, XVM, blowouts, and SBMM, etc they have a ready set of excuses to not own their play and put absolutely no effort into learning; and substantial effort into tin foil hat "theories" and "solutions" to fix the game that include all an sundry OTHER than learning the game.

There are teachers but no students...

Case in point... (was abused in game chat for having the last few feet of the gun barrel sticking out of a bush)
 

gingerted91 (2:38:27 PM) fyi mate, the barrel is not a visibility checkpoint...

gingerted91 (2:38:31 PM) http://wiki.wargamin...checkpoints.png

Xxxxxxx (2:47:28 PM) Sorry..,. but yes it is... it the barrel is sticking out of a bush... then ur tank is less than 5 m behind the bush

gingerted91 (2:48:46 PM) that was the point i needed to see though the bush to have a chance to out spot them...

gingerted91 (2:49:27 PM) give up on your assumptions mate and learn the mechanics to improve

gingerted91 (2:49:40 PM) just trying to help you out..

gingerted91 (2:49:51 PM) good luck out there

Xxxxxxx (2:55:31 PM) ok... I'll play my way... u play urs

gingerted91 (2:59:42 PM) Sure mate. Why take advice from someone with double your PR, who wins more than 50% of the time...

gingerted91 (3:00:48 PM) not that i write wot articles or teach/train my clanmates or anything

gingerted91 (3:01:08 PM) good luck frank!

Xxxxxxx (3:03:57 PM) bacvk at ya

 

 

While you are correct that the barrel is not a checkpoint, he is also correct that you're not getting cover from the bush.  If you can see through the bush and fire you will be spotted, now if your just spotting and backing up until the bush is solid before firing you're chance of being spotted is reduced.   I personally think that the spotting mechanics in this game is one of the most poorly understood features.

GeoMonster #46 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 18:25

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View PostRosenGrauel, on Apr 26 2019 - 10:16, said:

 

^^^^

 

XVM is the real problem here. How about uninstall XVM and focus on your own gameplay? XVM is surely a useful tool but the majority of players do not use it right. I can't understand why some people think that it is a necessity to have XVM in order to have peak performance. It is not necessarily a bad thing to think that, but in my humble opinion there is really no need for it. 

 

Do you really know all that XVM provides?  Or are you only looking at 5% of it?

GeoMonster #47 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 18:28

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View PostPipinghot, on Apr 26 2019 - 11:07, said:

What is it that you think skill balancing would accomplish, what specific benefits are you looking for?

 

More competitive matches where the teams are better balanced skill-wise.  Less frustration with the MM at times.  Balance the teams more evenly and then a single player can have more of an impact on the game rather than playing lights-out and getting stomped.

 

Something along that line. 

 

MM is getting better over the years, it just needs to continue to evolve.



FrreeeBird #48 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 18:36

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WG won't use skill based MM because they make more money off of imbalanced matches. The more frustrated a player is, within reasonable limits, the more likey they are to spend $$$ on premium time, shells, premium vehicles, etc. to advance past whatever pain point they might be stuck at, be it a certain tier, a certain tank, etc.



Altwar #49 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 18:38

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View PostRosenGrauel, on Apr 26 2019 - 08:16, said:

XVM is the real problem here. How about uninstall XVM and focus on your own gameplay? XVM is surely a useful tool but the majority of players do not use it right. I can't understand why some people think that it is a necessity to have XVM in order to have peak performance. It is not necessarily a bad thing to think that, but in my humble opinion there is really no need for it. 

 

A rather odd statement when surely you have no idea how whether a majority, minority, half of SPG players, all of light tank players or any composition there of actually use XVM.  There are some concepts based upon accusations of who uses it and how, but you, as one player really don't know, even if you have a consensus of 50 of your friends in the game.  

 

So getting past that, how in your opinion, are players supposed to use XVM correctly.  Do you have some sort of guide or a set of rules that you can share that maybe some players, having read this conversation, can benefit from?



GeoMonster #50 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 19:04

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View PostRosenGrauel, on Apr 26 2019 - 10:16, said:

 

^^^^

 

XVM is the real problem here. How about uninstall XVM and focus on your own gameplay? XVM is surely a useful tool but the majority of players do not use it right. I can't understand why some people think that it is a necessity to have XVM in order to have peak performance. It is not necessarily a bad thing to think that, but in my humble opinion there is really no need for it. 

 

How about KEEP XVM and FOCUS on ones gameplay?  Why can't people do both?  Why so much hatred?

gingerted91 #51 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 19:18

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View PostWaylandie, on Apr 26 2019 - 18:11, said:

 

While you are correct that the barrel is not a checkpoint, he is also correct that you're not getting cover from the bush.  If you can see through the bush and fire you will be spotted, now if your just spotting and backing up until the bush is solid before firing you're chance of being spotted is reduced.   I personally think that the spotting mechanics in this game is one of the most poorly understood features.

 

Thanks, quite familiar with the mechanic (had bush cover with camo to spot (not fire) and back up).

 

The point was; I tried to help, he blew it off, illustrating my point that most want excuses not homework...


Edited by gingerted91, Apr 26 2019 - 19:19.


madogthefirst #52 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 19:19

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View PostGeoMonster, on Apr 26 2019 - 10:04, said:

 

How about KEEP XVM and FOCUS on ones gameplay?  Why can't people do both?  Why so much hatred?

Because if they could ignore XVM they wouldn't be on here with teary eyes complaining about how bad their team is.



gingerted91 #53 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 19:28

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View PostGeoMonster, on Apr 26 2019 - 19:04, said:

 

How about KEEP XVM and FOCUS on ones gameplay?  Why can't people do both?  Why so much hatred?

 

Come on, it's a well established fact that XVM changes players game play (normally to their detriment), otherwise why have it?

 

Waylandie #54 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 19:40

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View Postgingerted91, on Apr 26 2019 - 19:18, said:

 

Thanks, quite familiar with the mechanic (had bush cover with camo to spot (not fire) and back up).

 

The point was; I tried to help, he blew it off, illustrating my point that most want excuses not homework...

 

I get that you were trying to help, and I'm sorry the guy was being a tool in chat.   Just saying he probably understood the mechanic, and that is why he was abusing you in chat.  Probably his way of offering criticism, not saying it's the correct way but that was clearly someone that wasn't worth your time.  My experience is that almost nobody takes criticism in this game well, especially during a match.

Pipinghot #55 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 21:25

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View PostGeoMonster, on Apr 26 2019 - 12:28, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Apr 26 2019 - 11:07, said:

What is it that you think skill balancing would accomplish, what specific benefits are you looking for?

More competitive matches where the teams are better balanced skill-wise.

Those are lovely phrases, "More competitive", "better balanced", but what actual affect do you think would have on how the game plays, or the outcome of the battles?

 

The reason I'm asking for more info from you is that earlier in the thread you said, "How is that going to stop the blow-outs?  The BLOW-OUTS cause the disappointment!" If you think that skill balancing the teams will stop the blow outs, it won't. This is a single-death-per-battle game, which means that blow outs will always be common, no matter what skills there are on the two teams. They happen in pubs, they happen in Skirmishes, they happen in Clan Wars, it doesn't matter whether the players are more skilled, less skilled, balance teams, unbalanced teams, blow outs are just a natural consequence of single-death games, it happens in all single-death games, not just WoT. So if you think that "More competitive" means stopping blow outs, it doesn't. And if you think that "better balanced" means stopping blowouts, it doesn't.

View PostGeoMonster, on Apr 26 2019 - 12:28, said:

Less frustration with the MM at times.

This game is pure PvP, half of the players are going to lose, and that means no matter what the MM does there's going to be frustration. Every PvP game I've ever seen involves a lot of frustration and a lot of people complaining about match ups, no matter what method the MM uses. The only thing that actually creates less frustration is having a PvE game mode where people can blow off steam by beating AI players programmed to make them feel better.

View PostGeoMonster, on Apr 26 2019 - 12:28, said:

Balance the teams more evenly and then a single player can have more of an impact on the game rather than playing lights-out and getting stomped.

That's entirely untrue. Even if ithey balance the teams like you suggest, the bad players are still bad, there are still players on the other team that are going to stomp their lights out. Most battles in WoT are decided by the top 3-5 players on each team, the top 3-5 accomplish as much as the bottom 10-12 added together. If the top 3-5 on Team B do better than the top 3-5 on Team A then Team B wins. Sometimes you'll get a battle where most of the players on a team contribute fairly evenly, but not very often. If the only thing you do is shift the players between the teams so that both teams have the same mixture of good & bad players that won't change at all, the teams will still win or lose based on the top 3-5 players. The only thing that would be accomplished by balancing teams is that the win rates of nearly every player in the game would become average, with only a few players at the top and bottom having win rates that are noticeably above or below the average.

 

But what wouldn't change is blow out stomps. Being a single-death game means that team momentum always matters, and steamrolls woudn't really change with team balancing.


Edited by Pipinghot, Apr 26 2019 - 21:26.


GeoMonster #56 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 21:32

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View Postmadogthefirst, on Apr 26 2019 - 12:19, said:

Because if they could ignore XVM they wouldn't be on here with teary eyes complaining about how bad their team is.

 

Really?  So many people complain about unbalanced teams and blowouts without using XVM.  I guess they are liars.

GeoMonster #57 Posted Apr 26 2019 - 21:34

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View Postgingerted91, on Apr 26 2019 - 12:28, said:

 

Come on, it's a well established fact that XVM changes players game play (normally to their detriment), otherwise why have it?

 

Oh ... I missed that and never saw that factual information documented anywhere.  My bad.  I really didn't realized that using XVM makes players worse off!  Thanks for the update.



NeatoMan #58 Posted Apr 27 2019 - 18:31

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View PostGeoMonster, on Apr 26 2019 - 12:28, said:

 Balance the teams more evenly and then a single player can have more of an impact on the game rather than playing lights-out and getting stomped.

oh i don't think many players would be too happy if they earned wins based on their contributions to battle.  Many players would be sorely disappointed, and would be clamoring for the days of a random MM to be brought back.

 

Let's look at what would happen if players got wins commensurate with their performance. 

 

two players: a unicum vs a tomato.  These are typical results for players of their respective caliber.   It shows how often they win based on their contributions to battle, as well as how often they contribute and how much. 

 

 

The unicum (top) has a low contribution game ~18% of the time.  Let's say he loses all of those (you know... having more impact on the battles means bad games should lead to losses, and good games should lead to wins), and splits his average games 50:50.  He ends up losing only 33% of the time.  He would have a 67% win rate if all his good games led to wins.  As it is he only wins 60% of the time in a random MM.

 

 

The tomato (bottom) has a low contribution game ~60% of the time.  Let's say he loses those, and splits his average games 50:50.  He ends up losing 75% of the time.  He would have a 25% win rate.  He currently wins 44% of the time in a random MM.

 

I really don't think many people would like it if their individual contributions really did have more of a direct impact on the outcome.  The forums would explode.



Exiledcrow #59 Posted Apr 27 2019 - 18:35

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View PostHardball1911, on Apr 26 2019 - 09:07, said:

 

 

As for me, I'm quite content continuing to push and learn at my own pace, even occasionally resorting to the old tried and true tactic of being the intentional hindrance and annoyance. At least on this account. "Oh, great, more tomato soup!" should be "GLHF". Your stats don't mean anything, especially if you are a crappy human being. 

 

 

Stats CANNOT be done away with as playing generates them AND they do mean something as they are literally your record of what you've done IN GAME, you could be a great player but a crappy person,  but that's not a job for stats to decide.



AnArmyofBun #60 Posted Apr 27 2019 - 18:46

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View PostXxXxMaximusxXxX, on Apr 25 2019 - 21:16, said:

It generates toxicity and frustration amongst players who want to do well in the game. This game is in need of a system similar to League of Legends, where based on your performance you get tiered with players similiar to you (Bronze players with Bronze players, Silver players with Silver players, Gold with Gold, etc). Why do they place you with 11 or sometimes even 14 other players who have no hope of doing anything useful other than dying, sitting in a corner all game, or in general being useless. "Random matchmaking" should not include placing a team of all 40% winrate vs 6 unicums, its miserable for the lower win rate players and will generate anger and frustration for them (specially if its 10-20 losses in a row).

 

WG, you've probably lost a lot of players thanks to your matchmaker.

OP in response to your thread title I give you this.  The answer to your question.

 






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