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1.6 German Heavy Changes - Retier Them!

tiger II germany heavy tanks e-100 heavies

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awarfield #1 Posted May 08 2019 - 07:18

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In light of WG announcing plans to buff the Tiger II/E-110 branch in 1.6+, I feel now is the time to dust off the old retier suggestion for the German heavies.  People have been talking about this idea for years, on account of the fact that the German heavies (especially tigers) don't really live up to their monstrous historical reputation.  Whether this attitude is on account of propaganda, the tanks (or lack thereof) tigers faced, or the legacy of the wehraboos, the German heavies are not "monstrous" as it stands in WOT today.

 

While the line still boasts accurate guns and healthy DPM overall, making for great support/assault tanks (which is fairly accurate to the role tigers played IRL), they still struggle in front line engagements against the usual suspects: Japanese heavies, Soviet premiums, and the like.

 

By moving most of the tanks in the line down a tier and balancing them to fit in that tier, we increase the value of their (generally) historical stats, and make them more potent in-game.

 

How does/could this look:

Spoiler

 

Sorry for the long post, but what do you think?  Is this a good/viable plan?  Would this really make the German heavies better?  What would you do differently? Should historical values be forgotten about in favor of gameplay?  Do you like German heavies? Hate them? Does this post make me a wehraboo?



FrozenKemp #2 Posted May 08 2019 - 12:30

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I can't comment on the new tanks you mention but down-tiering most of the line is exactly what is needed. It will make their armour more relevant. 

madogthefirst #3 Posted May 08 2019 - 12:32

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View Postawarfield, on May 07 2019 - 22:18, said:

In light of WG announcing plans to buff the Tiger II/E-110 branch in 1.6+, I feel now is the time to dust off the old retier suggestion for the German heavies.  People have been talking about this idea for years, on account of the fact that the German heavies (especially tigers) don't really live up to their monstrous historical reputation.  Whether this attitude is on account of propaganda, the tanks (or lack thereof) tigers faced, or the legacy of the wehraboos, the German heavies are not "monstrous" as it stands in WOT today.

 

While the line still boasts accurate guns and healthy DPM overall, making for great support/assault tanks (which is fairly accurate to the role tigers played IRL), they still struggle in front line engagements against the usual suspects: Japanese heavies, Soviet premiums, and the like.

 

By moving most of the tanks in the line down a tier and balancing them to fit in that tier, we increase the value of their (generally) historical stats, and make them more potent in-game.

 

How does/could this look:

Spoiler

 

Sorry for the long post, but what do you think?  Is this a good/viable plan?  Would this really make the German heavies better?  What would you do differently? Should historical values be forgotten about in favor of gameplay?  Do you like German heavies? Hate them? Does this post make me a wehraboo?

I'm going to need a link to those planned buffs.


Edited by madogthefirst, May 08 2019 - 12:32.


Cowcat137 #4 Posted May 08 2019 - 13:53

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Tigers and Panthers ( ! ) are both over tiered, in my opinion. However at this point in time, after all the fake tanks and impossible engineering that they've integrated (Japanese mobile bunkers, Russian tanks with massive armor that somehow weighs nothing) they could just as easily  set aside the historic Tiger values and just buff them. 

I'd like to see some non WWII tier tens like the Up armored Leopard IA4 and the 152 mm MBT-70 or the T-55AM.  As it is there are way too many, very similar box tanks which were all derived from 1942 Hitler fantasies.



jairogut #5 Posted May 08 2019 - 22:08

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Tiger 1 is perfect as it is now.. Please leave it in Tier 7 with that super DPM

Cheshil #6 Posted May 09 2019 - 19:18

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View Postjairogut, on May 08 2019 - 15:08, said:

Tiger 1 is perfect as it is now.. Please leave it in Tier 7 with that super DPM

 

The DPM nerf when down tiered is implied. he want the armor profile to be down tiered. that's the point.

Cheshil #7 Posted May 09 2019 - 19:32

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The e100 turret plate doesnt need 285mm ffs, that is insane. that would make the effective thickness 320mm WITHOUT angling the turret.

Turret changes: i would say it would have 260mm (from OG 250mm) at most for the buff, and then buff the side turret armor (from 150mm to 180mm)for more effective angling.

Hull: Then for the LFP and the side armor under the skirt, i would buff them both 10mm. and see what happens.

 

Gun changes: 15cm= 1st suggestion. 850 alpha damage, 246 penetration. (raise the alpha damage to give a single reason to play the E100 over the 60TP.

                                    2nd suggestion. 750 alpha damage, 265 penetration. (raise the penetration over the 60TP because it never should have been more than the e100 to begin with.)

 



DerJager #8 Posted May 12 2019 - 06:21

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Id say the changes don't go far enough. There's plenty of tanks with invincible turrets, that's nothing new.

Considering the LFP alone is more than double the area of all frontal weak spots on some tanks, the LFP on its own is plenty of weak spots.

It should also be able to hold 30km/hr over most terrain and slight inclines;it's trading armor for maneuverability. The sides and rear are the weak spots.

And if it's dug in too well, then you're approaching the problem the wrong way. Not every problem is a nail, and a hammer isn't your only tool. You only think it is if you're stupid.



Really it needs pen more than anything other than the turret armor. 260 is about bare minimum anymore; hell, it's gold rounds ought to be kicked up to 330 and 360mm.

MCBAIN4EVER #9 Posted May 12 2019 - 06:48

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Too good to be real.



BlackAngelCom #10 Posted May 12 2019 - 20:16

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View PostYANKEE137, on May 08 2019 - 13:53, said:

Tigers and Panthers ( ! ) are both over tiered, in my opinion. However at this point in time, after all the fake tanks and impossible engineering that they've integrated (Japanese mobile bunkers, Russian tanks with massive armor that somehow weighs nothing) they could just as easily  set aside the historic Tiger values and just buff them. 

I'd like to see some non WWII tier tens like the Up armored Leopard IA4 and the 152 mm MBT-70 or the T-55AM.  As it is there are way too many, very similar box tanks which were all derived from 1942 Hitler fantasies.

 

The heavy fiction has removed any argument against giving the E-100 a Henschel turret like the preceding two tanks and the VK 4502 b. 






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