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Nerf SPGs

Artillery SPG Remove Annoying

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Poll: Do SPG's make WOT less fun? (66 members have cast votes)

Do SPG's make wot less fun?

  1. Yes (28 votes [42.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.42%

  2. No (38 votes [57.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.58%

Are the games without arty more exciting?

  1. Yes (25 votes [37.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.88%

  2. No (41 votes [62.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.12%

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SquishySupreme #21 Posted May 17 2019 - 08:21

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As I previously stated, some people just want to whine and complain about artillery.  It doesn't matter if it's nerfed 2, 3, 4, or even 20(yes, literally 20!) times, no amount of changes will ever be enough, as what they really want is for it to be removed entirely, despite calling it "changes" or "re-balancing".  To them, it is a big nasty spider in the corner of the kitchen and they will literally burn the place down to get at it if they have to.

It hasn't even been a month since the last major nerf.  

Learn to play the game as intended or just play blitz.  

leeuniverse #22 Posted May 17 2019 - 20:48

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View PostBadCorps, on May 16 2019 - 07:58, said:

1. You want a 440 alpha against a Maus with 6000 health?

2. How about ELC EVEN 90s or EBR FL 10s. A 240mm (nearly 1/3 of a metre) shell should do considerable damage to a tank with 150mm

3.Because they're heavy and many are infantry. Apparently you want a A39 Tortoise driving at 65 kph and EBRs tat 500

4. You want that glorious ~4000 alpha on the T92 HMC back? You b!tched about that too.

5. Hell no. It already has a moderate wait time. You don't want to wait 5 minutes for a battle because you to wait for matchmaking has to put 1 arty in every match

 

1. All other tanks have more HP too, tell me how that's a problem?  The biggest complaint of this game is the "quick death", I'm fixing that issue.

2. Yes yes, but it's not good for game play.  Plus, not saying the rounds can't do "more" damage to weak tanks, just they need to do MUCH LESS.  Full HP derping needs to be GONE!

3. Stop being stupid...  Buffing speeds some, especially in power/acceleration isn't going to be some "end of the world" thing.  In other words, no a Tortoise will not go 65 kph.

4. Did I say that?  Nope.  I want Arty to be properly ACCURATE, but do around max 300 Damage per shot, and also for HE to be normalized more (i.e. no more 15 damage shots) as well as no more "bouncing" of HE rounds.

5. Like I said, with my other things done 2 arty per side might be okay then.  Wait time won't be that big of a deal partially because people will be happy playing tanks more also.

 

View PostAltwar, on May 16 2019 - 08:20, said:

  1.  Because tanks need to exhaust their ammo supply on just one or two tanks, which could happen if HP levels were boosted?
  2. What determined that the damage number for the largest guns in the game should be among the least amount tier for tier based upon that 300?
  3. Most tanks are too slow by what metric?  Real or imagined?  Considering that most tanks of the mid 20th Century weren't exactly speed demons.
  4. Why should stun be removed?  Does it damage your sensibilities?  After this last update, in my experience, the stun mechanic is hardly noticeable and just something to shrug off at most.
  5. There should be no SPG limits.  Players want to play them, hence their substantial queue.  Remove the limits and you'll have more battles with more SPGs and more with none at all because the queue is being flushed out more often.

 

What you see as a problem isn't necessarily so with others, just in case that wasn't clear.

 

1. Ya, like Wargaming can't increase ammo loadouts.  It's just "too hard" to do. :amazed:

2. What determines it is simply game enjoyment.  People don't like getting hit by arty for massive and continuous damage that they can't respond to, so I'm fixing it.

3. They are too slow because they can't try to "dodge" arty shots some.  They are also too slow that they can't dodge shots period, as well as pop out and shoot, etc.  The point is to give people more control over their survivability.

4. I don't know, being completely incapacitated forever isn't a good thing, especially when you're usually hit by it when you're facing the enemy thus it's just as bad as the high damage arty shots, if not worse, because you end up killed by it also.  If they want stun, it needs to work like it does at the lower tiers.  Otherwise, nobody wanted it, save .001% weirdos like you.

5. It will balance out.  The que will be slightly longer initially, but people will be happier playing tanks, and so the que will lessen, and it won't be that big of a deal.  The point is to improve the game for the arty player, so he has more food to eat, and the game isn't so short so he wasn't able to do his part, and also improve the game for the tanker so they aren't bombarded by arty as much, and also their game will be longer and more enjoyable.

 

Actually, almost everyone has these problems with Arty both as players and as Tankers.

I'm fixing those problems for both...  You not caring is not the same as the majority not having the problems, just in case that wasn't clear.

Or are you in denial about the biggest symptom complaint of the game?



XturbohawkX #23 Posted May 17 2019 - 21:13

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They've nerfed the living crap out arties more than ANY other tank class...but the whiners still whine.
 


BadCorps #24 Posted May 17 2019 - 21:58

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View PostXturbohawkX, on May 17 2019 - 21:13, said:

They've nerfed the living crap out arties more than ANY other tank class...but the whiners still whine.
 

 

And they will keep whining, and whining, and whining, and whining...

BadCorps #25 Posted May 17 2019 - 22:08

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View Postleeuniverse, on May 17 2019 - 20:48, said:

 

1. All other tanks have more HP too, tell me how that's a problem?  The biggest complaint of this game is the "quick death", I'm fixing that issue. Then don't suck. Block more damage and avoid fire more. ANTICIPATE. Don't drive in a straight line.

2. Yes yes, but it's not good for game play.  Plus, not saying the rounds can't do "more" damage to weak tanks, just they need to do MUCH LESS.  Full HP derping needs to be GONE! 20mm of roof armour versus a 240mm HE shell traveling at 460m/s at a 45° angle? Who's going to win? 300 damage max would be terrible and why would that be fair if a 60TP can do 750?

3. Stop being stupid...  Buffing speeds some, especially in power/acceleration isn't going to be some "end of the world" thing.  In other words, no a Tortoise will not go 65 kph. Great that means that EBRs will get even BETTER accerleration and top speed. Remember the boosts? And arty woudl get that buff too. Just so you understand what you're summoning. M53/55 now traveling 65 kph and the T92 HMC at 45 would definitely f*ck up counterbattery attempts

4. Did I say that?  Nope.  I want Arty to be properly ACCURATE, but do around max 300 Damage per shot, and also for HE to be normalized more (i.e. no more 15 damage shots) as well as no more "bouncing" of HE rounds. That's a terrible idea. HE was designed to explode immediately upon contact. Normailisation would not help it. So arty gets max damage every shot? I'm down for that.

5. Like I said, with my other things done 2 arty per side might be okay then.  Wait time won't be that big of a deal partially because people will be happy playing tanks more also. Like who?



leeuniverse #26 Posted May 18 2019 - 01:53

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View PostXturbohawkX, on May 17 2019 - 13:13, said:

They've nerfed the living crap out arties more than ANY other tank class...but the whiners still whine.

 

That's because they are nerfing/buffing the wrong things.

They should buff:

- Arty Accuracy so arty players can be happy.

- Increase Tank HP so arty players can be happy since they won't get screwed due to so many games being so short, and make tankers happy that they aren't killed so quick

- HE normalized more, no more 15 damage shots, and also remove bounces.

Nerf:

- Arty Damage, does max 300 per shot to any tank

- Arty shot Indicator (when round is coming at you)

 

.... and much more I would do to buff things

 

BTW, the accuracy, damage per shot, and Shot Indicator alone made Arty in Armored Warfare great as players, and tolerable as tankers.

 

View PostBadCorps, on May 17 2019 - 14:08, said:

Then don't suck. Block more damage and avoid fire more. ANTICIPATE. Don't drive in a straight line.
20mm of roof armour versus a 240mm HE shell traveling at 460m/s at a 45° angle? Who's going to win? 300 damage max would be terrible and why would that be fair if a 60TP can do 750?
Great that means that EBRs will get even BETTER accerleration and top speed. Remember the boosts? And arty woudl get that buff too. Just so you understand what you're summoning. M53/55 now traveling 65 kph and the T92 HMC at 45 would definitely f*ck up counterbattery attempts
That's a terrible idea. HE was designed to explode immediately upon contact. Normailisation would not help it. So arty gets max damage every shot? I'm down for that.
Like who?

 

1. Someone who's a WAY WORSE player telling me to "not suck".  LOL  One thing has nothing to do with the other guy.  Focus on substance not personal attacks.  Have an argument instead?

2. I'm talking gameplay enjoyment, not realism.  If you want realism you should be playing a different game anyway.  In my game balancing only TD's do around 700, Heavy's do around 3-400.

3. Yes.  The boost needed to last longer.  Yes, Arty should be faster also so they can defend themselves better.  LOL no...  I'm talking "improved" speeds for most tanks, not some "extreme" like you are saying.  Why do people who don't have logical arguments always go to the extreme to try and make their case?  So no, an Arty won't be going "65 kph", save maybe the FV304 again.  And no, the T92 HMC will not be going "45".

4. What I mean by normalization is no more Zero damage or 15 damage shots.  I get Armor affecting normalization, but that's just stupid levels.  An arty shot should do at least 80-100 against the best of armor.  I didn't say "max damage every shot", I said normalized more.  Well, I'm at least glad you're "down" for something that will make the game more enjoyable for both Arty players and Tankers (though you really didn't say anything good that I'm improving for tankers).

5. Like who?  Simple, people who want to play tanks but are so pissed off by it due to arty they either leave the game, or play arty themselves more then they might.  Also, other changes I'll be making will make tanking more attractive, such as much better RNG, better gun performance, better tank speeds (so people can perform per their skill instead of playing a crap tank, etc. etc.).

 

 



tanopasman62 #27 Posted May 18 2019 - 02:05

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View Postleeuniverse, on May 18 2019 - 01:53, said:

 

That's because they are nerfing/buffing the wrong things.

They should buff:

- Arty Accuracy so arty players can be happy.

- Increase Tank HP so arty players can be happy since they won't get screwed due to so many games being so short, and make tankers happy that they aren't killed so quick

- HE normalized more, no more 15 damage shots, and also remove bounces.

Nerf:

- Arty Damage, does max 300 per shot to any tank

- Arty shot Indicator (when round is coming at you)

 

.... and much more I would do to buff things

 

BTW, the accuracy, damage per shot, and Shot Indicator alone made Arty in Armored Warfare great as players, and tolerable as tankers.

 

 

1. Someone who's a WAY WORSE player telling me to "not suck".  LOL

2. I'm talking gameplay enjoyment, not realism.  If you want realism you should be playing a different game anyway.  In my game balancing only TD's do around 700, Heavy's do around 3-400.

3. Yes.  The boost needed to last longer.  Yes, Arty should be faster also so they can defend themselves better.  LOL no...  I'm talking "improved" speeds for most tanks, not some "extreme" like you are saying.  Why do people who don't have logical arguments always go to the extreme to try and make their case?  So no, an Arty won't be going "65 kph", save maybe the FV304 again.  And no, the T92 HMC will not be going "45".

4. What I mean by normalization is no more Zero damage or 15 damage shots.  I get Armor affecting normalization, but that's just stupid levels.  An arty shot should do at least 80-100 against the best of armor.  I didn't say "max damage every shot", I said normalized more.  Well, I'm at least glad you're "down" for something that will make the game more enjoyable for both Arty players and Tankers (though you really didn't say anything good that I'm improving for tankers).

5. Like who?  Simple, people who want to play tanks but are so pissed off by it due to arty they either leave the game, or play arty themselves more then they might.  Also, other changes I'll be making will make tanking more attractive, such as much better RNG, better gun performance, better tank speeds (so people can perform per their skill instead of playing a crap tank, etc. etc.).

 

 

 

Mind explaining why a 240mm shell should do less damage than a T-62A?

leeuniverse #28 Posted May 18 2019 - 02:07

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View Posttanopasman62, on May 17 2019 - 18:05, said:

Mind explaining why a 240mm shell should do less damage than a T-62A?

 

Like I said already, gameplay enjoyment...

You do know there are MANY aspects to this game that aren't "realistic" including shell damages?

So, how would making arty damage tolerable for tankers be some "great evil" to "realism"?

 

Further, some of you all make me laugh that you're being critical of my suggestions, as IF I'm "hurting" arty.

I'm actually making arty BETTER...

- Decent Accuracy like any other tank

- Longer games so the Arty player can do their part instead of as current many games are too short and so the arty player get's screwed out of doing their damage.

- Less Arty players, so the Arty player has more food to eat for himself instead of it all being taken by other arty players.

- HE normalized more, so Arty player again get's more damage instead of screwed when good shots give crap or no damage.

 

All WINS...!



dunniteowl #29 Posted May 18 2019 - 16:57

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How's that poll going, OP?

 


FYI, fun fact, every poll -- and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE -- on these forums has failed to elicit a majority response in terms of anti-SPG over pro-SPG no matter how many times the same overall poll has been presented, painted, touched-up or pitched.

 

Also, fun fact, WG indicates that about 85% of the player base really doesn't have a strong opinion about arty, one way or the other.

 

Funnily enough, you put those two fun facts together and you know what you get?  Logically speaking, you get an idea that the anti-SPG folks, while loudly, vociferously VOCAL in their antipathy to arty ARE A SMALL MINORITY of the overall player base and, as such, constitute no large (even if they are loud) voice in the matter.  You also can infer that WG understands this and, as such, will not accede to your requests as it is not economically feasible to do so -- too many paying players like their arty enough to play it regularly (also around 85% of the player base -- those who own tend to also play the units, ain't that funny) such that to drop it out and make all the adjustments necessary to make all those now unhappy people happy isn't worth the Few the Unhappy Few they would make happy in the process.

 

In short, the scales are not in your favor.  And, while I recognize that the forums are but a small percentage of the total of the player base population, I feel that the laws of averages being what they are, they DO represent a respectably accurate snapshot of the entire aggregate of the player base as a whole.

 

 

This game came with Arty firmly in mind from the very get-go.  What the Anti-SPG crowd is asking for amounts to folks asking to have the Knight removed from Chess, or to have the Catcher removed from the baseball lineup -- or maybe to have the Goalie removed from Football (soccer for us US citz).

 

An above poster had it well, it's like asking for part of the puzzle to be removed instead of solved for you.  Do you really think the Rubik's Cube would benefit from only five colors on it?  Or should there only be four rings to the Olympic circles on the flag?  These are the sorts of analogies I can draw up that make about as much sense as those players asking for Arty to be removed or further degraded into what would then definitely be a very sorry joke.

 

Instead of all this effort and energy applied to something you can't remove, why not simply adapt to it, recognize it's part of the game and if it still irks, make it about as irksome as getting those maps you don't like, dealing with those up-tier units you hate, adapting to the fact that there are WVs on the other side and your team has none.  These are the sorts of challenges that, once overcome or adapted to, bring a richer, deeper and more challenging prospect to the game play in the first place.

 

And all the Anti-SPG crowd is doing, really, is asking for the game to made more simple so that they can do better thereby.  Everything that is added to the 'arguments' amount to nothing more than rationalizations to justify their position that they would rather have the game be made more simple.

 

 

So much hate for a piece of the game and, by extension, many times over, for those that play it.  Sure, it's a war game, but heaven forfend we make it with elements of luck, skill, randomness, variety, unpredictable mixes of people or anything like that.  We demand ORDER and SIMPLICITY so that we can have CONTROL!!

 

And, perhaps -- just perhaps -- the reason the game has such appeal is that it appeals to a wider and much more diverse set of people than just that small, approximately half of 15% (7.5% as a guess) subgroup who are avowed Anti-SPG folks for whom nothing less than its complete removal will suffice?

 

 

The outcome of all these anti-spg polls, it would seem, supports the premise that SPGs are, if not welcome, certainly tolerated to a high degree by the vast majority of the player base.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



tanopasman62 #30 Posted May 18 2019 - 18:15

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View Postleeuniverse, on May 18 2019 - 02:07, said:

 

Like I said already, gameplay enjoyment...

You do know there are MANY aspects to this game that aren't "realistic" including shell damages?

So, how would making arty damage tolerable for tankers be some "great evil" to "realism"?

 

Further, some of you all make me laugh that you're being critical of my suggestions, as IF I'm "hurting" arty.

I'm actually making arty BETTER...

- Decent Accuracy like any other tank

- Longer games so the Arty player can do their part instead of as current many games are too short and so the arty player get's screwed out of doing their damage.

- Less Arty players, so the Arty player has more food to eat for himself instead of it all being taken by other arty players.

- HE normalized more, so Arty player again get's more damage instead of screwed when good shots give crap or no damage.

 

All WINS...!

 

I don't see the relation between capping the damage and having a higher damage output, you would have no reason to play any arty over the BC 155 58 if you're gonna do the same damage regardless of caliber. Arty is fine as is, buy keep whining so they bring AP shells back.

BadCorps #31 Posted May 18 2019 - 18:44

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View Postleeuniverse, on May 18 2019 - 01:53, said:

 

That's because they are nerfing/buffing the wrong things.

They should buff:

- Arty Accuracy so arty players can be happy.

- Increase Tank HP so arty players can be happy since they won't get screwed due to so many games being so short, and make tankers happy that they aren't killed so quick

- HE normalized more, no more 15 damage shots, and also remove bounces.

Nerf:

- Arty Damage, does max 300 per shot to any tank

- Arty shot Indicator (when round is coming at you)

 

.... and much more I would do to buff things

 

BTW, the accuracy, damage per shot, and Shot Indicator alone made Arty in Armored Warfare great as players, and tolerable as tankers.

 

 

1. Someone who's a WAY WORSE player telling me to "not suck".  LOL  One thing has nothing to do with the other guy.  Focus on substance not personal attacks.  Have an argument instead?

2. I'm talking gameplay enjoyment, not realism.  If you want realism you should be playing a different game anyway.  In my game balancing only TD's do around 700, Heavy's do around 3-400.

3. Yes.  The boost needed to last longer.  Yes, Arty should be faster also so they can defend themselves better.  LOL no...  I'm talking "improved" speeds for most tanks, not some "extreme" like you are saying.  Why do people who don't have logical arguments always go to the extreme to try and make their case?  So no, an Arty won't be going "65 kph", save maybe the FV304 again.  And no, the T92 HMC will not be going "45".

4. What I mean by normalization is no more Zero damage or 15 damage shots.  I get Armor affecting normalization, but that's just stupid levels.  An arty shot should do at least 80-100 against the best of armor.  I didn't say "max damage every shot", I said normalized more.  Well, I'm at least glad you're "down" for something that will make the game more enjoyable for both Arty players and Tankers (though you really didn't say anything good that I'm improving for tankers).

5. Like who?  Simple, people who want to play tanks but are so pissed off by it due to arty they either leave the game, or play arty themselves more then they might.  Also, other changes I'll be making will make tanking more attractive, such as much better RNG, better gun performance, better tank speeds (so people can perform per their skill instead of playing a crap tank, etc. etc.).

 

 

 

1. I have worse stats, but I play for free. I've only got reward tanks and Xmas special tanks in my garage. I suck, but I don't lose money.

2. The game has a small element of realism, larger calibre = larger damage (usually).

3. What the hell can an arty w/ a 40 second reload do if some T49 pops in the base after they fire? Drive away? Shells are faster than tanks (unless it's a EBR). That last resort moment of backing up and locking on to the enemy that wants free kills is not fun. You know you're f^cked either way.

4. At that rate, the T92 HMC (rolling max damage on every shot and hitting and max crew, prem consumables, Bonds equipment) w/ your "double HP" could take down a IS-7 in just over 1860 seconds.

5. People get pissed at arty because they can't shoot their 50% gold loadout at it after it hits them. :arta:



Elevendy #32 Posted May 19 2019 - 02:43

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I love arty as you can tell by the amount of games in arty I have.

PanicShots #33 Posted May 19 2019 - 02:43

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WhineMaker why don't you try WOT Blitz? I hear it's more your speed.





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