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Type 5 Ruined & NOT cause of the gun

Type 5 Ruined

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Jasper_Seven #81 Posted May 31 2019 - 04:06

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I hate to step into this frenzy, but as an average player, I don't think WG should have nerfed pretty much any tank. As I came up in tiers there was always the fear factor of certain tanks to face. But, as I got to higher tiers, the fear is certain tanks in certain hands.

 

But, I have never seen a battle that was loaded up with one type of tank, solely because everyone thought it was the OP tank. I don't think I ever saw a battle with more than two type 4s or type 5s. And when they were there, they were part of the heavy team that would have to face off with similar heavies. Now maybe way back, when I was first grinding through lower tiers, the battles were full of IS7s?  If so, I never heard of any stories of them.

I will admit that I favor tier 8 and 9 battles, so maybe those that play strictly tier 10 have other stories.

 

(new tanks, just sold, specials, etc... can be amusing when there are 10 of the same tank on each side, but that is a momentary thing.)



ACandieCaneKilling #82 Posted May 31 2019 - 09:26

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View PostJasper_Seven, on May 30 2019 - 20:06, said:

I hate to step into this frenzy, but as an average player, I don't think WG should have nerfed pretty much any tank. As I came up in tiers there was always the fear factor of certain tanks to face. But, as I got to higher tiers, the fear is certain tanks in certain hands.

 

But, I have never seen a battle that was loaded up with one type of tank, solely because everyone thought it was the OP tank. I don't think I ever saw a battle with more than two type 4s or type 5s. And when they were there, they were part of the heavy team that would have to face off with similar heavies. Now maybe way back, when I was first grinding through lower tiers, the battles were full of IS7s?  If so, I never heard of any stories of them.

I will admit that I favor tier 8 and 9 battles, so maybe those that play strictly tier 10 have other stories.

 

(new tanks, just sold, specials, etc... can be amusing when there are 10 of the same tank on each side, but that is a momentary thing.)

 

Fair enough...

However, I have seen platoons who use op tank to decimate the enemy to win games, pad their stats, etc, although NOT really a lot of that lately.

As you said, in the right hands, any tank can be used well and seem op to any player who can't yield it with precision and skill but when a tank is so hard to pen, NOTHING aside from its own tier & direct competition can pen it, then it just ruins the gaming experience for the players who are left & cannot pen it, and I think that is what WoT was trying to achieve.

 

A long time ago, ALL tiers & tanks played in the same battles (as far as I know) I was NOT here at that time, but had I been it would have frustrated me to the point of NOT wanting to play. Imagine seeing Maus vs. tier 1 tanks? lol.

 

I used to see tier 1 & T34 Prem tanks team up, one to spot & the other to combat the other T34. I never got that match up myself, but oh well, a lot of players liked it.

But those were not the average player who is looking for a good gaming experience through well played skills based competition of tank vs tank & player vs player. This is lost when one tank is sooo good, it has no real threats against it.

Even if there is another of its kind, if the player in that tank doesn't know how to play it as well as the opposing OP tank, well you know the outcome & again you end up with a helpless situation.

But most of those days are gone now & the game is far more balanced than it ever was.

 

If OP tanks posed a real threat to the gaming experience, we would see them in the top three of the winning & losing stats at the end of every game they were in, and we do NOT necessarily see that. YES they do well, but not so much as to dominate automatically.

I've killed many so called OP tanks in regular old med tanks, like the Chrysler K so called OP tank. The first game I ever saw one, I killed it with my Jumbo myself by flanking it & remaining there to kill it from behind. Some op tank I thought.

Since that time I killed many more of them as well as other so called OP tanks. The thing is to go at them with support & not alone & that is the point of playing a team based tank game.

 

If we allow too many unbalanced tanks into the game, the same thing happens with the unbalanced maps, the games become lopsided, so I get that WoT needs to make changes to keep the balance, but in this case I feel they went WAYYYYY too far with the nerfing here & just ruined the tank. There has to be a balance there too.

 

Thks for your input :)



F1O1 #83 Posted May 31 2019 - 15:42

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Armour of Type 4 and 5, and even oho and oi, are a constant debated issue.

****On the one hand, they offer great AP resistance. Type 5 offers more AP resilience than either Maus, object 268 V 4, or Jag panzer. Tier 8-9 tanks, unless TD, are not penetrating Type 5 unless with enormous AP roll figures. That is a problem of 25% RNG, not of the armour or the shell. 

****On the other hand, they aren't really good versus premium ammunition. Unlike tanks like lS7 and object 260  -  which offer extreme sharp angles which will even deflect prem ammo when shot at improperly - the flatter slabs of Type 4 and 5 have difficulty doing that. The extreme angles still exist, there are still no-no places that can be shot at even with 350mm HEAT pen and you will still ricochet off Type 5.......you still have to aim that much is certain, but when aimed most of the time with 300+ pen you can fairly consistently penetrate type 5. 

 

l just want to make it clear though, l can show you a Tanks gg armour caption if you like. You think you will be auto-penetrated by tanks all the time? No, certainly not, not even with 350mm HEAT pen from VK7201. Type 5 still has effective armour places, far exceeding 350mm frontally. And the weak points....well are 260mm AP for a good combat chance to penetrate. That rules out tier 8-9 unless TD are used, for a competitive combat chance to penetrate. Tanks like Maus and Type 5 are just problematic. Too much armour for AP, but penetrated by prem.

 

Type 5 does not have to aim at enemies. Sure, it can aim at enemies for more splash damage, certainly. Shooting an E75 frontally for 150 dmg bursting splash right into the hull or turret may not seem to appealing, yes. But as far as reality goes....taking the extra time to -aim- and hit underneath the tank going for the inner track pads splashing upward, into 40mm floor of the tank. Or the hull roof beneath the turret frontally as you are tall enough as Type 5, again splashing 40mm armour surface. And finally, shooting the front turret slant upwards towards the cupola above the gun, 60mm armour thick. These just improve your splash dmg to 250-300, as you cannot penetrate those 70+ degree angles with HE no matter the thickness. Are those worth it? Well use, you improve your damage up to twice the amount, but with Type 5 accuracy? Beyond 100m, no bueno. You may miss entirely, or end up hitting the hardened parts of the tank and get your 150 dmg splash.

The problem though, is that same E75, perfectly side scrape, with majestic side armour that protects it even for ridiculous tier 10 ammo like 326mm APCR from super conquer. or 330mm HEAT from object 140. lf 75% of the tank is concealed by side cover, the rest of the tank protected by ridiculous side armour, thick tracks, and oblique angle - Type 5 doesn't care. lt just shoots the oblique angle for any sort of HE splash damage. Even if it only is 150 dmg dealt, it is dmg dealt freely otherwise impossible to achieve. This is what people mean, when they say Type 5 does not have to aim. Could be a Maus not E75, perfect side scrape. Type 5 just shoots the 10% of tracks it can see, for splash dmg hit then retreats to safety before Maus can react. Hull down Strv or Badger or T110E5? Type 5 does not care. Shoots at the 20% of the tank it can see, and splashes them for HE, even if low dmg it is otherwise damage most other tanks in the game are incapable of scoring. 

......Tanks have to aim at Type 5. But Type 5 does not have to aim at them. Can it aim, for better results? Sure, hitting 30-40mm armour sections over 250mm plate helps, or using 192mm HESH and aiming for a pen helps. Of course, but it does not have to, any many times Type 5 easily settles for a free dmg splash.

 

lf you are going to say you are penned all over the place, at least provide some evidence. Screenshots, or gameplay, of where you think tier 8-9 tanks are penetrating you with AP, not including TD. All these people, you included, are so keen to talk about armour nerfs. What armour nerfs, please do share. Type 5 hasn't been armour nerfed since P9.19.  l can show Type 5 armour model right now, revealing that -weakspots- are still strong vs most AP (non TD) Cupola needs to be shot at properly, and is still 240+  Drivers hatch is 250+  Bow gun emplacement, is 260+  These weakspots, are also very small targets.

 

Type 5 is not over powered. lt is broken. The two are very different. Object 907, or obj 260, or FV4201 are over powered. Type 5 is broken, and still to some degree remains broken

 

Maus was over-armoured, easy to play. Nerfed   (although armour not nerfed)

object 268 V 4 was over-armoured, easy to play. Nerfed

Type 5 was over-armoured, easy to play, Nerfed  (although armour not nerfed)

You see a pattern here? Tanks like T110E3, Badger - don't get this treatment because they are slow, unlike 268 V 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



ACandieCaneKilling #84 Posted Jun 01 2019 - 18:53

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F101

 

I think you misunderstand what I am getting at. You seem to think the Type 5 is the same as it was by mentioning how it used to compare to the other tanks in its lineup. It doesn't matter how it used to perform, it's a completely different tank now.

Its past tense performance doesn't matter; Maus, IS-7, 268 v4, etc. The nerf hasn't been around long enough to compare to any tank since the nerf was massive in its effects to the tank itself.

 

One of the main differences now (in my opinion & based on my current experiences in battle with it) has been that before the nerf, it was certainly difficult to pen sure, but cause of that fact, you didn't find yourself having to retreat all that often.

Yes they increased the traverse abilities a bit & that is great, but when you take away its SUPER HEAVY status, you have to give it back some RUN AWAY abilities & these are lacking badly.

Many tanks in its class have fairly slow RUN AWAY/RETREAT abilities but you knew that going in where as the Type 5 was something I already owned & the nerfs it received changed the tank so drastically, it's not even close to what it was.

To me, this isn't much of a Super Tank any more.

 

The same thing happened with the FV4005, taking away some of its abilities to make the player work harder to make that tank do its job. This is fine & makes sense when a tank is simply too OP.

But in doing so, sometimes you CHANGE the tank so dramatically, it loses too much of what/who it was. This is what I think WoT did with the Type 5.

They gave the FV4005 a nerfing & I don't see any real controversy with its nerf as the tank was, and still is, brutally deadly. OK, I'm fine with it. This didn't completely change the tank as a whole, you just have to work harder.

However, with the Type 5, some of its nerfing makes NO SENSE since the tank is always in the middle of a brawl (unlike the FV4005.) Taking away some of its RUN AWAY/RETREAT ability is devastating.

 

The tank is still a formidable weapon, but as the player driving it, it's lost its FUN FACTOR.

It's meant to be a front line heavy, push, push, push, offensive tank in every sense of the word but with this nerf, one has to consider you have to retreat more often now, drive more defensively & be more cautious than ever before, which is fine, but why make it SO bad, SO slow reversing it seems almost pointless. The traverse is better, but the reverse is slower? Why?

This nerf has caused a counter effect which is SO bad, it makes the tank incredibly difficult to play as a SUPER HEAVY & that was part of its FUN FACTOR.

The tank WAS something special & now it's just frustrating. I feel as though WoT went too far with too much when they reduced the reverse on the Type 5 Heavy.



F1O1 #85 Posted Jun 03 2019 - 00:34

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You seem to misunderstand what l am talking about. And furthermore, you incorrectly label what you are trying to talk about.

l did not, have never mentioned Type 5 is the same as it was before. Show me when. l said, in response to others and you saying it, that type 5 armour is the same as it was before. For the past 21 months, Type 5 armour hasn't been changed since P9.20. By saying the armour has been nerfed, you imply not that the tank is changed in performance, or effectiveness in some ways, although those may be as a result, but you imply and it is asserted - that the armour changed in a way. And it has most certainly not. Armour is the same, since 9.20.

 

The other nerfs to other tanks, do matter. WG is putting out a front, that they do not want easy-mode tanks littering the battlefields. Generally, poorer performing players do better, in armoured vehicles. They want to curb this occurrence. The only reason tanks like T110E3 or Badger or Tortoise aren't nerfed, are because of their incredible slowness. They lack the utility object 268 V 4 had, which is why it was nerfed and they are not. So why where Maus and Type 5 nerfed, since they are slow? Because they have turrets to counteract that, to give them utility. Type 5 was even buffed in mobility.

 

Where are you getting this armour nerf. This taking away of its superheavy ability. Show me where, armour nerfs / HP nerf. For the love of all thats holy, tell me where and when and what. You are making up stuff.  lt lost its ability to fight super heavy tanks in its former ways, well alright. lt can't HE dupe shotgun blast sidescraping tanks anymore for 500. lt cannot engine platform or turret roof splash enemies anymore for 600. l get it, but literally, the tank is still a super heavy itself. No armour nerfs. No HP nerf. And in addition, with the better 140mm, it can actually have sensible DPM, and can work against tanks like other Type 5, E100, Jag panzer. 

 

The Type 5 is still a front line tank. lt can equip the 140mm for consistency and long ranged maps, or use the 150mm HE gun for splashing, or wrecking tier 8. lt has lost no protection or HP, it can still remain on the front as assault. 

l'm ignoring the FV4005, because that has nothing to do with this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



jst2gr8 #86 Posted Jun 04 2019 - 04:27

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View PostF1O1, on May 27 2019 - 05:03, said:

 

 l am not sure where you are getting this. 

 

Type 5 lost 20mm armour, to the drivers hatch.  lt lost 10mm bow gunner / cannon emplacement.  Both these areas are still combat effective able to resist 250mm AP, more than 50% of the time. This makes it virtually the same as pre-nerf 270mm. No sane person, is going to trust 250mm AP to penetrate 258mm effectiveness with its angle, at reliable occurrence and/or frequency. No one is going to do that. They will switch to prem ammo immediately, and then even the initial pre-nerf 270mm means little then. Even the weaker ammo forms like Kran Van 300mm HEAT will do that reliably. Even  T34 heavy or Lowe or TS5 premium tier 8 ammunition, do more or less reliably. And the rear armour of the tank, was changed from 160mm to 150mm, again 10mm that is meaningless. ln tier 10, what does flat 150mm do or not do, that flat 160mm does. Nothing, as l said, meaningless. 

 

l'm not sure what you are so caught up on, but Type 5 armour has not been nerfed. By numbers, truthfully? Yes, it has received a couple 10mm, 20mm nerfs. Combat effectively? No nerf at all. 

 

 

 

Believe me, there is a very noticeable difference. On paper it doesn't seem like much but we are talking about in game. Shots that normally wouldn't pen seem to go through like warm butter. It even seems worse now. I have played it 3 times since the last nerf to the gun and am most likely going to never play it again. It lost that front line of the heavy attack it used to have. I really don't mind the smaller 14cm gun on it. It still does 600hp damage. I haven't tried the 15cm on it because all it has is HE rounds. From what I have heard the tier 10 EBR hits harder.(I really hate those things.)  But like said before, you get 2-3 shots off and get rushed and it's dead. 

 

I have been playing my lS-7 more lately. Trying to complete those damage dealt, taken and blocked missions and have come close a few times. I could have done them easily in the Type but not anymore. Looks like I will have to get the Maus to have some of that good armor to complete these mission.



F1O1 #87 Posted Jun 04 2019 - 20:34

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l don't deal with false context. l deal with world of tanks reality.

Type 5 hasn't received a structural nerf, since Pat 9.21. 

Whatever you people may think and perceive, it is wrong.

 

Can it attack and compete with other super heavy tanks now, like VK7201 or object 705A or jag pz E? No, it cannot, it will splash them for 150 damage, and take huge damage in return. But, omitting its armament and looking at the tank itself, it is still a super heavy in terms of armour and HP. And that hasn't changed for ages. Just because it itself, cannot fight a super heavy, doesn't mean it is less of a super heavy itself, because it still is one

 

 

 

 



coconut2011 #88 Posted Jun 05 2019 - 19:44

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I like the nerf to Type 5.  It brings Type 5 more in line of what a typical tier 10 heavy should be.  It is also still highly viable with the gold derp gun.

 

This is my ace tanker game post nerf.

 



F1O1 #89 Posted Jun 06 2019 - 16:52

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That replay,   lol

Confirms everything l have said about Type 5.

lt is just an awful tank, and not just it. There are others like it 

 



ACandieCaneKilling #90 Posted Jun 20 2019 - 14:41

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Amen

jst2gr8 #91 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 02:15

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View PostF1O1, on Jun 06 2019 - 08:52, said:

That replay,   lol

Confirms everything l have said about Type 5.

lt is just an awful tank, and not just it. There are others like it 

 

Just to show you how bad the armor is now. I got penned by a Strv S1, every shot he took and wasn't using premium ammo. 



GatoRat #92 Posted Jul 03 2019 - 20:23

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Seems to me that the game has become increasingly unbalanced. I believe one factor is that tanks are buffed and/or nerfed without looking at the whole picture. (And what is nerfed isn't always publicized.)




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