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Effective armor protection comparison


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Zergling #1 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 00:38

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WoT's armor values are kinda misleading, as they don't state slope angle, nor is the normalisation mechanic mentioned.
So I calculated the effective armor protection of many WoT tanks, assuming all shots are straight towards the frontal aspect of the tank (no sideways angling).

I mostly used historical armor values for my calculations, except for where I know WoT differs, like with the Tiger II having 120mm thick lower glacis in WoT, instead of the historical 100mm.

I only calculated for frontal armor, as this is most important facing on every tank. Side and rear armor would take a bit more work, and only a handful of tanks in WoT have decent side armor anyway.
I also haven't done anything in regards to turret armor, as that is significantly more complicated than hull armor, due to mantlet having seperate armor to front turret, which may or may not overlap with the front turret armor. And on top of that, turrets and mantlets are often curved, and I'm honestly not sure how to calculate slope for curved armor.
Plus, turret armor isn't quite as important as hull armor, with the majority of damage to tanks in WoT being done via hull shots (apart from arty damage).

I couldn't find all the armor thickness and slope values I wanted though, so I'd appreciate it if anyone could provide information on the following:

IS-3; lateral/horitzonal axis angle of upper glacis plates.
IS-4; better information about the driver viewport and plate; angles and thickness.
IS-7; haven't got a clue about the slope angles or armor thickness for this tank.


Armor terms:

Glacis: the front hull armor.
Note that the M3 Lee and M4 Sherman (and derivatives of those tanks) lower glacis is the lower curved part of the front hull, with the upper glacis being the section above the curve; normally marked by a row of rivets.

Driver's plate: plate above the upper glacis that joins to the top hull... see tanks like the Tiger I, Panzer IV, IS-1/2 for this kind of armor arrangement. Not all tanks have 3 section front hull arrangement like this, most just a upper and lower plate.

Superstructure: frontal armor for casemate style turretless tanks (Tank Destroyers), where the gun is mounted on top of the hull. Eg, Ferdinand and JagdTiger.


Ammo types:
AP: regular credit purchasable AP ammo. 8 degree normalisation.
APCR/APDS: gold/premium ammo for most guns. 12 degree normalisation.
HE/HEAT: HEAT is gold/premium ammo for some guns, mostly low velocity howitzer types and the E-100's 15cm gun. HE and HEAT don't have any normalisation.

And here's the armor figures. Feel free to correct any mistakes!

Panzer IV:

Driver's Plate = 80mm at 10 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 80mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 80mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 81mm

Lower Glacis = 80mm at 14 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 80mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 80mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 82mm



Panther:

Upper Glacis = 82mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Fffective protection versus AP = 120mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 112mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 143mm

Lower Glacis = 62mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 91mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 85mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 108mm



Panther II:

Upper Glacis = 100mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 88mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 82mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 105mm



E-50:

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 195mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 240mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 60? degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 195mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 240mm



T-34 and T-34-85:

Upper Glacis = 45mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 67mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 90mm

Lower Glacis = 45mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 67mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 90mm



T-43:

Upper Glacis = 75mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 110mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 103mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 131mm



T-44:

Upper Glacis = 90mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 146mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 135mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 180mm

Lower Glacis = 90mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 146mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 135mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 180mm



Type 59:

Upper Glacis = 100mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 162mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 149mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 200mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm



T-54:

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 195mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 240mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 176mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 164mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 209mm



M24 Chaffee:

Upper Glacis = 25mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 41mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 37mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 50mm

Lower Glacis = 25mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 31mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 30mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 35mm



M4 Sherman:

Upper Glacis = 51mm at 56 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 76mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 71mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 91mm

Lower Glacis = 51mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 51mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 51mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 53mm



M4A3E8 Sherman:

Upper Glacis = 63mm at 47 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 77mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 92mm

Lower Glacis = 102mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 103mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 102mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 106mm



M4A3E2 Sherman Jumbo:

Upper Glacis = 102mm at 47 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 131mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 125mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 150mm

Lower Glacis = 139mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 140mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 139mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 144mm



M26 Pershing and M46 Patton:

Upper Glacis = 102mm at 46 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 129mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 123mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 147mm

Lower Glacis = 76mm at 53 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 107mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 101mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 126mm



Tiger I:

Driver's Plate = 100mm at 9 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 100mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 100mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 101mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 80 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 194mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 160mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 346mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 25 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 105mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 103mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 110mm



Tiger II:

Upper Glacis = 150mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 233mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 161mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 152mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 187mm



E-75:

Upper Glacis = 160mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 260mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 239mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 320mm

Lower Glacis = 130mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 211mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 194mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 260mm



E-100:

Upper Glacis = 200mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 325mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 299mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 400mm

Lower Glacis = 150mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 233mm



VK 4502 (P) Ausf. A

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 176mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 164mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 209mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 150mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 143mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 170mm



VK 4502 (P) Ausf. B

Upper Glacis = 170mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 249mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 232mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 296mm

Lower Glacis = 150mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 188mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 212mm



Maus:

Upper Glacis = 200mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 293mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 273mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 349mm

Lower Glacis = 200mm at 35 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 224mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 217mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 244mm



KV-1/2:

Driver's Plate = 75mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 79mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm

Upper Glacis = 40mm at 65 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 66mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 95mm

Lower Glacis = 75mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 79mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm



KV-1S:

Driver's Plate = 75mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 79mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm

Upper Glacis = 50mm at 70 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 66mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 95mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 25 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 63mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 62mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 66mm



IS-2 Model 1943 (ingame tier 7 IS):

Driver's Plate = 120mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 129mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 126mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 139mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 72 degrees from vertical (might be 70mm)

Effective protection versus AP = 137mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 120mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 194mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 108mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 105mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 115mm



IS-3:

Driver's Plate = 110mm at 76 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 294mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 251mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 455mm

Upper Glacis (if 30 degree lateral angle) = 110mm at 62 degrees from vertical and 30? degree lateral angle

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 180mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 271mm

Upper Glacis (if 20 degree lateral angle) = 110mm at 62 degrees from vertical and 20? degree lateral angle

Effective protection versus AP = 191mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 173mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 249mm

Lower Glacis = 110mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 161mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 150mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 192mm



IS-4:

Upper Glacis = 140mm at 61 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 233mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 213mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 289mm

Lower Glacis = 160mm at 40 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 189mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 181mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 209mm



M6:

Upper Glacis = 83mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 90mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 87mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 96mm

Lower Glacis = 102mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 103mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 102mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 106mm



T29/T30/T34 Heavy Tank:

Upper Glacis = 102mm at 54 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm



T32:

Upper Glacis = 127mm at 54 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 183mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 171mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 216mm



Hetzer:

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 97mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 90mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 129mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 40 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 71mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 68mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 78mm



Stug III:

Upper Glacis = 50mm at 10 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 50mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 50mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 51mm

Lower Glacis = 50mm at 21 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 51mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 51mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 54mm



JagdPanzer IV:

Superstructure = 80mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 108mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 102mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 124mm

Upper Glacis = 80mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 100mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 95mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 113mm

Lower Glacis = 50mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 73mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 68mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm



Jagdpanther:

Upper Glacis = 80mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 117mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 109mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 139mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 55 degrees from vertical (XML only has a 65mm value, so may be thicker in WoT)

Effective protection versus AP = 88mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 82mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 105mm



Ferdinand:

Superstructure = 200mm at 20 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 204mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 202mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 213mm

Driver's Plate = 200mm at 12 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 200mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 200mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 204mm

Upper Glacis = 200mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 250mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 238mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 283mm

Lower Glacis = 80mm at 35 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 90mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 87mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 98mm



JagdTiger:

Superstructure = 250mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 252mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 250mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 259mm

Upper Glacis = 150mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 202mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 233mm

Lower Glacis = 120mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 187mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 161mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 152mm



SU-85:

Upper Glacis = 45mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 61mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 57mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 70mm

Lower Glacis = 45mm at 53 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 64mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 60mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 75mm



SU-100:

Upper Glacis = 75mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 101mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 95mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 117mm

Lower Glacis = 45mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 66mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 62mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 78mm



SU-152:

Superstructure = 75mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 81mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 79mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 87mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 70 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 128mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 113mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 175mm

Lower Glacis = 60mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 65mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 63mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 69mm



ISU-152:

Superstructure = 90mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 97mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 95mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 104mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 78 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 175mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 148mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 289mm

Lower Glacis = 90mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 97mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 95mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 104mm



Object 704:

Upper Glacis = 120mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 161mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 152mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 187mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 147mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 137mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 174mm



M10 Wolverine:

Upper Glacis = 51mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 75mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 70mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 89mm

Lower Glacis = 114mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 115mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 114mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 118mm



M36 Slugger:

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 88mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 82mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 105mm

Lower Glacis = 114mm at 15 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 115mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 114mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 118mm



And for everyone's enjoyment, here's some tanks that aren't in WoT yet!
They aren't all planned, but who knows what will be added in the future?


M103 Heavy Tank:

Upper Glacis = 127mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 206mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 190mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 254mm

Lower Glacis = 114mm at 50 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 153mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 145mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 177mm

Not exactly stellar armor for a tier 9 heavy, but comparable to the Tiger II, so it certainly is a big upgrade over the T34!



T26E4 Super Pershing:

Upper Glacis = 122mm at 46 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 155mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 147mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 176mm

Lower Glacis = 96 mm at 53 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 136mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 127mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 160mm

Be nice to have this tank as an (slower) alternative to the M26 at tier 8, or the M46 at tier 9.



M47 Patton:

Upper Glacis = 102mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 166mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 152mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 204mm

The effective protection is only slightly better than the Type 59!



M48 Patton:

Upper Glacis = 110mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 179mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 164mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 220mm

Still inferior to the T-54 and E-50.



M18 Hellcat:

Upper Glacis = 13mm at 60 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 21mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 19mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 26mm

Lower Glacis = 13mm at 40 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 15mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 15mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 17mm

This thing has less armor than even the Chaffee!



SturmTiger:

Superstructure = 150mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 188mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 212mm

Upper Glacis = 150mm at 45 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 188mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 179mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 212mm

Lower Glacis = 102mm at 25 degrees from vertical

Effective protection versus AP = 107mm
Effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 105mm
Effective protection versus HE/HEAT = 103mm

380mm Rocket Mortar and the armor of a tier 8 heavy tank... DERP?

Tupinambis #2 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 04:05

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LoL M4 Sherman has better armor than T-34/85.
One of many reasons I hated that tank back in the beta.

Excellent work BTW!

Ogopogo #3 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 04:07

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Wow..... just wow. :Smile_honoring:

Zergling #4 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 07:05

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Ty!

There are some interesting results, like how the E-75, E-100 and probably the IS-4 all have better frontal armor than the Maus.

Actually, it is likely the IS-4 has better side armor than the Maus aswell; Maus has 185mm sides with 0 slope, compared to the IS-4 with 160mm sides sloped at an unknown angle.

evanb90 #5 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 07:21

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Maus upper plate is angled at 55 degrees.

Zergling #6 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 08:20

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View Postevanb90, on Sep 22 2011 - 07:21, said:

Maus upper plate is angled at 55 degrees.

Pretty sure it's 45 degrees, various searches have turned up that angle, and from pictures of the tank, it does look about 45.

Still, if you can provide a link that says otherwise, I'd appreciate it!

evanb90 #7 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 17:14

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http://www.achtungpa...5-tiger-iip.htm

And measuring the schematics available on the internet with GIMP (see image)

Attached Files

  • Attached File   Mausplate.png   19.84K


lostwingman #8 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 18:04

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You have some of your numbers wrong.
The front armor as you know is not homogenous (you got the IS-2 spot on).
The one I know for sure is off is the Tiger
Only the superstructure part of the armor is 100, the upper glacis (the one at the extreme angle) is only 60mm and the lower glacis is 80mm.

Prav #9 Posted Sep 22 2011 - 20:56

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Here's the Ferdinand's armor values from the XML:
 //Hull
<armor>
	  <armor_1>	280	</armor_1>
	  <armor_2>	200	</armor_2>
	  <armor_3>	80	</armor_3>
	  <armor_4>	80	</armor_4>
	  <armor_5>	200	</armor_5>
	  <armor_6>	80	</armor_6>
	  <armor_7>	80	</armor_7>
	  <armor_8>	25	</armor_8>
	  <armor_9>	30	</armor_9>
	  <armor_10>	0	</armor_10>
	  <armor_12>	30	<noDamage>	true	</noDamage><surveyingDevice>	50	</surveyingDevice></armor_12>
	</armor>

//"Turret"
   <armor>
		<armor_1>	80	</armor_1>
		<armor_2>	80	</armor_2>
		<armor_3>	80	</armor_3>
		<armor_4>	80	</armor_4>
		<armor_5>	80	</armor_5>
		<armor_6>	0	</armor_6>
		<armor_7>	0	</armor_7>
		<armor_8>	0	</armor_8>
	  </armor>

So I think that the hull is mostly 200 (maybe the lower plate is 80?), as stated. A 200 gun should still go through ~half the time and 175 guns only occasionally, while 225+ punch through most of the time. This matches my experience with it.

Zergling #10 Posted Sep 23 2011 - 03:15

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View Postevanb90, on Sep 22 2011 - 17:14, said:

http://www.achtungpa...5-tiger-iip.htm

And measuring the schematics available on the internet with GIMP (see image)

Ok, fixed it. Thanks for mentioning that program, be looking for something that could measure image angles for just this purpose  ;)

So the Maus does have better armor than the IS-4 and E-75 afterall.


Maus:

Upper Glacis = 200mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 349mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 293mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 273mm


View Postlostwingman, on Sep 22 2011 - 18:04, said:

The one I know for sure is off is the Tiger
Only the superstructure part of the armor is 100, the upper glacis (the one at the extreme angle) is only 60mm and the lower glacis is 80mm.

You are right about the upper glacis, AND I got the angle wrong as well; it is 60mm at 80 degrees, not 100mm at 65, my bad! Fixed!

Lower glacis is 100mm according to various sources though:

http://www.fprado.co...site/tiger1.htm
http://www.onwar.com...data/tiger1.htm


Tiger I:

Driver's Plate = 100mm at 9 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 101mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 100mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 100mm

Upper Glacis = 60mm at 80 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 346mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 194mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 160mm

Lower Glacis = 100mm at 25 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 110mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 105mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 103mm

lostwingman #11 Posted Sep 23 2011 - 18:43

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hmm it might have been that on some of the models but I do believe I have seen armor schemes posted here with the lower glacis as 80mm and the consensus being that that was the correct number.

Zergling #12 Posted Sep 24 2011 - 02:35

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View PostPrav, on Sep 22 2011 - 20:56, said:

Here's the Ferdinand's armor values from the XML:
 //Hull
<armor>
	  <armor_1>	280	</armor_1>
	  <armor_2>	200	</armor_2>
	  <armor_3>	80	</armor_3>
	  <armor_4>	80	</armor_4>
	  <armor_5>	200	</armor_5>
	  <armor_6>	80	</armor_6>
	  <armor_7>	80	</armor_7>
	  <armor_8>	25	</armor_8>
	  <armor_9>	30	</armor_9>
	  <armor_10>	0	</armor_10>
	  <armor_12>	30	<noDamage>	true	</noDamage><surveyingDevice>	50	</surveyingDevice></armor_12>
	</armor>

//"Turret"
   <armor>
		<armor_1>	80	</armor_1>
		<armor_2>	80	</armor_2>
		<armor_3>	80	</armor_3>
		<armor_4>	80	</armor_4>
		<armor_5>	80	</armor_5>
		<armor_6>	0	</armor_6>
		<armor_7>	0	</armor_7>
		<armor_8>	0	</armor_8>
	  </armor>

So I think that the hull is mostly 200 (maybe the lower plate is 80?), as stated. A 200 gun should still go through ~half the time and 175 guns only occasionally, while 225+ punch through most of the time. This matches my experience with it.

What XML is that? I can't find anything in the game files.

Zergling #13 Posted Sep 26 2011 - 09:21

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Adjusted IS-3, although I still can't work out lateral angle!

IS-3:

Driver's Plate = 110mm at 76 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 455mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 294mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 251mm

Upper Glacis = 110mm at 62 degrees from vertical and 30? degree lateral angle

Line of sight thickness = 271mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 202mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 180mm

Lower Glacis = 110mm at 55 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 192mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 161mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 150mm


Added M6, T32.

M6:

Upper Glacis = 83mm at 30 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 96mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 90mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 87mm

Lower Glacis = 102mm at 15? degrees from vertical (slight assumption about slope; I guess it is like the Sherman, but even Sherman may not be 15 degrees anyway, due to it being curved)

Line of sight thickness = 106mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 103mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 102mm

T32:

Upper Glacis = 127mm at 54 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 216mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 183mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 171mm


IS-3 has eerily similar armor for the upper and lower glacis compared to the Tiger II; 202mm effective upper, and 161mm effective lower.

IS-3 probably seems to have less armor than the KT ingame due to it frequently fighting at close range, where part of the vertical armor slope is negated by close range shots.
And the IS-3's low profile will further increase that effect.
Plus, any sideways/lateral angle to the target will decrease the IS-3's effective protection, while that will only increase the KT's.
I am only estimating the lateral angle for the IS-3 upper glacis however.

T32 has less hull armor than both Tiger II and IS-3, and it has the very easy to hit hull MG weakspot.

Tupinambis #14 Posted Sep 26 2011 - 20:01

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Something seems odd to me about the IS-3 calculations. I find that the Pershing, with its 180 pen gun, can punch through an IS-3's front pretty reliably wherever it hits... on the hull anyway.

vit12345 #15 Posted Sep 26 2011 - 20:53

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i added this to my bookmarkhttp://cdn-frm-us.wargaming.net/wot/us/4.1/style_emoticons/default/Smile_great.gif

Charcharo #16 Posted Sep 27 2011 - 07:12

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I want to add that IS-4 armor is actually 140mm. Its 160 only on the driver port.

Arzoo #17 Posted Sep 27 2011 - 09:23

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View PostCharcharo, on Sep 27 2011 - 07:12, said:

I want to add that IS-4 armor is actually 140mm. Its 160 only on the driver port.

Definitely not true, the XML only has a single value listed at 140mm, and considering the front is the same armor as the sides that means the 140mm has to be for something else. Just from experience I can tell you that the IS-4 definitely has more than 140mm all over the place: there is no way in the world that the 120mm would bounce off it so much otherwise. They probably just "accidentally" flipped it so that only the hatch has 140mm while everything else is 160.

Charcharo #18 Posted Sep 27 2011 - 09:33

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View PostArzoo, on Sep 27 2011 - 09:23, said:

Definitely not true, the XML only has a single value listed at 140mm, and considering the front is the same armor as the sides that means the 140mm has to be for something else. Just from experience I can tell you that the IS-4 definitely has more than 140mm all over the place: there is no way in the world that the 120mm would bounce off it so much otherwise. They probably just "accidentally" flipped it so that only the hatch has 140mm while everything else is 160.
Posted Image

Zergling #19 Posted Sep 27 2011 - 13:03

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View PostCharcharo, on Sep 27 2011 - 09:33, said:

Posted Image

Good picture, just the kind of thing I'm looking for! Thanks!

Not 100% certain, but I don't think the IS-4 has any lateral angle on the glacis plates.


Revised IS-4:

Upper Glacis = 140mm at 61 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 289mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 233mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 213mm

Lower Glacis = 160mm at 40 degrees from vertical

Line of sight thickness = 209mm
WoT effective protection versus AP = 189mm
WoT effective protection versus APCR/APDS = 181mm


According to that, the 12.8cm KwK 44 L/55 and 120mm T53 should penetrate that more than 50% of the time. Does that or doesn't that happen ingame?

Charcharo #20 Posted Sep 27 2011 - 18:04

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It penetrates most of the time. A good deal morer than 50%