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New Players = No Help

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__WarChild__ #1 Posted May 20 2019 - 22:36

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Howdy Tankers,

 

I normally would not waste my time with a re-roll account (every game spent playing there is one that I'm not playing on my account).  However, I wanted to take advantage of 4TankersAndDog's "RUDYRUDYRUDY" deal that has 3 nice premium tanks that I believe my family could use and enjoy on an account that is NOT MINE.  Here is my experience with "re-rolling" an account:

 

1) Sailed through the tutorial

2) Got stuck on the American Line (didn't see a choice to pick something else)

3) Received a commander with 6th Sense for 1 tank

4) NO CREDITS to speak of

5) Cannot equip any tanks with anything until you've grinded a little cash.

6) Cannot transfer crews from Premium tanks to Tech Tree for 90% because no cash.

7) Play games with 1 tank (the one with 6th sense) with no camo and no good equipment.

8) Game pushes you to Tier 3 quickly and encourages getting to Tier 6 ASAP (well, Tier 5 and free token for a Tier 6)

9) No way to build anything meaningful without spending actual money to get credits & possibly more gold.

10) Every game feels like a huge disadvantage (more than normal)

 

I was planning on getting this account up to speed in my spare time so I can eventually encourage my kids/nephew to play a different account.  However, it's just not fun to be stuck in lower tiers with inadequate equipment & crews and no cash.

 

I might be crazy, but my thought is that New Players should get 1 or 2 low tier premium tanks, 2,000 Gold & 1,000,000 credits (maybe 2M).  Then they can move crews around, equip tanks, slap some camo down and play on somewhat equal footing.  Then again, maybe there's a reason not to provide all of that.  I just think that they ought to get a player "hooked" before they lose interest.

 

My 2 cents.  Feel free to jam them back down my throat...  :mellow:

 

Happy Tanking,

 

__WarChild__



dnaman #2 Posted May 20 2019 - 22:43

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All of us ground through that stage and remember it with varying degrees of accuracy.  I see it with my daughter, though.  She’s always credit poor and struggles with normal tanks (she likes arty) so it’s hard for her to play with Dad for very long. 

 

In case that wasn’t clear I’m in favor of giving new players a bit more credits to start. 



WileyCat #3 Posted May 20 2019 - 22:45

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lmbo

Garandster #4 Posted May 20 2019 - 22:52

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I did this not too long ago and I picked Russia so at some point you can pick a nation, I don't remember when off the top of my head. I would recommend not picking a skill and over training them to 65% so you can silver transfer for 100% (~40K XP on the first skill).

 

Kind of SOL on credits at the start for sure, but once you get rolling it gets better and if you don't want to keep a lot of tanks it's not too bad. Use the premium tanks to make some quick credits, try to use the referral program if you can too, and the Twitch Prime loot will gave a decent amount of rental tanks too over time to help. The referral code gave enough gold a(nd a Churchill), I just bought equipment as I went and after the premium tank rental ended, pulled the equipment off. I also sell all the premium consumables on my F2P account and after like 5 months I have 4 or 5 tanks worth of camo that they gave out for free. The scavenger hunt bonuses are HUGE.

 

Edit: I would love to see new accounts get more equipment at the start. Some freely transferable training equipment that breaks after X battles would be a nice thing to give new players so they can swap things around to see how it does on the battlefield and quickly haw it changes the stats without them having to use the compare tool.


Edited by Garandster, May 20 2019 - 22:55.


VooDooKobra #5 Posted May 20 2019 - 22:59

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IMO new players should 

 

1. Start out with 100% crews in tank tiers 1 - 3 or be able to move them between those lines at no cost retraining

2. start with a piece of equipment of their choosing 

3. for the first number of battles in low tiers they play only against players with similar battle counts

4. give special missions for new players with good credit payouts

5. ammo and repairs under a certain number of battles cost nothing but no premium rounds at those tiers



__WarChild__ #6 Posted May 20 2019 - 23:05

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Y'all have some good ideas.  Keep'm coming.

 

I'll make a list of them.



AllieOop2 #7 Posted May 20 2019 - 23:05

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WG has long forgotten the new player. They don't seem to even care on NA. Then there are so many career WoT players at the low tiers with total geared up tanks the experience isnt great for true new players.

ez_money #8 Posted May 20 2019 - 23:39

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I would agree with starting them out with at least one good crew and at least a modest amount of credits. Some "temporary" equipment or rental equipment so they can see how it works. Beyond that I think the real issue is the lack of training on the details of game mechanics. The basic tutorial is pretty useless (unless it has changed significantly since I started) and they are not really given all of the information they need. I know when I started I played forever without consumables, equipment, camo, etc. because I wasn't aware of the ins and outs of everything.

 

__WarChild__: On another note, saw you on the enemy team yesterday in FL playing the LT-432. You and another medium on your team was peek-a-booming me around a corner and I ended up killing you, while one of my teammates killed the medium. Afterwards, I thought about it and I would have played that situation exactly the way you did had I been in my Lt-432, and I too would have been dead. Moral of the story is I learned something, just sorry it had to be at your expense.



el_01 #9 Posted May 20 2019 - 23:41

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Actually explain things in the game, perhaps I wasn't paying attention, but there was a time when I wondered why I couldn't pen a Matilda with my M2 Medium. 

 

Also explain roles, because I remember pushing ahead on Karelia in my Swedish TD, and being murdered by a Panzer 1C.

 

Crews shouldn't be something new players have to worry about, as another person said.

 

IMO the tanks you can choose to grind down should have an explanation of what they lead to and also should include lines such as the Russian Medium.

 

Perhaps add optional tutorials for things like scouting, sniping, aiming ahead, etc. etc.

 

Nerf lower-tier (especially Tier 5 and 6 American) arty. Circon provided good reasons in his video as to why.

 

Restrict MM for lower-tier players, preferably so they can't see people with more than x number of battles.

 

Allow players to redeem account creation codes within a certain number of battles, because then new players can get some premium tanks, gold, premium time, etc.

 

Special new player missions where you can earn equipment for completing certain tasks, plus the gold to demount it. Yes, the new player missions are there, but don't really provide much equipment.

 

Provide a list of "new player friendly" Tier 6s when token exchange can happen, I regrettably traded mine for the 59-16, which I had no experience in because I didn't know how to scout. Include tanks such as the Sherman Jumbo, the T-34-85, the KV-85, some well-armoured and/or mostly idiot-proof TD, perhaps some more.

 

Sorry for the huge list.

 



xrays_ #10 Posted May 20 2019 - 23:51

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Change the game so that Tiers I - III are all open and unlocked tanks with permanent 2-skill crews and appropriate equipment and shell load-outs (neither of which can be transferred to any other tanks). Also, restrict Tiers I - III to not being included in your stats in any way, which removes the potential for stat-padding or seal clubbing at that level. Basically, once you've passed Tier VI, there should be no reason to go back to the first three Tiers, except for helping a new player learn the basics, and that should be made as easy as possible.

 

Obviously, there are difficulties with this idea, but they could be worked out. The goal here is to get players interested in playing the game, not harassed for being new to the game.

 

x.



madogthefirst #11 Posted May 20 2019 - 23:54

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I just wish they would bother to balance the low tiers.

 

Some of the suggestions are already in place last I checked.



GWyatt #12 Posted May 21 2019 - 00:09

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I posted a much longer than this idea on new players some time ago. Make of it what you will.

 

Tier 1, should be a tier where you are learning to drive, about what maps look like, and how to shoot at other tanks. No tank should be killed in less than 4 or 5 shots to give new players a chance to make mistakes but no tank should take more than 6 to kill.
•    Restricted to two small maps, one mostly urban, one mostly rural.
•    Tier 1 only sees tier 1, fill MM with bots to reduce wait time.
•    100% crew with 6th sense. Tied to tank, cannot be retrained to another.
•    No equipment slots.
•    No skills/perks slots.
•    No consumable slots.
•    AP ammo only.
 
Tier 2, should be a tier where you are learning the game mechanics, such as vision and armor, and tier 2 introduces the different classes of tanks. Again, no tank should be killed in less than 4 or 5 shots to give new players a chance to make mistakes.
•    Restricted to two small maps, one mostly urban, one mostly rural.
•    Tier 2 only sees tier 2, fill MM with bots to reduce wait time.
•    100% crew with 6th sense. Tied to tank (except can be moved in and out of premium only.)
•    One equipment slot with one free piece of equipment per tank that cannot be dismounted, only destroyed.
•    Restricted crews to one/first skill. New crew with one free 50% skill per crew member, player’s choice.
•    All consumable slots with 10-20 free small medical, repair, and manual fire extinguisher.
•    Standard ammo only.
 
Tier 3, should be a tier where you are learning something about tactics, game play, maps, and teams. Again, no tank should be killed in less than 4 shots from same tier tanks to give newer players a chance to make mistakes.
•    Restricted to low tier maps.
•    Tier 3 can see tier 4, fill MM with bots to reduce wait time.
•    100% crew with 6th sense. Tied to tank (except can be moved in and out of premium only.)
•    Three equipment slots with one free piece of equipment per tank that cannot be dismounted, only destroyed.
•    Restricted to one/first skill. New crew with free 50% skill per crew members, player’s choice.
•    All consumable slots with 10-20 free small medical, repair, and manual fire extinguisher.
•    No restriction on ammo (can use special ammo.)
 
Tier 4, should be a tier where you are transitioning from new to newish player. Again, no tank should be killed in less than 3 shots from same tier tanks to give newer players a chance to make mistakes.
•    Can see same maps as tier 5.
•    Tier 4 can see tier 3 and 5, fill MM with bots to reduce wait time.
•    100% crew with 6th sense.
•    Three equipment slots with one free piece of equipment per tank that can be dismounted. Cannot choose binoculars, camouflage net, or toolbox as free equipment as this tier’s equipment could be moved, sold, etc.
•    Unlimited skills/perks. New crew with one free 50% skill or perk per crew member, player’s choice.
•    All consumable slots.
•    No restriction on ammo (can use special ammo.)


ez_money #13 Posted May 21 2019 - 00:31

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GWyatt: Too long to quote your post, but I have always agreed with the idea of a PVE/bot setup for new players (in your Tier 1 suggestion). At least give them the chance to learn the game mechanics and some basic tactics without having to always do it in the "heat of battle."

t8z5h3 #14 Posted May 21 2019 - 00:55

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View PostGWyatt, on May 20 2019 - 19:09, said:

I posted a much longer than this idea on new players some time ago. Make of it what you will.

 

Tier 1, should be a tier where you are learning to drive, about what maps look like, and how to shoot at other tanks. No tank should be killed in less than 4 or 5 shots to give new players a chance to make mistakes but no tank should take more than 6 to kill.
•    Restricted to two small maps, one mostly urban, one mostly rural.
•    Tier 1 only sees tier 1, fill MM with bots to reduce wait time.
•    100% crew with 6th sense. Tied to tank, cannot be retrained to another.
•    No equipment slots.
•    No skills/perks slots.
•    No consumable slots.
•    AP ammo only.
 
Tier 2, should be a tier where you are learning the game mechanics, such as vision and armor, and tier 2 introduces the different classes of tanks. Again, no tank should be killed in less than 4 or 5 shots to give new players a chance to make mistakes.
•    Restricted to two small maps, one mostly urban, one mostly rural.
•    Tier 2 only sees tier 2, fill MM with bots to reduce wait time.
•    100% crew with 6th sense. Tied to tank (except can be moved in and out of premium only.)
•    One equipment slot with one free piece of equipment per tank that cannot be dismounted, only destroyed.
•    Restricted crews to one/first skill. New crew with one free 50% skill per crew member, player’s choice.
•    All consumable slots with 10-20 free small medical, repair, and manual fire extinguisher.
•    Standard ammo only.
 
Tier 3, should be a tier where you are learning something about tactics, game play, maps, and teams. Again, no tank should be killed in less than 4 shots from same tier tanks to give newer players a chance to make mistakes.
•    Restricted to low tier maps.
•    Tier 3 can see tier 4, fill MM with bots to reduce wait time.
•    100% crew with 6th sense. Tied to tank (except can be moved in and out of premium only.)
•    Three equipment slots with one free piece of equipment per tank that cannot be dismounted, only destroyed.
•    Restricted to one/first skill. New crew with free 50% skill per crew members, player’s choice.
•    All consumable slots with 10-20 free small medical, repair, and manual fire extinguisher.
•    No restriction on ammo (can use special ammo.)
 
Tier 4, should be a tier where you are transitioning from new to newish player. Again, no tank should be killed in less than 3 shots from same tier tanks to give newer players a chance to make mistakes.
•    Can see same maps as tier 5.
•    Tier 4 can see tier 3 and 5, fill MM with bots to reduce wait time.
•    100% crew with 6th sense.
•    Three equipment slots with one free piece of equipment per tank that can be dismounted. Cannot choose binoculars, camouflage net, or toolbox as free equipment as this tier’s equipment could be moved, sold, etc.
•    Unlimited skills/perks. New crew with one free 50% skill or perk per crew member, player’s choice.
•    All consumable slots.
•    No restriction on ammo (can use special ammo.)

 

I think your completely right.

i would add that I think that there should be a item that you buy for 1,000,000,000 credits after you buy the tier 10 of a line that lets you “buy your way into normal style MM for tier 1 to 4. Why so high you ask so that you only apply that consumable to the tanks you really love. The current tanks you own would automatically get it, premiums would have that as a Benefit. The training move would focus on shooting, moving, camo and building up Credits with no cost to play but no xp ether 



sid_vici0us #15 Posted May 21 2019 - 01:23

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Just separate tiers 1-3. No stats counted. No free exp or credits will be earned. Everything is free at those tiers and cannot be transferred to tier 4 or higher. Add a campaign similiar to the stug IV missions to unlock tier 4. And receive rewards with each mission like normal. So once you unlock tier 4 you have a decent amount of credits and consumables already saved up.

Frostblitz20 #16 Posted May 21 2019 - 02:11

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Gotta admit i was suckered into grinding out the US line first when i got into the game... could be worse could be German heavys with the TigerP/Tiger1 tanks.. 

Edited by Frostblitz20, May 21 2019 - 02:11.


Audie_L_Murphy #17 Posted May 21 2019 - 02:49

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WOT wants them to spend real money to get credits.

fireraiserbr #18 Posted May 21 2019 - 02:49

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you just think for yourselves dont you, if you reroll to have a nice start

 

not having money at start is hard, but thats how you learn, they have so much info now on how to play correctly and you want to give them millions credits, premium low tier tanks and gold just to become interested?

 

interested in what ? wargaming doesnt care to balance old lines of  tanks because swedish is new, corridor maps where isnt much you can do, paris a map which is so large complicated and nice and everything but in practice there are only 2 points on the map where something is done, the rest of the map is a usless map. etc etc 

 

my first 20k games i wasn't aware people discuss things in forum, not too much youtube videos either, i was clueless, and last 40k games i try to recoup in my overall winrate playing 220 crews in my garage covering every line in the game, that i grew up from 75% skill. people trashing me in chat over my 49% winrate dont account for nothing of this, they see a number and many many battles. 

 

reroll is nice and you are a good player from start, knowing maps and how to play, but you cant have an account with tanks from every nation and crews trained, all you have is some [edited]numbers you show off with.  

but for some people a number is better because it magically hides everything wrong and shows only your reroll numbers. 


Edited by fireraiserbr, May 21 2019 - 03:25.


TankFullOfBourbon #19 Posted May 21 2019 - 12:10

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Parts of me wants to say, like #2, I had to endure tier 3, 4 and 5 with incompetent crew, camo and binos, and hords of seal clubbers in invisible Hellcats and Hetzers, so what new players of today so special?

 

However, I also realize that the game is different today and so is the playerbase. Being a new player means being forced to push up the tiers to get good games, which in turn means that they are being scrubbed against the floor by the many more experienced players.  But I wouldn't want to do large sums of credits to make tier progression easier. Rather I would allow free crew re-training to players with less than 2k-3k games and provide new players with free transferable equipments: one camo net, one pair of binos, and one toolbox. 

 

 



GWyatt #20 Posted May 21 2019 - 14:10

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View PostTankFullOfBourbon, on May 21 2019 - 06:10, said:

Parts of me wants to say, like #2, I had to endure tier 3, 4 and 5 with incompetent crew, camo and binos, and hords of seal clubbers in invisible Hellcats and Hetzers, so what new players of today so special?

 

However, I also realize that the game is different today and so is the playerbase. Being a new player means being forced to push up the tiers to get good games, which in turn means that they are being scrubbed against the floor by the many more experienced players.  But I wouldn't want to do large sums of credits to make tier progression easier. Rather I would allow free crew re-training to players with less than 2k-3k games and provide new players with free transferable equipments: one camo net, one pair of binos, and one toolbox. 

 

 

 

I fully agree that game today is completely different than the game was when you started. In 2013, the game was 2 years old. You would have started as a new player, playing against a large number of other new players. Very few had tier 10's, let alone crews with 6+ skills/perks, and millions of credits to burn. Today there are a small number of players that have all the tanks in the game unlocked, 10s of millions in credits, and up to 8 years of experience.
 

While to some, complaining about the new player experience, is just a whine, but it is not the same game as when you started. The new player is playing against far fewer new players and fully equipped tanks and crews with multiple skills/perks being played by players with years of experience. To tell the new player to suck it up buttercup isn't helpful. Only a few new players are determined enough to put up with being beaten down by those with 1000's of games seal-clubbing in low tiers.

To have and maintain a viable game, WG must have new players starting and staying with the game to replace those leaving the game. To do that requires a change in how a new player is brought along in the game. I'm not saying make low tiers easier, just close the skill/credits/equipment gap.


Edited by GWyatt, May 21 2019 - 14:19.






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