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Why tank modeling is so not historical


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skhend25 #1 Posted May 21 2019 - 02:38

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Just wondering, playing low tier and I have a question, why are tanks modeled with such ridiculous non-historical speeds, turning ability, and the whole rocking back and forth crap... those early tanks transmissions would shred the first couple of times you even attempted it.

 

Has there ever been any real discussion to make a realistic mode similar to the competition?



NutrientibusMeaGallus #2 Posted May 21 2019 - 02:41

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 More realistic doesn't always equal more fun.

Panzerkind #3 Posted May 21 2019 - 03:08

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It's an arcade game. It's realistic to the point of creating general baseline parameters and aesthetics that make it immersive and appeal to the historically inclined among us. Beyond that, what is more important is making a game that works and is enjoyable to play. 

 

Warthunder RB is a lot more realistic, but playing it (especially at high tiers) is like smashing your head against a wall. Whoever camps harder and gets the first shot wins, which is actually pretty realistic and how tank engagements historically have tended to go, but it's not very fun in the context of a video game. Not to mention you can get sniped from several miles away with an ATGM... that is what high realism gets you. 



KaiserWilhelmShatner #4 Posted May 21 2019 - 03:22

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Play a Tiger I stock.

There is your pain realism.



Devil__Anse #5 Posted May 21 2019 - 04:16

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you're absolutely right because any gun that missed as much as the guns in this game would be melted down for scrap metal

ChaseR392 #6 Posted May 21 2019 - 04:32

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View PostDevil__Anse, on May 21 2019 - 04:16, said:

you're absolutely right because any gun that missed as much as the guns in this game would be melted down for scrap metal

 

The guns in the game are more accurate than historical weapons.... especially on the move.

Omega_Weapon #7 Posted May 21 2019 - 04:42

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View Postskhend25, on May 20 2019 - 20:38, said:

Has there ever been any real discussion to make a realistic mode similar to the competition?

 

I for one would love to see the game become a little more realistic and more historically based. The problem is when you go that route games become more complicated and more difficult for casual players. Wargaming does not want this game to be too niche, so they came up with this current arcade/sim hybrid. Truthfully, they were more concerned about historical accuracy in the beginning and have been slowly tilting more towards the world of make believe as the years have progressed.

Devil__Anse #8 Posted May 21 2019 - 04:43

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View PostChaseR392, on May 20 2019 - 21:32, said:

 

The guns in the game are more accurate than historical weapons.... especially on the move.

 

lol...on the move yes...sitting dead still fully aimed?  you clearly don't understand how ballistics work

GeorgePreddy #9 Posted May 21 2019 - 04:59

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View PostChaseR392, on May 21 2019 - 00:32, said:

 

The guns in the game are more accurate than historical weapons.... especially on the move.

 

Much more accurate than real WWII tanks.

 

People blow smoke about German 88s hitting enemy tanks at very long distances, but what they don't talk about is that it practically never happened until after several ranging shots were fired.

 

Here's what the real test of accuracy performed by the Army in WWII showed:

 

U.S. Army Armored Board's report on still tank gun accuracy using stabilizer gyro

a) Using the tank cannon, 50% hits may be expected on a tank front at 500 yards, and 25% hits may be expected at 1,000 yards.

 

To compare WoT tanks to that:

 

Fully aimed shots by "4TankersAndDog", a Tanking With Science video, results:

Firing with 5 different tank / gun combinations to test accuracy of fully aimed shots in WoT.

Fired from 400 meters range at a stationary IS-7 front.

 

 

CDC using food to have a .31 accuracy    = 97% hits

KV-1S with 85mm & .39 accuracy           = 92%

T-34 76mm, .45 accuracy                          = 90%

KV-1 122mm, .51 accuracy                       = 87%

KV-2 152 mm, .56 accuracy                      = 77%

 

So you see, WoT tank guns are more accurate than the real deals.  That's the reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 



XturbohawkX #10 Posted May 21 2019 - 05:05

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View PostDevil__Anse, on May 21 2019 - 04:16, said:

you're absolutely right because any gun that missed as much as the guns in this game would be melted down for scrap metal

 

I've said this soooo many times to my clan members...I'm a collector of all sorts of firearms and if even ONE shot as bad as these tanks I would literally throw it into the smelter.
 


the_dude_76 #11 Posted May 21 2019 - 05:28

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View Postskhend25, on May 20 2019 - 19:38, said:

 

Has there ever been any real discussion to make a realistic mode similar to the competition?

 

No, because clanking around at 6 mph wouldn't be any fun...



tod914 #12 Posted May 21 2019 - 05:41

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View Postthe_dude_76, on May 20 2019 - 23:28, said:

 

No, because clanking around at 6 mph wouldn't be any fun...

 

You never tried a Tog.

ChaseR392 #13 Posted May 21 2019 - 05:42

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View PostDevil__Anse, on May 21 2019 - 04:43, said:

 

lol...on the move yes...sitting dead still fully aimed?  you clearly don't understand how ballistics work

 

Actually I do... and you are absolutely dreaming if you think that a WW2 era tank can hit a moving (or even stationary) target at 800 to 100 yards with the first shot.

 

Artillery pieces have little in common with grandad's deer rifle...

 

If you've ever handled a WW2 vintage rifle... notice how often the bores are in relatively poor condition. Why? Corrosively primed ammo and lack of cleaning. You don't field strip your rifle to clean it at night if the Germans are camped 1000 yards away. I would assume that WW2 tankers felt the same way....

 

Artillery pieces wear out their bores much faster than an infantry rifle.... do you think they always had spares readily available? The Germans could barely scrounge up the fuel for their tanks towards the end. Search for the YouTube video of the Sherman firing in slow motion and look at how much that round wobbles coming out the bore. Is that barrel worn out? Likely.... but at 20k for an NOS replacement (that is a current price BTW) I'd get as many rounds out of it as I could.

 

How about wartime ammo tolerances? Every shot surplus rifle ammo? None of it is "match grade" with the exception of 7.5mm Swiss. Its all over the place with powder charge and projectile weight vs. modern match or hunting ammo. I'd be willing to be large caliber rounds are the same.

 

Sighting? How good were the optics? How often was a gun re-sighted? Even real artillery pieces have some dispersion... like it or not the dispersion circle in the game for nearly every tank is scarcely the twice the size of the a tank at max view range. Do you think they aimed for cupolas or drivers hatches back then? No, they aimed center mass and hoped for the best.

 

Do you know how many variables are computed by the targeting system of a modern tank? Wind, temperature, relative humidity, temperature of the barrel.... this list goes on. 


Edited by ChaseR392, May 21 2019 - 05:44.


scHnuuudle_bop #14 Posted May 21 2019 - 08:29

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View Postskhend25, on May 21 2019 - 02:38, said:

Just wondering, playing low tier and I have a question, why are tanks modeled with such ridiculous non-historical speeds, turning ability, and the whole rocking back and forth crap... those early tanks transmissions would shred the first couple of times you even attempted it.

 

Has there ever been any real discussion to make a realistic mode similar to the competition?

 

The game developers wanted a game based on Eastern front armoured battles.

 

To make it popular, it would need to be both simplified and accelerated.

 

Zombie crew members, tracks repairs in seconds rather than hours. Just the ammo  and fuel amounts carried on board is exaggerated.

The accuracy, 80% versus the 50% using optical sights. HE shells, would do way more than injure crew. Long range artillery, towed artillery and AT guns. Panzerfausts and anti tank mines.

Dive bombers, high alititude bombers, fighters with cannons.

 

People already take this too seriously. The detail, complexity and challenges, using their current game model. Heck there are WWII, modern tanks, prototypes and some, just blueprints.

 

It would be interesting to combine all three games though. Naval landings onto "Island maps". Warship players would need to stop, slow and the damage red teams landingcraft  bots, provide some ground support.

 

Airfield islands would need to be captured for air bases, otherwise range only to first 100m along map edge.

Air battles would then be fought with the pursuit planes, dive bombers. Better superiority, more available for helping the tanks and battleships.. 



the_dude_76 #15 Posted May 21 2019 - 15:03

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View Posttod914, on May 20 2019 - 22:41, said:

 

You never tried a Tog.

 

Actually I have, it proves my point...

Anublister #16 Posted May 21 2019 - 20:52

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Because it's a game, not a simulation.




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