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[ST] Low Tier HP Rebalance

low tier hp hitpoints balance supertest

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DomoSapien #1 Posted May 21 2019 - 16:41

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Onto the Supertest Soon: An HP Boost for Tier I–VI Vehicles

Hey tankers!

We are about to start a closed test for a hit point increase to all Tier I–VI vehicles.

We assume that the adjustments to HP pools will make low-tier and mid-tier vehicles last longer in battle, and at the same time make the transition to top-tier vehicles more comfortable. The Supertest will show if our assumptions are correct.

Why do we intend to give Tiers I–VI an HP increase?

While researching vehicles and going up the tiers every player can observe (and feel) the increments to their tanks’ stats and overall battle efficiency. One of the key parameters impacting a vehicle’s efficiency is its HP pool. Currently the HP pool growth curve is too steep from Tier I to Tier VI, and more gradual from Tier VII to Tier X (see the comparative graph below).

 

 

This makes playing low-to-mid-tier vehicles less comfortable than it should be. When facing vehicles of a higher tier in battle, you can feel a starker difference between your HP pool and theirs. Because of this more pronounced distinction, the battles tend to last less at low-to-mid tiers.

What do we plan to do, exactly?

To make the HP amount progression more even, we intend to test an increase to HP pools of all Tier I–VI vehicles. The increment will be different for every single tier in the closed test, and will be defined by the same quotient for every vehicle of that tier. (See the quotient table below; a quotient of 1 equals to the current value.)

The Supertest HP Quotients

Tier

I

II

III

IV

V

VI

VII

VIII

IX

X

HP pool adjustment quotient applied

2.14

1.99

1.78

1.53

1.31

1.12

1

1

1

1

As per the table, the Tier I vehicles will receive the largest relative boost to their HP pools (+114%) for the duration of the Supertest. The reason is that currently the HP difference between the tiers is the sharper the lower the tier goes.

For example, the MS-1, a Tier I Soviet tank, will have an HP pool of 215 points (instead of 100 points; rounded up) in the coming Supertest. The T-45, a Tier II Soviet tank, will get to 280 points (instead of 140 points; rounded up).

The changes to the HP pools will allow to:

·        Soften the transition from a lower to a higher tier while following a branch

·        Increase the mean survival time in low-to-mid-tier battles, making them more comfortable both for newcomers and experienced players researching a new branch

It should be noted that we are talking solely about the first testing stage here—the one where we are going to check the impact of HP pools on battle statistics. The exact adjustment quotients are not final for any tier and may change. In case we get positive results, we will make a separate announcement of our decision to bring the changes into the game.

 

Edited by DomoSapien, May 21 2019 - 16:54.


FrozenKemp #2 Posted May 21 2019 - 16:47

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I think this is an excellent idea - by reducing the ability of their tanks to be taken out quickly, the value of burst damage will be reduced and new players will have more of a chance to react. 

 

P.S. you have labeled tier VII as tier VIII in your HP Quotients chart. 


Edited by FrozenKemp, May 21 2019 - 16:48.


Gothraul #3 Posted May 21 2019 - 16:48

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ThatTrafficCone #4 Posted May 21 2019 - 16:49

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Hey Domo!

 

I've been preaching for something like this since 2015. I think a 6:1 HP/Damage ratio would be ideal across all tiers (that is, a tank should be able to destroy itself in at least six shots), and it's nice to see that's being applied here. It's already kinda present in the high tiers, so it's nice to see the low tiers getting the same treatment. But I think it's a misstep to look at only health. Damage should be considered too.

 

I can't find the original forum post I made, but I do have a post over on the subreddit where I go more in depth about this specific thing. I know it passed over your desks' at some point in the past, but maybe you guys might find it useful again?

 

Edit: I could email you a more comprehensive thing if you'd like.


Edited by ThatTrafficCone, May 21 2019 - 16:58.


Insanefriend #5 Posted May 21 2019 - 16:49

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This is needed quite badly, I've been thinking the hp difference per tier at these levels has been too great for awhile.  Just look at a tier seven heavy from a tier six on the same line, it's like a 40% hp boost.

 

One thing not mentioned about this change is the option to open up the mm a bit to allow tier 1-3 tanks to see each other in battle.  Once the gap in hp goes down widening the tier spread could work.


Edited by Insanefriend, May 21 2019 - 16:53.


DomoSapien #6 Posted May 21 2019 - 16:56

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View PostFrozenKemp, on May 21 2019 - 09:47, said:

I think this is an excellent idea - by reducing the ability of their tanks to be taken out quickly, the value of burst damage will be reduced and new players will have more of a chance to react. 

 

P.S. you have labeled tier VII as tier VIII in your HP Quotients chart. 

fixed, thanks! That's what I get for copy-pasting the text instead of paraphrasing.

View PostThatTrafficCone, on May 21 2019 - 09:49, said:

Hey Domo!

 

I've been preaching for something like this since 2015. I think a 6:1 HP/Damage ratio would be ideal across all tiers (that is, a tank should be able to destroy itself in at least six shots), and it's nice to see that's being applied here. It's already kinda present in the high tiers, so it's nice to see the low tiers getting the same treatment. But I think it's a misstep to look at only health. Damage should be considered too.

 

I can't find the original forum post I made, but I do have a post over on the subreddit where I go more in depth about this specific thing. I know it passed over your desks' at some point in the past, but maybe you guys might find it useful again?

View PostInsanefriend, on May 21 2019 - 09:49, said:

This is needed quite badly, I've been thinking the hp difference per tier at these levels has been too great for awhile.  Just look at a tier seven heavy from a tier six on the same line, it's like a 40% hp boost.

 

One thing not mentioned about this change is the option to open up the mm a bit to allow tier 1-3 tanks to see each other in battle.  Once the gap in hp goes down widening the tier spread could work.

 

Keep in mind that this is just one of the first steps in low-to-mid-tier rebalancing. HP definitely isn't the only thing being taken into consideration, it's just the first bit of news we have to share with you guys regarding low tier rebalance.



Nacho71AR #7 Posted May 21 2019 - 17:00

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That will likely translate into longer battle times. Better players will just be able to farm more. Queue times will increase as less tanks will be available over time for battle. Ammo management will account for battle outcome as well aka more ammo spent during battle. Tanks with low ammo count will suffer. Is this an attempt at balancing the game? Dunno about this one guys....

Hellsfog #8 Posted May 21 2019 - 17:03

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View PostNacho71AR, on May 21 2019 - 11:00, said:

That will likely translate into longer battle times. Better players will just be able to farm more. Queue times will increase as less tanks will be available over time for battle. Ammo management will account for battle outcome as well aka more ammo spent during battle. Tanks with low ammo count will suffer. Is this an attempt at balancing the game? Dunno about this one guys....

 

From the start the ratio of damage output to health pool as been bad in the low tiers. Basically, one clip and you're done.  This is a good, long over due adjustment, which WG shouldn't due because the amount of ammo a small minority of tanks, if any, would also need to be adjusted? You can't be serious. 

Garandster #9 Posted May 21 2019 - 17:08

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RIP the WN8 of the habitual low tier stat padders. This is a great change I'm surprised to see, and I think if they go through with giving everyone Sixth Sense, will really help the new player experience.

YANKEE137 #10 Posted May 21 2019 - 17:15

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I Like, but superior HP is all poor TOG has left going for it-please adjust accordingly.

_Tsavo_ #11 Posted May 21 2019 - 17:16

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Now if only this was addressed eons ago.  We've been saying for years the new player experience is about as fun as a boisterous and wet fart.  

 

HOWEVER, kudos on recognizing the issues and making moves to try to retain new players and make the introduction to the game more enjoyable.  Well done.  *Applause*



godofdun #12 Posted May 21 2019 - 17:56

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View Post_Tsavo_, on May 21 2019 - 09:16, said:

Now if only this was addressed eons ago.  We've been saying for years the new player experience is about as fun as a boisterous and wet fart.  

 

HOWEVER, kudos on recognizing the issues and making moves to try to retain new players and make the introduction to the game more enjoyable.  Well done.  *Applause*

 

This, it's very late, but very good.  I'd given up years ago on something like this ever happening.

Mikosah #13 Posted May 21 2019 - 17:58

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A solid proposal. It will at least help solve the problem of random, instant vaporization. And I'm glad that its being done via hit points rather than just adding 300+ mm of armor to everything. But remember the other half of this equation- that there are situations where a player should take massive amounts of damage and die quickly. When a player properly flanks an enemy, for instance, he should be able to consistently unload massive damage onto him. 

 

So the idea should be in the end scheme of things that players ought to have generous hit-point pools to absorb random potshots (rather than excessive armor), but that there should be ways to take away tons of hit points when attacking an enemy properly. Sniping weakspots, hitting modules, flanking, et cetera should be consistently and generously rewarded. 



CaptainAlpha7 #14 Posted May 21 2019 - 18:59

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Here's the thing though, if this makes it to live, at least for the first month or two, the seals will be clubbed harder than ever before. I'm assuming Minsk has already considered this, but I suspect that a bunch of new players will be turned away during this time.

BadCorps #15 Posted May 21 2019 - 19:02

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I hope this works out. It's kinda sucky to get 2 shot in tier I from a MS-1 or a LTR packing the stock gun

RoyalGreenPC #16 Posted May 21 2019 - 19:13

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View PostThatTrafficCone, on May 21 2019 - 11:49, said:

I think a 6:1 HP/Damage ratio would be ideal across all tiers (that is, a tank should be able to destroy itself in at least six shots), and it's nice to see that's being applied here. It's already kinda present in the high tiers, so it's nice to see the low tiers getting the same treatment.

 

"Puny tanks, they need 6 shots to kill a tank." -FV183

cloudwalkr #17 Posted May 21 2019 - 19:20

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View PostCaptainAlpha7, on May 21 2019 - 18:59, said:

Here's the thing though, if this makes it to live, at least for the first month or two, the seals will be clubbed harder than ever before. I'm assuming Minsk has already considered this, but I suspect that a bunch of new players will be turned away during this time.

 

there will always be clubbers.  Only way to stop that is limit how many games you must have to be able to play that tier...which will never happen, and shouldn't happen.  The hp gain is a good thing regardless of the clubbers that will be there anyway.

 

giving people more hp and more time in the battle is a positive.  In my opinion the ones that would leave due to clubbing will leave either way.



Crypticshock #18 Posted May 21 2019 - 19:38

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While this change is long overdue and highly needed... I feel the game still needs another issue addressed; certainly in low tiers. DERP guns, High Alpha TD guns and High Alpha Arty.

 

...this is going to make it a very strange time for those doing wn8 expecteds.



Tuzban #19 Posted May 21 2019 - 20:01

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View PostCrypticshock, on May 21 2019 - 18:38, said:

...this is going to make it a very strange time for those doing wn8 expecteds.

 

How so? I don't remember them adjusting expected values when tanks were buffed/nerfed. I wouldn't expect them to do it now, either.

 

Which, of course, will make wn8 padding at low tiers so much easier than before. More hp to farm, with more room for error, will lead to massive dpg gains.



IndygoEEI #20 Posted May 21 2019 - 21:34

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Ducky gets 460 HP?  I CAN ACTUALLY HAS TRADING POWER!?





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