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How armor works in this game?


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Loghaen #1 Posted May 26 2019 - 16:43

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Hello!

i'm new to this game (I barely have enough battles to be able to post here), but there was this situation I found myself in,

I was playing with my tank I got from a referral code, Excelsior, and during a random battle I encountered a heavy Tier IV enemy tank, a DW2

I managed to kill it, not before some of it's shots went through the front of my tank's Turret, so I decided to check how thick it was, and how powerful my enemy gun was

but it seemed to had 112mm of protection, however the guns available to the DW2 had 67mm and 43mm of penetration, and it left me wondering:

How does the armor in this game works?

Could that possibly been a glitch?

oh and, how do I counter artillery? I mean, I used to play World of Warships on my girlfriend's account, and there were many strategies to counter aircraft carriers, like sticking together to increase AA efficiency,

skills and other stuff, but here in WOT I couldn't come up with anything really effective, I mean I tried to drive in "S" but splash damage got my tracks anyway, I tried moving fowards and backwards, but again Splash damaged either got my tracks or injured my crew anyways, I tried camping or just staying behind buildings, rocks or other tall stuff (cowered in fear), but I lost most of the action during the battle (and my team mates called me an idiot for not fulfilling the hole of a heavy tank) well, any help when it comes to artillery will be appreciated, plus there's the thing i'm going for Soviet Heavy tanks, KV-1 I think? already hard to avoid artillery, but it seems i'll be even harder than it is with the T-28.

Anyway, this is my first post here in the community and i'm most sorry for the giant text, thank you for anything helpful really! :)

 



the_dude_76 #2 Posted May 26 2019 - 16:51

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Welcome aboard! Just so you know, it's going to take you a LONG time to figure out all of the nuances of the game. Your best bet is to head over to YouTube, there are a ton of WoT content creators there with lots of how to videos. I haven't actually watched this one but I've heard good things about the creator and it seems like a good place for you to start- 

 



NL_Celt #3 Posted May 26 2019 - 16:52

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tanks.gg is where to go to check armour and compare with various guns. Load up your excelsior, use the compare tab next to 3D model, pick whatevr tank you like, go to 3D model and click it to "live" view. Then you can play with the guns and shells of the compare tank and see what could happen.

 

You'll find the 50mm using APCR will pen the turret of an Excelsior.


Edited by NL_Celt, May 26 2019 - 16:57.


tow2_b #4 Posted May 26 2019 - 16:52

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Welcome to the game - fair warning it's a tough one to play, but starting with questions and getting help with learning will make it better.

 

You're definitely going to want to watch all of the official game mechanics videos (attaching the one related to your question here). They explain a lot, and there are several more than you'll want to also watch (on vision/camo/spotting/etc), but these will get you started on understanding the complex rules behind the game.

 

You'll also need to learn vehicles, weak spots, maps and more to be good at the game, but those will just take experience and battles to learn more. It can be tough going, don't worry about your win rate and stuff for awhile... just try to improve! Good luck!

 



FrozenKemp #5 Posted May 26 2019 - 16:59

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The Excelsior turret in particular does have a weak spot which you will see if you look at it on tanks.gg.

 

As far as artillery goes, you're on the right track with trying evasive movement, but it can be hard when you're driving a heavy tank. Something important to keep in mind is that you can remain visible for 10 seconds (IIRC) after being spotted and then breaking sight lines. So for instance, say you duck behind a building for cover temporarily and plan to try to rush to another building. It may be useful to wait 10 seconds behind that building... maybe making small moves suggesting you are going to go the other way. Then when you know you aren't spotted, you can gather up some speed before emerging from behind the building and try to get to the next one.

 

Be sure to bring a small repair kit for your Excelsior as you should be able to afford it with its credit earning, and being able to repair your tracks can be life or death.

 

Good luck!



Loghaen #6 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:00

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View PostNL_Celt, on May 26 2019 - 16:52, said:

tanks.gg is where to go to check armour and compare with various guns. Load up your excelsior, use the compare tab next to 3D model, pick whatevr tank you like, go to 3D model and click it to "live" view. Then you can play with the guns and shells of the compare tank and see what could happen.

 

You'll find the 50mm using APCR will pen the turret of an Excelsior.

 

Thank's for the tip, I just checked that out, I saw that Excelsior front turret armor is really 112mm or armor, and that the DW2 gun could only penetrate 67mm with his best gun, I think it really was a glitch :)

NL_Celt #7 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:05

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View PostLoghaen, on May 26 2019 - 12:30, said:

 

Thank's for the tip, I just checked that out, I saw that Excelsior front turret armor is really 112mm or armor, and that the DW2 gun could only penetrate 67mm with his best gun, I think it really was a glitch :)

 

No glitch. If you do as i said and then switch the ammo type for the 5cm gun from AP to APCR you'll see the turret in "LIVE" view is a nice green colour which means easy to pen. It's a 74% chance to pen. If I could figure out how to print screen I could show you the figure.

Loghaen #8 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:08

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View PostNL_Celt, on May 26 2019 - 17:05, said:

 

No glitch. If you do as i said and then switch the ammo type for the 5cm gun from AP to APCR you'll see the turret in "LIVE" view is a nice green colour which means easy to pen. It's a 74% chance to pen. If I could figure out how to print screen I could show you the figure.

 

APCR? there's a special ammo called APCR rather than HE and AP? damn must have missed that in the tutorial, how do I equip one APCR?

NL_Celt #9 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:12

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View PostLoghaen, on May 26 2019 - 12:38, said:

 

APCR? there's a special ammo called APCR rather than HE and AP? damn must have missed that in the tutorial, how do I equip one APCR?

 

You have to buy them in- game for your tanks. Go to service. In tanks.gg just look at where the AP shell is shown and you can switch it there easily. 

Loghaen #10 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:20

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View PostNL_Celt, on May 26 2019 - 17:12, said:

 

You have to buy them in- game for your tanks. Go to service. In tanks.gg just look at where the AP shell is shown and you can switch it there easily. 

 

But it's very expensive, 2800 silver per unit of ammo, depending on how you look at it, almost looks pay to win, more expensive, but better than average ammo, but now I inclined to believe i shouldn't play heavy tanks, since they're slow, and rely on their armor to survive, but with that special ammo thing, it really makes me think them as useless then, I was going to try and unlock the KV-1, i'm starting to doubt that, maybe I should switch out then? I would really like to unlock Legendary tanks like the Panther, the M4 or T-34, they're mediums and should have lesser armor, and be faster, right?

NL_Celt #11 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:27

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View PostLoghaen, on May 26 2019 - 12:50, said:

 

But it's very expensive, 2800 silver per unit of ammo, depending on how you look at it, almost looks pay to win, more expensive, but better than average ammo, but now I inclined to believe i shouldn't play heavy tanks, since they're slow, and rely on their armor to survive, but with that special ammo thing, it really makes me think them as useless then, I was going to try and unlock the KV-1, i'm starting to doubt that, maybe I should switch out then? I would really like to unlock Legendary tanks like the Panther, the M4 or T-34, they're mediums and should have lesser armor, and be faster, right?

 

KV-1 is still excellent and the armour still works but you have to learn how to use it best. That will take time but using tank.gg you can rotate tanks to see how angling and sidescraping can work for you., check how hull down would work. Lots of discussion about overuse of APCR, but it is in the game and yes it can cost a lot of credits. For most tanks it's good to carry some for those particularly tough tanks.

 

M4 and T-34 are excellent tanks to get used to the game. Once you get there plan on staying there for a good while and develop your crews and get fully upgraded and earn lots of credits to be able to afford equipment, consumables and shells. Make sure you use the 57mm in the T-34. By far the best gun. Carry some APCR as you can manage to afford it but the AP will pen most tanks somewhere. M4 can use either the top 76mm or the 105mm derp gun with HE.



Loghaen #12 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:38

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View PostNL_Celt, on May 26 2019 - 17:27, said:

 

KV-1 is still excellent and the armour still works but you have to learn how to use it best. That will take time but using tank.gg you can rotate tanks to see how angling and sidescraping can work for you., check how hull down would work. Lots of discussion about overuse of APCR, but it is in the game and yes it can cost a lot of credits. For most tanks it's good to carry some for those particularly tough tanks.

 

M4 and T-34 are excellent tanks to get used to the game. Once you get there plan on staying there for a good while and develop your crews and get fully upgraded and earn lots of credits to be able to afford equipment, consumables and shells. Make sure you use the 57mm in the T-34. By far the best gun. Carry some APCR as you can manage to afford it but the AP will pen most tanks somewhere. M4 can use either the top 76mm or the 105mm derp gun with HE.

 

Hey thanks for the patience and all the answers!

I think I'll stick with KV-1 because I should unlock it sooner than the others, but one day....

just one more question, I don't even have a hundred battles yet, but i'm already (really) close to Tier 5, and as far as my Experience from World of Warships goes around, it should really get harder as I move up tiers, where you should I stay to better learn the game? I mean to avoid being in a high tier battle and being next to useless...



PunCzarBlintz #13 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:52

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Tier 5 is an excellent place to learn the game.

Suggest T-34 Russian with the 57mm and the KV-1 (experiment with the guns, there is a wide variety).

Also note that there are soft spots on most tanks (ie)  the numbers are have are average armor for turret, hull etc.

Angling your armor is taken into effect, angle it enough and shells bounce. (Until they shoot another not so angled part of your tank .)

It is the complexity and randomness of the game that keeps me playing.

Happy Tanking....



NL_Celt #14 Posted May 26 2019 - 17:52

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View PostLoghaen, on May 26 2019 - 13:08, said:

 

Hey thanks for the patience and all the answers!

I think I'll stick with KV-1 because I should unlock it sooner than the others, but one day....

just one more question, I don't even have a hundred battles yet, but i'm already (really) close to Tier 5, and as far as my Experience from World of Warships goes around, it should really get harder as I move up tiers, where you should I stay to better learn the game? I mean to avoid being in a high tier battle and being next to useless...

 

Good place is tier 5 with tanks like the KV, T-34, M4. Try to avoid light/scout tanks like the Chaffee for a good while yet as scouting requires a lot of map knowledge, good crews and equipment and battle mechanics knowledge. But those mediums and some heavies are a good start. You can also check out some TD's like going to the M10 or Stug IIIG over time.

 

You'll probably still find tier 5 a challenge as you probably don't have skilled crews yet and your own knowledge no doubt is lacking. So no problem to play in the  3-5 range. Still some fun tanks in 3 & 4. As mentioned above, lots to learn, don't be in a hurry.



SapFireMC #15 Posted May 26 2019 - 18:26

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Fun isn’t something one considers when balancing the universe. But this… does put a smile on my face.

Well starting off, World of Tanks can be incredibly difficult to play especially for newcomers. I'll try to answer some of your questions from the beginning that hasn't been answered fully or I would like to put some input into it myself.

 

1. APCR isn't always a premium shell ammunition. It is, however, the main premium shell in lower tiers. (Alternative name for these premium ammunition is usually referred to as "gold" or "prammo") Unlike normal AP, there's something in this game called normalization. Normalization is a thing where shells can have this effect of turning its horizontal momentum into vertical momentum. This may sound confusing, but basically what it means is that a shell can negate and take off sloping of an armor depending on its angle of effectiveness. AP rounds have 5 degrees, while APCR only has 2 or 3 (cant remember). What this means is that an AP round hitting a sloped part of the armor can take off 5 degrees effectively and make the armor less thick effectively. An APCR round only takes off 2 or 3 degrees. An APCR round also has more velocity than an AP round, meaning that if you're shooting at long distances, APCR will travel faster than AP, meaning you'll need to guide your shot less. Both AP and APCR shells lose penetration over distances. Currently, APCR as premium ammunition practically has no setbacks compared to AP other than the normalization and price. Continuing on with other premium ammunition. HEAT (High explosive anti-tank) (You should be familiar with this in world of warships) is the next premium ammunition. This as a premium ammunition is very common in high tiers. Its almost always used as premium ammunition, and only some tanks in the game currently use it as regular ammunition (so no cost increase). Unlike APCR or AP, HEAT has no normalization and has this explosion effect. Although it does not splash for damage, this makes it very huge weakness. Unlike AP or APCR, HEAT cannot shoot through objects. It basically disappears on contact with an object. This includes tracks or spaced armor of an enemy, which is incredibly annoying because you can shoot a 300mm pen HEAT round into the side of a 50mm armor, and have it not do damage by shooting at the tracks. Now drawbacks out of the way, HEAT has similar velocity to AP most of the time, sometimes higher. However unlike the other shells, HEAT does not lose penetration over distances.

2. HE shells are like HEAT, except they do more damage than AP, APCR or HEAT. The issue is that most of the time, HE is very low in penetration. And like HEAT, it disappears on contact with any object and has no normalization. It can be absorbed into tracks or spaced armor as well. However, HE can splash the enemy if it does not penetrate. So say for example if an HE shell is supposed to do 500 damage, it might splash for 90-120 damage instead. Sometimes if HE hits really powerful armor, it wont do damage at all. The important thing here is though that HE cannot bounce, it can only not penetrate. Sometimes, HE can be premium ammunition. This is called HESH for british tanks, or just a variant of HE. These premium HE shells can either have more penetration, or more damage.

3. Tier 5 is a very nice spot to learn the game. I suggest grinding up different lines up to tier 5, which allows you to start going into higher tiers with all different kinds of tanks so you're not just stuck with 1 tank at tier 8 and everything else at tier 3.

4. Artillery is very difficult to avoid. I suggest not sticking in a huge bunch of crowds with your team, because that just attracts artillery to splash HE onto all of you. (Artillery has a pretty big HE splash radius). But don't be too alone either unless if you're fast, because then arty can just target you and pluck you off one at a time. Hide behind cover where you know artillery cannot hit you (behind a mountain, rock, anything). And never stay 100% still. If you're wiggling, do it in an unpredictable manner. You can go left and right forever, and artillery can just shoot in front of you and it'll hit no matter what.

5. Spotting plays a big role in this game. If your crew is not 100% trained, then you cannot pick something called 6th sense. 6th sense allows you to know if someone has spotted you, 3 seconds after you've been spotted. With an experienced player, this can indirectly give away enemy positions if you know the map well, and allow you to act quickly to avoid artillery or enemy fire.



dunniteowl #16 Posted May 27 2019 - 00:48

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Read the Links in this:

 

The WoT Welcome Package (version 1)

 

Paying specific attention to the link titled Battle Mechanics -- Global Wiki.  It is linked at Vision and Spotting in my links.  Armor and Penetration comes later enough that the link in this sentence takes you straight to Aiming and you should read from there if that's as far as your interests lie.  I highly recommend, however, that you use the WWP and use it often.  I still do.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



RC_1140 #17 Posted May 27 2019 - 01:07

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If its not been said, most tanks rely on angling armor to not be penned. Very few tanks can present flat armor and not be penned. Some tanks come with pre angled (or rounded) armor, some still need angled more than that though. Its also worth learning about overmatch and autobounce angles. And of course spotting. 

 

(and DW2 is op)



ethics_gradient #18 Posted May 27 2019 - 04:21

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you carefully angle your armour, learn how to sidescrape, play hull down, and then none of it matters because people press the "2" button.

Amaruk #19 Posted May 27 2019 - 07:41

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View PostLoghaen, on May 26 2019 - 17:00, said:

Thank's for the tip, I just checked that out, I saw that Excelsior front turret armor is really 112mm or armor, and that the DW2 gun could only penetrate 67mm with his best gun, I think it really was a glitch :)

 

DW2's AP does have 67 avg pen at 100 yds, but APCR has 130.

 

Spoiler

 

 

View PostNL_Celt, on May 26 2019 - 17:05, said:

 

No glitch. If you do as i said and then switch the ammo type for the 5cm gun from AP to APCR you'll see the turret in "LIVE" view is a nice green colour which means easy to pen. It's a 74% chance to pen. If I could figure out how to print screen I could show you the figure.

 

Here you go.  Excelsior vs DW2, 50mm, APCR.

 

Spoiler

 

 

View PostRC_1140, on May 27 2019 - 01:07, said:

If its not been said, most tanks rely on angling armor to not be penned. Very few tanks can present flat armor and not be penned.

 

To illustrate this, here is the same comparison above, but with Excelsior angled.

 

Spoiler

 






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