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Skill based match making


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RichardNoggin_dy07 #1 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:11

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Its long over due for some skill based match making. this last year I have noticed most every game is a landslide one way or the other.

base it on a xvm scale into 3 groups


 

1.  red- orange players

2. yellow -green players

3. blue purple and the bots and ai  accounts that didn't make it to group 1


 

when a battle starts and 1 team has over half red players and the other team has no less than yellow players.. can anyone tell me the outcome..  landslide after landslide... ... haven't seen a " close game"  in months.. its not the matching of tier vehicles as much as it is matching the skill of the team.


 

because you know, everyone wants all their teammates to have 50k battles and wn8's of 500 or less. and the double digit teammates with 10's of thousands of battles really help out a lot in a pinch!

 

 


 

personally I would " PAY" for this type of match making, and a lot of others have stated the same. As well as be willing to wait longer que times for a much more matched team and opponent team.


Edited by RichardNoggin_dy07, May 31 2019 - 18:14.


Sgt_King_Gunner #2 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:24

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Just like everyone wants a 50% win rate.

 

Which is what a real skill based matchmaker would achieve.  Make every battle a 50% chance of win for everyone.  

I wonder how many people who call for skill based matchmaker want what it would actually achieve?  Or how many have actually thought it through to realize that it would achieve 50% WR.

How many people who are now winning 60% or more of their battles would pay to lose more often?



BoredSightsNA #3 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:27

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Skill-based MM doesn't work. It discourages players with better than average stats to play. The reason for landslides is that once players get demoralized they become kamikaze's.

 

One way to keep a positive outlook on a battle is to turn off win-chance stats. I haven't looked at win-chance stats for many years.


Edited by BoredSightsNA, May 31 2019 - 18:30.


hikerjon1 #4 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:27

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Is it already time for another thread on SBMM?

 

Yeesh. :facepalm:

 

 



RichardNoggin_dy07 #5 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:33

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^    0-15   that's fk'n fantastic !     happens way to often.  look at the lineup ..  WG EPIC FAIL !    putting my CC away for good on this game..

__WarChild__ #6 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:41

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View PostRichardNoggin_dy07, on May 31 2019 - 11:33, said:

^    0-15   that's fk'n fantastic !     happens way to often.  look at the lineup ..  WG EPIC FAIL !    putting my CC away for good on this game..

 

I did a thread a long time ago about Un-Winnable Rates (games that cannot be won).  Man, did people get upset over the concept that there are games out there that just couldn't be won.  The simple fact is, if MM doesn't give you the opportunity to win, you're not going to no matter how good you are.

bockscar43 #7 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:42

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If you are a tomato like my self, yes I would pay for a level battlefield. Also, eliminate mods that show your 201 prior to battle to enemies. Sbmm is the fear of the stats mongers, the only thing to fear is fear itself, if unworkable, return to the old system and thus ending the speculation as to sbmm merits.

DUKE_AUTY #8 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:45

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Yes, please bring my W/R up to 50%.

__WarChild__ #9 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:49

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FYI - this game should never be about statistics or winrates.  It should be about the ability to enjoy playing each game, and to have the ability to win each and every game.  That is NOT how the system is set up now.

455_hero #10 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:50

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View Post__WarChild__, on May 31 2019 - 12:29, said:

What are you talking about OP?  We have skill based matchmaking NOW. 


See:

 

I am the equivalent or better than a platoon of purple players.  

 

I just failed to carry this one game:

I can be such a noob sometimes.

 

Clearly the matchmaking algorithm can determine the greatness of individual players and tries to "challenge" them with appropriate enemies.  Every time I take out a Tier X tank to start my day, I am challenged.

 

Please don't suggest to Wargaming that they do something to even the teams or make things more fair.  I don't know what I would do with myself.

 

:trollface:

 

 

That's so the "red" guys can learn the game faster! I'm sure the stat/chart guy can explain why you're looking at this wrong. Thx for sharing!

Funky_Nuts #11 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:54

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This has to be one of the dumbest threads i've ever read 

Hellsfog #12 Posted May 31 2019 - 18:57

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View Posthikerjon1, on May 31 2019 - 12:27, said:

Is it already time for another thread on SBMM?

 

Yeesh. :facepalm:

 

 

 

There are many and they are all as [edited].

hazmatman #13 Posted May 31 2019 - 19:02

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View Post__WarChild__, on May 31 2019 - 18:41, said:

 

I did a thread a long time ago about Un-Winnable Rates (games that cannot be won).  Man, did people get upset over the concept that there are games out there that just couldn't be won.  The simple fact is, if MM doesn't give you the opportunity to win, you're not going to no matter how good you are.

 

True. Even playing vanilla, as I do, many times you can just tell by how folks deploy out of the spawn the probability of win vs loss...and many people will adjust their play accordingly (or not), watching an entire team stop in open ground to all try to shoot a sui-scout (and die or lose half their HP in exchange) and then that influences the outcome...and that can happen with a team filled with greens and blues or one overflowing with tomatoes - I have seen plenty of good players come off a string of bad matches and decide "screw these clowns, they are on their own" (even say it in chat) and they go into 100% chai-snipe farm mode...and of course the team loses. Lots of ways to throw a match.

 

Sure there may be matches that might be considered "un-winnable" before the timer hits zero, but that doesn't mean that you can't take something away from them (BTW I am not implying Warchild is saying un-winnable means unplayable), but I have learned more about map use, spotting, concealment and tactics in some un-winnable matches than from any number of ruffle-stomps. In any case, SBMM is unlikely to occur nor is it likely to solve a problem without creating a new one. As of now, this is the game we have, and the player base that shows up every time you click the Random Battle button. You can learn a lot from using what you have, and you can't fully blame a sub-50% WR on "too many unicums" when I clearly see plenty of sub-2K match players free-XP'ing and Premium Tank buying their way into Tier 8, 9 & 10 matches and then they are pissed at the outcome. WG set up an environment that lets people do it, but they are not forced to throw away their tanks...as I see happen regularly.



dnaman #14 Posted May 31 2019 - 19:15

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I still wish MM would build randomly and then swap a few tanks side to side to balance the overall rankings of individuals rather than give all the high stat people to one side like Warchild showed.  Seems like it wouldn’t be that hard a script to write.  

RHeadshot #15 Posted May 31 2019 - 19:19

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View PostSgt_King_Gunner, on May 31 2019 - 18:24, said:

Just like everyone wants a 50% win rate.

 

Which is what a real skill based matchmaker would achieve.  Make every battle a 50% chance of win for everyone.  

I wonder how many people who call for skill based matchmaker want what it would actually achieve?  Or how many have actually thought it through to realize that it would achieve 50% WR.

How many people who are now winning 60% or more of their battles would pay to lose more often?

 

I'm not sure you're correct about that.  But if mm tried to even out the good players per team, rather than place good players with good players and bad players with bad, I really don't think that would be a problem.  I don't, however, believe that WG has the ability to write such a program.

__WarChild__ #16 Posted May 31 2019 - 19:21

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View Posthazmatman, on May 31 2019 - 12:02, said:

 

True. Even playing vanilla, as I do, many times you can just tell by how folks deploy out of the spawn the probability of win vs loss...and many people will adjust their play accordingly (or not), watching an entire team stop in open ground to all try to shoot a sui-scout (and die or lose half their HP in exchange) and then that influences the outcome...and that can happen with a team filled with greens and blues or one overflowing with tomatoes - I have seen plenty of good players come off a string of bad matches and decide "screw these clowns, they are on their own" (even say it in chat) and they go into 100% chai-snipe farm mode...and of course the team loses. Lots of ways to throw a match.

 

Sure there may be matches that might be considered "un-winnable" before the timer hits zero, but that doesn't mean that you can't take something away from them (BTW I am not implying Warchild is saying un-winnable means unplayable), but I have learned more about map use, spotting, concealment and tactics in some un-winnable matches than from any number of ruffle-stomps. In any case, SBMM is unlikely to occur nor is it likely to solve a problem without creating a new one. As of now, this is the game we have, and the player base that shows up every time you click the Random Battle button. You can learn a lot from using what you have, and you can't fully blame a sub-50% WR on "too many unicums" when I clearly see plenty of sub-2K match players free-XP'ing and Premium Tank buying their way into Tier 8, 9 & 10 matches and then they are pissed at the outcome. WG set up an environment that lets people do it, but they are not forced to throw away their tanks...as I see happen regularly.

 

I just like to point out that the single biggest factor in your winrate is the MM. Skill will allow you to increase your % by a certain limited amount, but without MM giving you the opportunity to win, you won't.  This is just a fact.  There's no reason to get all up in arms about it.  I'm sure you're a good tanker if you're reading this and your skill is superior.  But I watched an uber unicum with 3 marks on every Tier X the other night lose 3 games in a row.  He plays vanilla, so there was no way to see what the match ups were - but it made me smile seeing him get so angry at various things. Misery loves company I guess...

MacDaddyMatty #17 Posted May 31 2019 - 19:21

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What skill?

Overall? Folly!

I'm great at some tiers/tanks and crap in other tanks tiers.


 

No such thing.



cloudwalkr #18 Posted May 31 2019 - 19:22

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But, it's not long overdue.  It was never due.

 

im happy playing in the same sandbox as the rest of the kids.



Hellsfog #19 Posted May 31 2019 - 19:24

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View PostRHeadshot, on May 31 2019 - 13:19, said:

 

I'm not sure you're correct about that.  But if mm tried to even out the good players per team, rather than place good players with good players and bad players with bad, I really don't think that would be a problem.  I don't, however, believe that WG has the ability to write such a program.

 

There is a long thread about this and you can argue with the math if you want but it's still the math. Search for any post by NeatoMan, the resident stats guy. As for switching players between teams, it is only easy if all players on both teams are fungible except for skill and they aren't. 

 

P.S. There are certain number of games that you won't win regardless. Even exceptional players loss 35%-40&-ish of the time which is why overall win rates over 65% are exceptionally rare. Anecdotally, bots will win 40%-ish of the time, which is why those 38% wr guys are so cringe inducing. 

 


Edited by Hellsfog, May 31 2019 - 19:33.


_Tsavo_ #20 Posted May 31 2019 - 19:30

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Gonna go with a hard "No" on any SBMM idea.  Nope.  No bueno.




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