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Sniping Positions - Ep #24


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cheapbooks #1 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 10:14

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Sniping positions you can try in World of Tanks.

 



Scorpiany #2 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 15:03

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I should make a series called "Why cheapbooks doesn't have a clue". I've suffered through this trainwreck of a video, and I'm going to point out the numerous flaws with the "advice" in it, so that hopefully players can actually learn and not be confused by his misinformation or just generally poor gameplay.

 

This is the format I'll follow here: Timestamps - Map - What's wrong - What to do better


 

Timestamp / Map: 01:25 - Lakeville

What's wrong: That position is generally very poor because of a multitude of reasons. Primarily, you're locking yourself in with little-to-no possibility of relocation. If the enemy sends any forces into the central road, especially if they also have scouts in the E7 rock / bushes, you'll very easily get shot in the rear if you back out even slightly too far. That means your only possibility of escape would be to drive through the city, except you'd first have to cross the opening near the church, where in the vast majority of battles there will be multiple enemies staring you down.

 

Furthermore, when you poke for shots, you'll usually be poking against vehicles which are side-scraping against you, making them tricky targets to pen. While you could potentially create a crossfire, the chances of you being able to do damage, not get shot from the rear and be able to progress through the battle as necessary from that position is very very tricky for the vast majority of tanks. If you're in an Obj. 268 v4 with the armor, mobility and gun to make that position work? Sure. If you're in an AMX 50 120? It's practically suicide, and as his own video showed, he couldn't even do his HP in damage from there.

 

Plus it's technically not a sniping position, the distance is less than 100m, but details.

 

What should have been done: If we're focusing on the AMX 50 120 in particular, your deployment will depend on whether or not your team has an aggressive scout in the middle. If so, get some early shots across. If not, or once the middle is no longer useful, move into the city. Don't go in front of your allies however. Either stay on the outskirts of the city unspotted and look for shots into the middle if it's contested, or alternatively support your allies from a bit further back. Find an angle on the 0 line, around the church building. Don't go to the building itself, stay near the F0/G0 border.

 

If we're discussing sniping as a whole, middle is generally the only realistic option for actual "sniping" opportunities. Either you're sniping into the middle from the outskirts of the city, or vise versa; shooting into city from the middle. A mid-city brawl as cheapbooks showed, is not sniping. It's brawling.

 


 

Timestamp / Map: 3:40 - Glacier

What's Wrong: DO NOT STOP THERE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T STOP THERE. When you stop your tank there, any enemy medium tanks with a keyboard will spot you and farm you to all hell. While yes, you may be tempted to look for shots at tanks crossing, don't stop in the middle of the open to do so. I've seen so many heavy tanks die within the first minute because they stop there and then get double-tracked by mediums from the middle, or by arty.

 

What should have been done: If you're going to stop for shots, only do so at one of the rocks from further back, or alternatively, cut straight towards the middle and only catch glancing shots. If you're a slower heavy, best to stay as far back as you can and just take the safest route to your flank. If you're in a faster heavy, such as the Chinese ones, you could make a play for the middle and catch shots. An IS as shown in the video is a really awkward middle ground, it's not particularly quick nor particularly slow. Given the matchup however, stopping there could have been very very poor. Cheapbooks is simply lucky that the enemy abandoned control of the middle, otherwise he could have lost a lot of HP very quickly.


 

Timestamp / Map: 4:10 - Glacier

I'll admit, I laughed here a bit. Don't be that Lynx. As fun as it may be to jump over a ravine, it is in fact bad for your tank's HP. Your crew's probably going to be disoriented after doing so as well. Just... Don't be that Lynx.


 

Timestamp / Map: 5:15 - Glacier

What's Wrong: Because the enemy abandoned the middle, climbing up for shots was not a terrible idea. However, the way cheapbooks used the position was atrocious. He constantly poked against targets that were going to shoot him before he could shoot back, he lost in HP trades to lower alpha guns and in the end just got himself completely isolated from any allied support.

 

It was also a poor choice to do the climb in an IS. You're trying to shoot down at targets with a tank with little armor and very poor gun depression, and while you may have some good shots, an IS is going to struggle significantly to use the position safely or effectively.

 

What should have been done: He could have kept fighting in the middle and prevented the SU-130PM from climbing up the middle in the end, or alternatively played the traditional heavy locations. Even a push down south wouldn't have been a terrible idea because the enemy had no crossfire from the middle, but in most matchups a south push wouldn't work either.


 

Timestamp / Map: 7:00 - Redshire

What's Wrong: Going to that position will usually get you spotted and killed early on in the battle. It also isolates you from most of the actual fighting going on in the map.

 

What should have been done: If you want to snipe into the middle, or at tanks crossing, you can do so from the F9 ridge. There's a little rock with a bush next to it up there that you can climb into and use it to shoot at anything your team spots. The biggest difference is that from the F9 area, you can pull back into safety if you get spotted, and you can support the heavy brawl going on right next to you as necessary.


 

Timestamp / Map: 10:10 - Mines

For the most part no complaints about recommending this position. Mines doesn't have all that many opportunities for sniping, but if you can get up into that bush, you can have some great results. Just be warned that tanks can spot you from the hill and get shots into you if you're not careful. Also, it's a fairly obvious bush to blind fire into, and skilled players will often wait for you to return into the bush when unspotted and take blind shots at you. Also it's a high arty risk, but then again, what isn't a high arty risk on Mines?


 

Timestamp / Map: 15:10 - Siegefried Line

What's Wrong: That position may work for an initial ambush, but it runs out of usefulness pretty quickly. Most enemies are smart enough not to poke there after they get spotted, and it can become a frustrating and campy position. Also, enemy arty can shoot you if they position near the ridge in the center of the field, which in Assault mode is a very real possibility.

 

I'd say this position is fine for some tanks, but I'd recommend it moreso for heavies and mediums.

 

What should have been done: For the WT auf Pz. IV, sniping from C9 is probably the most obvious sniping position to use. I usually play my WT fairly aggressively, so sometimes I'll move up to the A6 ridgeline. It's dangerous with arty though. In general, I'd say get early shots from C9, then relocate based on how the battle develops.

 

This is probably one of the least offensive positions he's shown though, outside of the fact that it's really not suited for a WT, but rather moreso suited for a medium / heavy.


 

18:05 - No. This is not why you use HE rounds. You could have actually bothered to aim your shot. You're in a WT auf Pz. IV, one of the most reliable and high-pen guns in the game. The fact that you can't penetrate a KV-4 who is hardly angling is purely down to your complete lack of aiming ability.


 

18:32 - Yes, he should have learned his lesson. The main reason why that position is usually not super useful, especially as a "sniping" position, is because as I mentioned earlier most enemy tanks will be smart enough to not poke after they get spotted. That KV-4 was... Well, he was special. That's about the nicest way I can put his gameplay. The vast majority of cases, that position will be used moreso for shooting into the southern field, rather than covering the city, in the earlier stages of the game. Later game once the enemy is pushing more into the city, it's possible you'll have players making aggressive plays like that KV-4, but smart players won't take more than one shot of damage from you before they get to their destination.


 

Timestamp / Map: 20:20 - Westfield

What's Wrong: That position is not to be used for shooting tanks like the Tortoise. It's great for shooting across down south into enemy medium tanks that push the southern flank. However, focusing on the camping TD's up north is a huge mistake and will usually just get you killed.

 

Also, it's really not a position for the WZ-111-14. You can get some crossfires from there, but the WZ-111-14 is a tank more influential elsewhere unless you really know what you're doing and the enemy is pressuring the village as well.

 

What should have been done: I'd much more recommend either fighting up north with the heavies, or perhaps joining the mediums down south with their push. Going there is actually a good sniping position, but playing with the mindset to snipe in a heavy tank is what's going to lose battles. For a WZ-111-14, that area is going to become much more oriented towards brawling in the village, which as you can see in cheapbook's video, is exactly what the battle progressed into. Not really a "sniping position" if you're brawling, is it?




 

Finishing remarks:

1) Editing software, for the love of god, make use of it. You could have easily cut that down into a 3-5 minute video. Nobody wants to sit through 25 minutes of completely dull gameplay, even though I just did that to be able to make this post.

2) Some of these positions aren't even sniping positions, and most of them leave much to be desired. A good sniping position creates a crossfire onto enemy tanks from a relatively safe location. If you're either going to get caught out from there, or you're simply devolving into a brawl, then it's not a sniping position anymore.

3) You're not nearly as good of a player as you think you are, cheapbooks. You struggle to do even 2/3rds of your HP in damage. That means you're a liability to your teams more often than not. While there are some tanks you do decently in, you struggle in the vast majority.

4) While I do think it's a good thing to try to offer advice to players, if that advice contains vast misinformation, or you're just figuring things out as you go along, then you're not really helping anyone. I don't think anyone who watches your videos actually learns anything useful from them. Most likely, it just confuses players.

5) I'm not going to do this for all your videos. I don't have the patience nor the sanity to do so.



SwollenOstrich #3 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 15:23

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I have thought about it, and I really don't think "sniping" means what you think it means. 
 
In position #1, (after brawling with an AMX at 5 meters), you "snipe" at exactly 125 meters, do 413 damage to a 705 and you die. 
 
Position #2. The ship on Artic is a well-known spot used for sniping ... but you didn't snipe. You brawled badly with tanks 125 meters away again and you lose 1230 HP while doing about 700. You claim to do 1300 damage up there, completely forgetting you had done over 600 before you ever got to the ship.
 
#3, Redshire you go shoot an E-50M in the side from exactly 25 meters away. You actually play a medium tank correctly, taking side shots from 25 meters (helpful reminder: shooting tanks at 25 meters is NOT sniping). Then you stick around until they are focused on you and pull in front of a T30 who is obviously creeping up because he is re-loaded ... had he nails you and you blow up a few seconds later. You started well, but then decided to brawl with 3-4 heavy tanks. Again. Brawling. No sniping here.
 
#4. Funny. You claimed it took you 38,000 games to find this same position previously. Linked your quote below.

View Postcheapbooks, on May 30 2019 - 00:33, said:

so you are  telling me YOU KNEW before watching this video that you could climb up on that rock and snipe between that tiny gap between those buildings? you already knew that was possible? I played 38,000 games and just found this gap recently but you knew all along and kept it a secret from the rest of us?

Yet when you went here, there were two of your own teammates already using it. I had mentioned in that thread this position is used ALL the time. Clearly here is proof. Your position is commonly known and used and you accuse me of keeping it a secret. LOL. You did ok this time. But you should. This is a nice position that everyone knows about and uses.
 
#5 Position is ok, it is actually a sniping position (congrats!). But you insist on firing HE from a Waffen, doing 400 damage after multiple shots. Then you finally switch to AP, get 1 additional shot of damage and the game is over because your teammates carried you. 830 damage with a Waffen IV. Sigh.
 
#6. I loved how you compared your Tier 9 WZ to all the Tier 8 heavies and say that it is better. Laughed so hard. You brawled with a T95 and I roared when you circled around a bit, pulled in front of him with your turret facing the wrong way and he nailed you again. 
 
Edit: ninja'd by Scorp.
 
 


SwollenOstrich #4 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 15:32

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View PostScorpiany, on Jun 13 2019 - 08:03, said:

Finishing remarks:

1) Editing software, for the love of god, make use of it. You could have easily cut that down into a 3-5 minute video. Nobody wants to sit through 25 minutes of completely dull gameplay, even though I just did that to be able to make this post.

^^ But don't expect him to change, Scorp. Using the Youtube option of viewing them at 2x speed makes them a lot more bearable.

 

Edit: what is UP with the forum? It keeps posting screwed up versions of my posts?


Edited by SwollenOstrich, Jun 13 2019 - 15:35.


3BAC #5 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 15:39

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View PostScorpiany, on Jun 13 2019 - 14:03, said:

I should make a series called "Why cheapbooks doesn't have a clue". I've suffered through this trainwreck of a video, and I'm going to point out the numerous flaws with the "advice" in it, so that hopefully players can actually learn and not be confused by his misinformation or just generally poor gameplay.

 

I was scratching my head when, talking about sniper positions, I see an E-100 pictured. I've actually never seen one of this tanker's vids, so out of curiosity, I watched the whole thing. Again, scratched my head every time he started with a heavy tank to show sniper positions. I don't think he knows the role of heavy tanks, especially the ones he used here.

 

It takes some effort to create these, so  I am glad to see folks sharing their views on how best to play. However, I have to wonder if these were the best game play examples he has to show.  Anyone who thinks doing less damage than your own HP is playing well should fix his own game before giving advice to others.



cheapbooks #6 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 15:39

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Thankyou! I look forward to the release of the next video.

3BAC #7 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 15:41

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View PostSwollenOstrich, on Jun 13 2019 - 14:32, said:

Edit: what is UP with the forum? It keeps posting screwed up versions of my posts?

Not having this problem, but I've seen it before.

The system autosaves the post before publishing it. However, sometimes it fails to save it, and posts whatever you had when the last autosave was done.



moogleslam #8 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 16:05

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That was admirable, Scorpiany.  I've tried, SwollenOstritch has tried.  Many have tried.  He won't listen.

SwollenOstrich #9 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 16:17

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View Post3BAC, on Jun 13 2019 - 08:41, said:

Not having this problem, but I've seen it before.

The system autosaves the post before publishing it. However, sometimes it fails to save it, and posts whatever you had when the last autosave was done.

Yeah, that is exactly what is happening. Thanks. Will watch out for it.



cloudwalkr #10 Posted Jun 13 2019 - 16:42

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OP, please take my criticism with the utmost respect.  I can respect someone who is actively trying to help others improve, but you aren't giving good advice or map positioning.  If I'm being completely upfront with you, I made it as far as you dumping your first clip in lakeville and stopped watching.  The path you drove to city was bad, the instant aggression to clip that one tank will usually cost you major hp if not kill you outright.  When you missed your second shot due to rushing it and then blamed the guy that came to help you for 'making your shot hard'...I stopped watching. 

 

Please, focus more on improvement and less on trying to coach others.

 

Scorp was a bit abrupt with his response, but I do agree with him and his assessment.

 

Edit:  I tried watching again and couldn't make it.  Cheapbooks, man...look...in the lakeville battle you're talking about ammo and this and that and then you start talking about how you're this good player and you don't need special ammo...all the while a t10 is CLEARLY peeking you and about to shoot you.  Any half way decent player, barely avg, would have realized they were in a bad spot and that the t10 was peeking them.

 

I'm not saying this to belittle you or be mean to you....but you are not a good player.  The sooner you admit this and look for help, the sooner you will actually become a better player.  Going on the belief that you are a good player already is honestly holding you back from actually learning.  Your awareness is bad, your pathing you take is bad, your shot selection is bad...stop trying to give advice to others until you can at least admit that you are, in fact, below what I would consider an avg player.  It's ok, it's really not a big deal to be below avg at a game...but that changes when you are trying to influence and 'teach' others.  


Edited by cloudwalkr, Jun 13 2019 - 17:01.


cloudwalkr #11 Posted Jun 14 2019 - 18:04

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Op replied to me in a different way and tried telling me he single handily won the lakeville battle...there is no help for OP.

SwollenOstrich #12 Posted Jun 14 2019 - 18:57

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View Postcloudwalkr, on Jun 14 2019 - 11:04, said:

Op replied to me in a different way and tried telling me he single handily won the lakeville battle...there is no help for OP.

Well, I believe him. Lol. Isn't doing 1500 damage in a Tier X battle with 0 kills more than enough to carry any team?

 

 






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