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Frontline "Balancing"

Frontline Episode 6 Why? Sentient Buildings

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LpBronco #21 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 11:51

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I'm not very enthusiastic about changing horses midstream but I'm not running this rodeo.

 

Changing the game midway through the event smacks of amateurism. Feedback for the next event I understand but we've already invested a lot of time in the mode with the idea that we will continue and so what if light tanks rule the field. They certainly won't on the postage size corridor maps we generally see. Just give every class two perks and be done with it.



164thLeichteAfrikaDiv #22 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 12:14

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View PostLpBronco, on Jun 17 2019 - 11:51, said:

I'm not very enthusiastic about changing horses midstream but I'm not running this rodeo.

 

Changing the game midway through the event smacks of amateurism. Feedback for the next event I understand but we've already invested a lot of time in the mode with the idea that we will continue and so what if light tanks rule the field. They certainly won't on the postage size corridor maps we generally see. Just give every class two perks and be done with it.

 

I agree. Make changes at the end of the season if you see fit. I don't think nerfing slots mid season was a good idea. If anything give all classes three reserves and play it out. Taking slots away from certain classes is well...not classy.



RacWisco #23 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 13:05

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View PostBeefy_Tanks, on Jun 17 2019 - 00:13, said:

Hey-o,

Just wondering why anything in Frontline was changed at all. The balance changes seem incredibly unnecessary and funny to be honest.

When it comes to reserve slots, it sort of makes sense what they did to lights, considering they should be more busy spotting targets than using recon or dropping artillery. Mediums needed 2 reserves, so that's okay as well, but Heavies getting 3 reserves purely because they don't move as fast is stupid. TD's could use 1 to be honest and the only class to EVER use recon, artillery, will no longer be able to due to their use of Engineering, which is far superior to anything else for the class.

Also, give pillboxes the ability to see because we all know that inanimate objects are capable of sight and reconnaissance pre-1960. Dumbest bit of these changes.

Also, I'm not sure if this has been considered, but for people who don't stick around very long per life on Frontline mode, they would really prefer a spawn credit duration REDUCTION, not an increase. The spawn timer is fine, it's the spawn credits that people don't like waiting for.

Just my humble opinion, but this is my favorite thing to come out of WG since 1.0, so Id like to see it not be destroyed by unnecessary balancing. Thanks.

Are these pre 1960s giant robot turrets that don't require men to see?



RacWisco #24 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 13:07

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Jun 17 2019 - 00:22, said:

They have lost that loving feelin and are trying to get it back but it's gone, gone, gone.  Fewer and fewer people are playing this silly mode anymore and that is due to all the problems that keep being pointed out.  I don't play enough of the mode to really even worry about it.  I might get to play an hour every day two and have not even prestiged once yet.  Personally, I don't even care either.  If I play it, I will be there only for the credit earning potential(s) and nothing else.  I already have the first 2 tanks so there is no way I will be getting any of the other 2.

What are you talking about? Never a wait in que except for arty. Pull some more facts out of there.



RacWisco #25 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 13:09

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These changes were implemented to get the heavy drivers to play since not enough fake castles to peek a boom and side scrape on.

Hellsfog #26 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 13:46

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A change to reserves was needed but WG, once again, over did it. Arty/lights should have had one less while heavies/meds have one more. 

Beefy_Tanks #27 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 15:01

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View Postcommander42, on Jun 16 2019 - 23:35, said:

armor as a concept doesn't work as well in frontline, plus not all heavies have that great of armor compared to mediums.  My tiger2 for example in frontlines the only asset it really has is the gun.  In frontlines armor and hp is devalued.  Mobility, view range, and camo are more valued. 

Arty is not OP but the reason it could definitely use less reserves than it previously had, is when it could 3 combination of recon or engineering, or arty strike or air strike.  Toning it down to two of those four would be fair.



Agreed, I would like to still have my Engineering, but also Recon, so that when my team is too chicken-crap to spot, or if all of them die because they are bad, I can still save the day by seeing the base and hitting that cheeky light with all the points.



Beefy_Tanks #28 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 15:02

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View PostRacWisco, on Jun 17 2019 - 07:05, said:

Are these pre 1960s giant robot turrets that don't require men to see?



Well sure, it's supposed to be early to late WW2, right? Until the invention of digital cameras, it was pretty hard to maintain surveillance on something, or even around something.



Beefy_Tanks #29 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 15:04

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View PostLpBronco, on Jun 17 2019 - 05:51, said:

I'm not very enthusiastic about changing horses midstream but I'm not running this rodeo.

 

Changing the game midway through the event smacks of amateurism. Feedback for the next event I understand but we've already invested a lot of time in the mode with the idea that we will continue and so what if light tanks rule the field. They certainly won't on the postage size corridor maps we generally see. Just give every class two perks and be done with it.



I'm actually damn okay with this.

And you know arty players "can't be reasoned with" so I'm making strides lol



SteelRonin #30 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 15:27

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Object 252Us with Arty Strike, Air Strike and Engineering...........there will be tons of them...

spud_tuber #31 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 15:50

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View PostSteelRonin, on Jun 17 2019 - 08:27, said:

Object 252Us with Arty Strike, Air Strike and Engineering...........there will be tons of them...

Typical WG overcorrecting.  They should have tried 2 each before dropping LTs to 1 and bumping HTs to 3.  

 

Edit:  this is also an indirect nerf to assault TDs, as before the only real advantage they had over HTs was the ability to take 2 reserves. 



Mojo_Riesing #32 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 16:23

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I think the problem, after playing a few rounds of FL, are much what i thought they might be.

 

1) They have Reserve changes wrong.  Yes, there was too much artillery and heavies took a beating while Lights were OP.  The re-adjustment of how many reserves each class "gets" wasn't the fix that was needed.  FIrst, i think EVERY class should have 2 reserves as a baseline BUT only one is "offense". You could have one each offense with a defensive reserve, or two defensive, but never 2 offense.  I could MAKE A CASE to give a selected class or two a third reserve but only defensive.  ANother solution to this would be to lengthen the recharge time for offensive (artillery/airstrike) by some amount up to double which would maybe force players to wait to use this ONLY wnen you really need it.  Leave recharge on defensive as they are, maybe shorten.

2)  Cross fire from between regions.  Definitely still a problem. SPG's and "reserve" offensive options should be confined to the linear field of battle.  Direct fire from tanks might be ok, they are still "line of sight".

3)  Respawn of a tank...not a  problem yet but i think will drive sales of Premium tanks...we'll see with this.

4)  Repair areas should not be strikable with arty at all...direct fire maybe.

 

Another problem not addressed that i know of is..the cumulative effect of all the various "perks" you can use including from bond sales etc. Granted exceptional players should be rewarded for meeting competion goals, but what's happening is that really talented players are getting perks that...well, verge on unfair advantages to players ALREADY possessing skills beyond average players.  I've got a 4+ perk crew with exceptional view range, but i'm getting whacked by tanks I SHOULD be able to see, but cannot. If SPG's are an issue because the can "snipe" without ability to defend against, then so should other tanks using perks that basically can only come from  rewards gained elsewhere in the game.

 



Beefy_Tanks #33 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 16:42

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1. Agreed on all points except that there is too much artillery. Given that it is one-tenth of the team, there's not much less you can go other than removal, and that won't happen, as you are aware.
2. They can't block that, and plus, I just go to another region then fire. I'd rather reduce my flight time by 50% than to be able to hit targets in other zones. SPG's are only great when defending, and preferably Base C. (on current summer FL map)
3. I already have 20+ Tier 8 premiums but other players don't. I consider the respawn timer increase as an agressive move to sell more tanks, yes.
4.They can't do that. I don't mean they won't want to, I mean they just can't. Plus, arty timing their shot and leading it perfectly and making sure to at least splash a player on repair circle considering the god-awful accuracy and reduced splash effect arty now has is WAY LESS CHEAP than a light or wheelie from rushing the lines and poking you with HE from their toothpick launcher.

owlgator #34 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 16:48

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Heavies were slow moving targets before the changes.  Rarely did I see a group of heavies roll the cap as they'd then sit out in the open for everyone to farm damage off of.  In fact, I welcome this change for just that reason.  Well, that and hopefully this will decrease the number of lights being played from 99% to 95%.

Mojo_Riesing #35 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 17:55

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View PostBeefy_Tanks, on Jun 17 2019 - 07:42, said:

1. Agreed on all points except that there is too much artillery. Given that it is one-tenth of the team, there's not much less you can go other than removal, and that won't happen, as you are aware.
2. They can't block that, and plus, I just go to another region then fire. I'd rather reduce my flight time by 50% than to be able to hit targets in other zones. SPG's are only great when defending, and preferably Base C. (on current summer FL map)
3. I already have 20+ Tier 8 premiums but other players don't. I consider the respawn timer increase as an agressive move to sell more tanks, yes.
4.They can't do that. I don't mean they won't want to, I mean they just can't. Plus, arty timing their shot and leading it perfectly and making sure to at least splash a player on repair circle considering the god-awful accuracy and reduced splash effect arty now has is WAY LESS CHEAP than a light or wheelie from rushing the lines and poking you with HE from their toothpick launcher.

 

I get your points really, but i think if you lengthened the "recharge" time of the artillery/airstrike reserve it could put restraints on when it's used.  I'd have no issue with giving Lights and SPG ONLY defensive reserves. Agreed removal of SPG won't happen and i don't support that anyway.  Then again, i'd be ALL in favor of a NEW reserve for SPG's.  Mount twin .50cals on them, and offer that as an offensive perk.  LOL!

 

Numbers 2 & 4, yah, just wishful thinking here.  Personally i don't care if they sell more TierVIII's but i know some have issues with that here.

 



Beefy_Tanks #36 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 18:06

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View Postowlgator, on Jun 17 2019 - 10:48, said:

Heavies were slow moving targets before the changes.  Rarely did I see a group of heavies roll the cap as they'd then sit out in the open for everyone to farm damage off of.  In fact, I welcome this change for just that reason.  Well, that and hopefully this will decrease the number of lights being played from 99% to 95%.


Giving heavies more reserves wont change how they play lol.

Just more braindead hunks of experience. I wish them luck.
 

View PostMojo_Riesing, on Jun 17 2019 - 11:55, said:

 

I get your points really, but i think if you lengthened the "recharge" time of the artillery/airstrike reserve it could put restraints on when it's used.  I'd have no issue with giving Lights and SPG ONLY defensive reserves. Agreed removal of SPG won't happen and i don't support that anyway.  Then again, i'd be ALL in favor of a NEW reserve for SPG's.  Mount twin .50cals on them, and offer that as an offensive perk.  LOL!

 

Numbers 2 & 4, yah, just wishful thinking here.  Personally i don't care if they sell more TierVIII's but i know some have issues with that here.

 


I like the nerf on the offensive reserves timer. Good point. I thought you meant actual artillery pieces, not the arty reserve. Also, although my incredible one-shot General (video here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/440143517) was aided by an artillery reserve, I would be okay with having only defensive perks. Not sure how it would work when attacking, however. Unless of course, you mean that any perk that deals damage is offensive, and any perk that doesn't is defensive. Then sure, I would just be Recon and Engineering tbh. (You will also notice that I spam for Recon at F and it never comes, so I had to do it myself, but I opted for the artillery strike instead of Recon because I had a solid feeling as to where they were hiding.)

Also, for everyone else, if you stopped by to talk about what needs to be done to Frontline in either direction and you have less than 50 FL games played, keep it to yourself. Thanks!



SuckerPuncher #37 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 18:29

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View PostBeefy_Tanks, on Jun 16 2019 - 22:28, said:


I'm not sure why heavies would need the most help having the most armor, almost the best guns and the most health, but sure, I'm looking forward to having more targets on base. Being slow is not an excuse to be buffed.

I also appreciate your understanding that Lights need to just stick to their incredibly profitable spotting capabilities.

I would accept 2 reserves, sure, but "arty is OP" so they won't be doing that. The stupid masses have spoken out of their asses once again, and arty has received another downgrade. Not surprised, so I can go with it.

 

First, gamers are quick to figure out systems and their quirks (Hands up if you remember what T6 scrims looked like pre hellcat nerf).  If something is beneficial or OP they will figure it out and you will see more of it.  In my totally subjective observations lights and wheelies were becoming much more numerous as they had the advantage of mobility and three reserves allowing them an advantage.  My guess is the population data that WG had, showed that pre wheelie the number of lights was much lower than it is now and that the number of heavies had declined.  So... they put their thumbs on the scale of the heavies and I can almost guarantee that there will be more of them and less wheelies and lights.  Adjusting the number of reserves has zero influence on the game as a whole and was easy to code.

 

 

View PostLpBronco, on Jun 17 2019 - 04:51, said:

I'm not very enthusiastic about changing horses midstream but I'm not running this rodeo.

 

Changing the game midway through the event smacks of amateurism. Feedback for the next event I understand but we've already invested a lot of time in the mode with the idea that we will continue and so what if light tanks rule the field. They certainly won't on the postage size corridor maps we generally see. Just give every class two perks and be done with it.

 

With a year long season, you need to be a little flexible to changes.  A year is a LONG time to leave something messed up in a game that is already hemorrhaging players.  Expecting that they leave things that they recognize are problems for that long smacks of ignorance. 


Edited by SuckerPuncher, Jun 18 2019 - 00:35.


Beefy_Tanks #38 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 20:09

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View PostSuckerPuncher, on Jun 17 2019 - 12:29, said:

 

First, are quick to figure out systems and their quirks (Hands up if you remember what T6 scrims looked like pre hellcat nerf).  If something is beneficial or OP they will figure it out and you will see more of it.  In my totally subjective observations lights and wheelies were becoming much more numerous as they had the advantage of mobility and three reserves allowing them an advantage.  My guess is the population data that WG had, showed that pre wheelie the number of lights was much lower than it is now and that the number of heavies had declined.  So... they put their thumbs on the scale of the heavies and I can almost guarantee that there will be more of them and less wheelies and lights.  Adjusting the number of reserves has zero influence on the game as a whole and was easy to code.

 

 

 

With a year long season, you need to be a little flexible to changes.  A year is a LONG time to leave something messed up in a game that is already hemorrhaging players.  Expecting that they leave things that they recognize are problems for that long smacks of ignorance. 



Solid science on the light tank/wheelie logic, but for it to be easy to screw with reserves being the reason to do it, it doesn't really hold water. 2 across the board (as I have been convinced by the players in this thread) seems reasonable, and should have been the policy all along.

Also, in regards to the flexibility considering it's a year-long event, sure, I can see that. But with the trial month that was made last year and another month of playtime so far this year, you'd think they'd come to the final product, as I thought they had. I get the spawn point stuff that they did earlier, but changing the fundamentals is weird. That's why people are complaining. If you're going to change fundamentals, you gotta do it WAY slower. This company is the expert at slow and painful nerfs or long winded buffs, so why did they make such an extreme change for this one? The traffic IS Frontline right now.



owlgator #39 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 21:28

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View PostBeefy_Tanks, on Jun 17 2019 - 11:06, said:


Giving heavies more reserves wont change how they play lol.

 

That's what the other guy said.  My comment was on the number of heavies.  If you don't think these changes will increase heavies in FL you're nuts - especially those that have decent mobility.

 

 



Waylandie #40 Posted Jun 17 2019 - 21:40

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They need to rework the respawn mechanics all together.  Currently if you push towards the cap points, you're punished if you fail.  Two attempts in the first few minutes and you're looking at a wait timer before you can spawn.  After that you can't push, or doing anything to risky because you will still have a long wait before respawn.  It would go a long way towards making the game more enjoyable if there wasn't a 3 minute punishment for pushing objectives.




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