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⭐ The Problem of Special Ammunition, Why Proposed Solutions Don't Work, ​and How I Would Solve I...

gold premium ammo rounds shells problem fix solution 13disciple

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HeraldricKnight #81 Posted Jun 21 2019 - 16:39

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View PostBlackstone, on Jun 21 2019 - 11:42, said:

 

If the passion some people have for this game was redirected it into things that really matter in life, then that would be something.

 

And you know what these people's lives are like, O'er Paragon of What Is and Is Not Life. 



taugrim #82 Posted Jul 01 2019 - 17:15

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I have yet to see a more thoughtful solution that what 13Disciple posted.

 

If anyone has good/better ideas, please share them.



Mercury00003 #83 Posted Jul 01 2019 - 17:35

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The solution to gold ammo is simple.  I had this epiphany the other day about it.  Just make gold rounds (I refuse to call it special ammo) ineffective against same tier or lower vehicles.  This would have the added benefit of making tanks easier to balance as armor would not have to be balanced around two ammo types.  Remove all premium rounds from tier 10 tanks and give them something to compensate, like slightly more armor or a slightly higher pen on HE.

 

This will never happen ofc because gold ammo is the foundation for this P2W game.  (Keep in mind P2W has always been a simplified way of describing a mechanic in a game that gives players an advantage over non-plaging players, in this case the ability to spam more gold rounds than a F2P player.  Few games give a distinctive pay to win advantage).  However, WG will NEVER shoot it's golden goose.

 

Edit - clarification:

 

Using premium rounds on same tier or lower tier would still do the same damage but the pen would be the same as a standard round.

 

WoT is an arcade game ..many of the tanks never existed.  Many of the mechanics, while logical within the confines of the game, do not reflect the real world and real conditions.  All tanks in a certain tier should be balanced against each other.  Yes some tanks may not have historical stats but the differences should be for balance as an arcade game.  I believe a good example of balancing problem gold rounds introduce is the tier 10 medium meta.  It is more a multi-faceted issue than that of course  (as some mediums are far superior to others at that tier) but highlights one of the issues with gold rounds.


Edited by Mercury00003, Jul 01 2019 - 21:13.


Jryder #84 Posted Jul 01 2019 - 18:37

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From the written article:

"Limiting the total number of premium shells will be extremely difficult, or impossible to balance across every tank in the game. The ramification being that you’ll have to be selective on when you can fire premium ammo,..."

 

Note the underlined part of the passage. That is EXACTLY what WG claims that they want to achieve, and limiting SPammo loadout perfectly and directly addresses that point. I disagree with the OP's implication that forcing players to be selective is a negative. Unlimited player 'choice' in every aspect of the game is, as it is in RL, unworkable and undesirable. Player choice is why we are here-they choose to shoot pure SPammo.

 

If a blanket 20% SPammo limit for all tanks negatively impacts certain tanks based on their fundamental design (ie., T-54...), then those tanks can be jiggered individually for a larger/smaller loadout, whichever is necessary. As the OP notes, WG is already altering HP pools and other aspects of ALL tanks in the game. Any claim about this being too large a project or 'impossible' is simply wrong, and it would be far less troublesome than altering the entire economic structure of the game nor any harder than any of the game wide tank rebalancings that they are currently undergoing.

 

THE problem is SPammo availability. In the early days, only the rich had it because it cost real money to acquire via Gold. WG changed that so that SPammo was available to all via credits. Now, credits are in abundance and the obvious and natural result is that people use more SPammo. Setting aside the Uber armor aspects, given the choice between 50% pen possibility and an 80% penetration possibility, every player will take the 80% possibility unless that choice is minimized or eliminated. In the same vein, given a choice between using SPammo on Arty rather than normal ammo or using normal ammo and then having SPammo to use on a Defender later on, I am confident that most players will make the obvious choice to be selective and use SPammo when appropriate. This only happens when players are given a limited supply with which to make that choice.

 

Tinkering with the economy, RNG, MM, etc., are all possibilities and certainly worth investigating but I don't think they are necessary to solve this issue.

 

 

 

 



SkunkButt #85 Posted Jul 01 2019 - 19:41

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The problem will never be solved, no matter what juggling is done with the stuff so long as a vehicle two tiers above its target can effectively ignore any sort of armor or positioning it does and blast it in the face with gold ammo.

A complex, though elegant, solution would be pretty simple... when the target is two tiers down 'gold' ammo is treated as normal.  If the target is one tier down its bonus is halved.
Introduce over penetration mechanics (the less armor something has the more likely the round - AP/APCR mostly - will simply punch right through the target and do little overall damage, though increase crew and internal module crit chance) on premium high velocity shells.  So shooting at an arty or wheelie with APCR or HEAT would stand a very, very high chance of doing little to nothing to it... whereas thinking ahead to load that HE would be more productive.

"But, but... I loaded for the maus and the Grille15 just popped up...!"  Common argument.  Answer:  Fall back and reload for the Grille15, or wait for the Maus to poke again.  It's called tactics - something many, many folks utterly lack in WoT.  They'd just rather load the gold and burn through whatever is there... Type5 and 183 users are the pinnacle of this behavior.

Edited by SkunkButt, Jul 01 2019 - 19:55.


LpBronco #86 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 00:49

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It's even easier than that - no credits or experience for using premium on a tank two tiers down and 1/2 credits and experience for anything one tier down. No penalties for on tier and above tier. It wouldn't take long even for guys like me to modify their gold use although the new MM is costing me less to play and I need gold rounds less often.

Flarvin #87 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 01:22

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View PostLpBronco, on Jul 01 2019 - 18:49, said:

It's even easier than that - no credits or experience for using premium on a tank two tiers down and 1/2 credits and experience for anything one tier down. No penalties for on tier and above tier. It wouldn't take long even for guys like me to modify their gold use although the new MM is costing me less to play and I need gold rounds less often.

 

I do not see an issue with prem ammo used against tanks, which standard would have penned anyways. It’s nothing but a waste of credits. 

 

I love it when someone wastes credits firing prem ammo at me. 



Mercury00003 #88 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 01:29

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View PostFlarvin, on Jul 02 2019 - 01:22, said:

 

I do not see an issue with prem ammo used against tanks, which standard would have penned anyways. It’s nothing but a waste of credits. 

 

I love it when someone wastes credits firing prem ammo at me. 

That's why gold ammo should be no more effective than standard ammo at the same tier or lower. These hover tanks with good gun handling negating the armor of heavy tanks by pressing two is a problem as I see it.  If you do not see a problem with it what would be wrong with removing it?


Edited by Mercury00003, Jul 02 2019 - 01:30.


Flarvin #89 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 01:37

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View PostMercury00003, on Jul 01 2019 - 19:29, said:

That's why gold ammo should be no more effective than standard ammo at the same tier or lower. These hover tanks with good gun handling negating the armor of heavy tanks by pressing two is a problem as I see it.  If you do not see a problem with it what would be wrong with removing it?

 

I do not feel that prem ammo is a problem. 

 

I rarely use it, because I rarely find a need for it. Plus I care more about making credits. 

 

And I do not have a problem blocking shots in heavies, or any other well armored tank. 



Kutejikashi #90 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 06:22

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I would rather prefer the method WoT Blitz do it.

Having the Alpha damage of the special ammo downgraded to encourage more normal ammo ussage on general.

I mean, it works on Blitz, so maybe it works on the PC version too.





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