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Wheeled vehicles are way OP, Esp. EBR

wheeled vehicles Game Balancing Matchmaker

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QuicksilverJPR #41 Posted Jun 21 2019 - 17:28

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View Postgwkucera, on Jun 20 2019 - 23:18, said:

I think you need to understand confirmation bias means before you use it in a sentence, but let's not digress.
I am well aware of the fact their insane OPness is rarely exploited effectively.  That is not my point.  My point is that when it is exploited, i.e, a good player is driving it, that good player is way better than he would be in any other tank of the same tier.  In other words, the tank is about 3/4 of a tier OP.   Furthermore, as others have pointed out, these things totally change the game balancing so that slower tanks (slow traverse, turrret traverse and movement, are all relatively worse than they were before these things appeared.  

 

Confirmation bias = Confirmation bias occurs from the direct influence of desire on beliefs. When people would like a certain idea or concept to be true, they end up believing it to be true. They are motivated by wishful thinking. This error leads the individual to stop gathering information when the evidence gathered so far confirms the views or prejudices one would like to be true.

 

I bet my grasp on confirmation bias is greater than your own...



gwkucera #42 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 07:16

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View Post_Brew_, on Jun 20 2019 - 12:36, said:

Any tank in the hands of a good player will be good.

 

Any tank in the hands of a bad player will be bad.

 

I have had matches where I did great in my EBR and matches where I've been two shot without getting a shot off.  There are more variables involved than just the vehicle.

Why do people state the obvious like it means something?  The first two lines are known by everyone who has played over 1,000 games here.  All tanks have a bell curve of performance capability based on map, player driving, latency, etc.  I would assume those educated and intelligent among us understand that.  Holding all of those as constant, some tanks perform better than others, and my claim is that the EBR is an outlier, especially in the hands of a good player, where the entire game changes and slow tanks are put in an additionally inferior position re arty and sighting early in the game before they can even get to cover on some maps.
However, when a tank is OP, more people can get even better results than would otherwise be the case.  



gwkucera #43 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 07:29

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View PostQuicksilverJPR, on Jun 21 2019 - 17:28, said:

 

Confirmation bias = Confirmation bias occurs from the direct influence of desire on beliefs. When people would like a certain idea or concept to be true, they end up believing it to be true. They are motivated by wishful thinking. This error leads the individual to stop gathering information when the evidence gathered so far confirms the views or prejudices one would like to be true.

 

I bet my grasp on confirmation bias is greater than your own...

You can imagine all you want, but you didn't use the term correctly above and it is a non sequitur. 
Here is what your initial reply was:
"I'm telling you right now, there are far more REALLY BAD wheeled light tank players than there are good ones.  You only notice the good ones because they're good.  You utterly fail to notice the other 2/3rds that do literally nothing for the team...

 

It's called confirmation bias...and you're loaded with it."

1.  There may be more really bad wheel light tank players than good ones.  This is a non sequitur since we were not discussing the player mix playing the vehicle, but the vehicle itself. 

2.  You make an assumption about me in the next two sentences ex nihilo, and then ironically accuse me of being biased.  :-)  I certainly notice the best players the most, and agree that many times an EBR isn't used properly because of the player misuse.  
Here is what you failed to consider:  It is fairly easy to see the impact a well used EBR has on the game and then shake your head when one is misused.  A well or very well used EBR has a much higher average impact on the outcome of the game than any other vehicle of its tier.  That is my claim.  My claim is not about the player mix that drives it, not about how it can be driven suicidally into the enemy, etc.  When used competently or brilliantly, it is the best vehicle for its tier in the game across the array of random maps in the game.

 



TA_Reaper #44 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 15:27

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I would rather have more Arty than any damn clown cars. Arty instantly dies when hit. Clown cars, IF hit just run off, do their insane auto aim that never misses a shot and hit you three times. WOT really fracked a fairly decent game with clown cars, lights are worthless a scouts, they run circles around mediums, and as for heavies...…….. I detest them so much that an hour ban for a TK has been considered more than once and will more than likely happen in the future.

jeb2 #45 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 15:32

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Also, remember that all the maps except the Kharkov reboot were drawn, dimensions set, and spawn points placed BEFORE wheelies.

 

Thus, wheelies can often reach spot points before:

 

- auto-loaders (and arty) can load

- slower tanks can exit the 100 m immediate spawn area

- folk w/ slower connections even load into the battle

 

I have seen many slow-to-load-in tanks get hit by wheelies before their name "lights" showing they are in the game

 

Thus, I feel wheelies have broken those maps



BobLeeSwaggers #46 Posted Jul 07 2020 - 23:26

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The Ebr line was introduced for all the people who complained about long campy 6 arty dominant games with too many passive scouts, but now they have something new to complain about, no matter what wargaming does people will complain until the game is reduced to the Atari version of tanks from 1977.

 

The Ebr is a new tank and takes time and skill to learn, and learn how to deal with them, thus it offers a high potential advantage to those who do take the time, and thus attracts the most highly skilled players.  Killing ebrs is relatively easy in any other tank(I'm not going to spoil how to do it), except artillery, once one has played them a lot, and I get frustrated with how ineffective my teamates are at dealing with them, clearly inexperienced, clearly leaving lines open for enemy ebrs to take out our artillery teamates(because they are so loved) also it takes a great crew, skills, and flawless connection to have those epic games, you have to die fast a lot, most games you are just a suicide scout in a crappy map who is there to crash and burn fast to provide your team with intel, I've had countless times where a lag spike has sent my ebr 75 crashing into a building, flipping around a bump or rock to die instantly due to everyone focused on me waiting for me to stop, I've even flipped one upside down and timed out, it is possible, and they are getting even more delicate to drive, I think as inexperienced people complain more and cry unfair, eventually they will nerf them into being mid range support(until people complain about them not scouting), and we'll be back to long campy arty games that everyone so loves(to complain about), someday though the game will be perfectly balanced, just like on the old Atari, and no one will complain because no one will be playing it.


Edited by BobLeeSwaggers, Jul 08 2020 - 01:03.


GeneralButtBuster #47 Posted Jul 08 2020 - 13:59

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View PostRacWisco, on Jun 20 2019 - 12:42, said:

These posts are like that movie groundhog day.

Ikr lol, 

 

-"Wheelies are OP for ___ Reason"

-"No the aren't for ___ Reason"

 

 

...

 

-"Wheelies are OP for ___ Reason"

-"No they aren't for ___ Reason"



Nomad20th #48 Posted Jul 25 2020 - 03:45

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I am so sick of them getting chewed up by them.  I've got enough coin and tanks in the garage I now just desert if there is one in the match.  I play the game to have fun and it isn't fun when you are constantly getting trashed by them.

 



GonnaBBQU #49 Posted Jul 25 2020 - 05:00

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View PostMightyBarbarian, on Jun 20 2019 - 02:19, said:

They will soon introduce a Harley Davidson motorcycle with sidecar. Guess what will be in the sidecar...A Bazooka man! with 5 seconds reload.

Some part of the motorcycle will be auto-ricochet, even from JPE100 shells.

Cant wait to get it!!!!



Burhead06 #50 Posted Jul 25 2020 - 06:05

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they can be the most impactful tank in a game via giving vision to their team, sure , but they themselves are rarely going to be the tank that is doing the damage.  by that token any tank can be the most impactful tank in a game by a large margin just by taking a key position on the map.
 

as far as difficulty of hitting them, they are as hard to hit as you allow them to be, if you intentionally or otherwise refuse to lead your shots, or use a poor ammo selection to shoot at them at a given distance , its not the fault of the tank being op, it would be the users error for using the wrong shell type. granted this is under the assumption the servers are not horribly laggy. but this doesn't exactly mean the tanks op. its just a side effect of crappy servers. fix the servers part/most of the issue people have with them would dissipate.
 

as far as the "chance" that wheels will deflect shells is a fallacy. if you post battle hits you'll notice that when an ap/apcr or for that matter heat hits in line with the hull , it will do damage outside of absurd rare circumstances which is just a symptom of spaghetti code in the game that makes weird things happen. which is not exclusive to ebrs. a overwhelming majority of the time if you find yourself having shells damage wheels and not damage the tank , its because your shell does not impact the hull. it impacts the wheels only, or the front fenders of the tank. now if you wanted to make an argument  about how the fenders should be hitboxes and counted as the hull. thats a different argument , which i could understand.

as far as "anti flip" or roll protection,  if anything they are more likely to actually roll than other tanks because of extremely thin hulls making it easier to tip over, and the shape of the hull means they are more likely to roll once tipped instead of just landing on their back , and considering the circumstances required to make them roll they are more often than not going to roll multiple times taking alot of damage and hence , dying. partially because their low hp pool making it easier to die from tumble damage. low weight + high speeds make it very easy to tip over roll of crash in general if you take rougher terrain not well. kinda why you see them flying in the air alot, because low weight + high speed + small ramp = much more air time than any other tank would gain otherwise.



Burhead06 #51 Posted Jul 25 2020 - 06:12

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View PostGeneralButtBuster, on Jul 08 2020 - 12:59, said:

Ikr lol, 

 

-"Wheelies are OP for ___ Reason"

-"No the aren't for ___ Reason"

 

 

...

 

-"Wheelies are OP for ___ Reason"

-"No they aren't for ___ Reason"

you'll notice most of the time when people post that "no they aren't for x reason" they are mostly saying they aren't as op as you claim , and your reason is generically bad. personally i agree they are overtuned , and thats why i agree that the balance pass they are getting is deserved and its entirely possible some of the changes they have inc could be increased. but so many people make so horribly exaggerated claims with little to no proof outside of word of mouth and opinions on things.
 

a extremely large complaint that seems to pop up very common , or atleast used to, was that their "aim hacks" is too op. all it does it make it easier to lock onto target , outside of that their "aim hacks" would be copy pasted the same thing every other tank has, its just a quality of life for the tank to lock on easier because of the speeds they take. they could just as easily give the "aim hacks" which in reality is just a enhanced targeting option that makes it so your reticle doesn't need to be directly on the target , just close and potentially a little off the target. others complain that their dpm is too high, in reality their dpm is on the low end of  tier 10 lights, or that their penetration is too high, again , on the low end of lights. the only exception to this is their he rounds which can justifiably see a nerf in pen. but they dont bring up he shells in general , just say the gun has too much pen/dpm. which is a horrible exaggeration 



KIoemn #52 Posted Jul 25 2020 - 06:13

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View PostPotatoLegend99, on Jun 20 2019 - 03:03, said:

I need to start keeping and posting replays so you can all tell me what I'm doing wrong. I'm constantly missing shots while playing the 105, crashing or turning sideways nearly every game, and constantly getting all of my wheels blown off slowing me down to TOG speeds...I see so many people claiming they never miss, slow down, or crash, but I haven't had a single game like that yet =(


You need good latency and no packet loss to play like that. I have the same issue as you.



FLCN #53 Posted Jul 25 2020 - 16:28

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Light tanks aren't balanced, ebrs aren't the issue

Rundog #54 Posted Jul 25 2020 - 17:29

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The tier 6 AMD is balanced I feel. It's tall and has no boost.

Steeldeathdriver #55 Posted Jul 25 2020 - 19:05

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OP a year ago making an already then, common complaint, here we are a year later..

but by all means, nerf the Italian mediums!  for they are a pox upon the game and have completely thrown it out of balance.



arizonajj #56 Posted Jul 28 2020 - 21:15

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All I know is that I have hit the ebr with HESH and had it bounce.

Also, i have had direct hits with my t92 and done little damage.

How does HESH bounce?

 



Burhead06 #57 Posted Jul 28 2020 - 23:51

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View Postarizonajj, on Jul 28 2020 - 20:15, said:

All I know is that I have hit the ebr with HESH and had it bounce.

Also, i have had direct hits with my t92 and done little damage.

How does HESH bounce?

 

i dont think it bounces , hard coded to detonate on impact, as far as doing zero damage , the only thing that comes to mind is hitting the tip of the gun barrel so the round detonates so far away from the hull it doesn't do damage, but i am honestly unsure. i know the interaction with ebr's and he rounds is iffy at times. which is something that needs to be looked at/tweaked



porsche97 #58 Posted Jul 29 2020 - 18:36

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View PostQuicksilverJPR, on Jun 20 2019 - 09:24, said:

The title of this worthless thread should be "Much Ado About Nothing".

 

I'm telling you right now, there are far more REALLY BAD wheeled light tank players than there are good ones.  You only notice the good ones because they're good.  You utterly fail to notice the other 2/3rds that do literally nothing for the team...

 

It's called confirmation bias...and you're loaded with it.

You sir obviously play and enjoy the EBR 105 which is kind of a irony because that means you are full of confirmation bias I suggest using your brain before you speak or type. The EBR 105 is far too op whether you think it is or isn't. Its soft gun stats are insane for a light tank comparable to the Object 140‚ Its HE shells do wayyyy too much damage thanks to their extremely high pen‚ it's auto aim ability allows it to hit enemy tanks across any map all while going a hundred kilometers a hour‚ it's armour and tires have trollish armour and I've seen them block JG Pz E100 HEAT shells ( keep in mind this is a small car)‚ it also accelerates and turns faster than any modern supercar. The EBR is too op sir and most people agree. 



noupperlobeman #59 Posted Jul 29 2020 - 18:50

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I think if we add the wheels to the hitbox and remove the autoaim they'd be fine

_Hatsune__Miku_ #60 Posted Jul 29 2020 - 19:59

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I still have not found where is this famous EBR AIMBOT that never misses... 




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