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Putting Myths to Bed; MM, Arty, Nerf/Buff, Pay2Win, Et Cetera

MM Arty Nerf Buff Pay2Win

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BoredSightsNA #1 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 01:33

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Why is MM rigged? Arty is the reason this game sucks? Why does this vehicle need a nerf or buff? Is this game Pay2Win? What are some other regular topics that need to be put to bed? I understand that these topics have brought a lot of debate or are just easy topics brought up for trolling. The challenge here is to see if we can talk about these topics without any insults. Are you up for it?

Augustus_Sohn #2 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 01:36

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Yes.

 

PS: You are appreciated. XoXo


Edited by Augustus_Sohn, Jun 25 2019 - 01:37.


haxmachine21 #3 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 01:43

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Going to take a shot on that 3rd category.


 

Mauerbrecher needs a buff badly. Desperately inferior, and I'd compare it to the Chi-Nu Kai in terms of uselessness.Armor needs to have the machine gun weakspot removed. Gun needs an RoF buff....or needs to be replaced with the historical 15cm that the VK 168.01 was supposed to have. Also, possibly a health buff.


 

There's my 2 cents.


 



PotatoLegend99 #4 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 01:51

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The wheelies have broken this game =0

 

(I LOVE my EBR 75 and 105 and love how dynamic they are, but I also realize how frustrating they are for the majority elderly/bad internet player base on our server. I definitely don't believe they've drastically altered the game, but the 105 is definitely due for a nerf/rebalance)



__WarChild__ #5 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 02:00

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View PostBoredSightsNA, on Jun 24 2019 - 18:33, said:

Why is MM rigged? Arty is the reason this game sucks? Why does this vehicle need a nerf or buff? Is this game Pay2Win? What are some other regular topics that need to be put to bed? I understand that these topics have brought a lot of debate or are just easy topics brought up for trolling. The challenge here is to see if we can talk about these topics without any insults. Are you up for it?

 

1) MM is only rigged against me, no one else.  This is a proven fact, and George Preddy confirmed it!

2) Yes, there is no reason to keep arty in the game except for the people who "need it" for various reasons.

3) Too many vehicles need adjustments to answer this.

4) If this game was pay to win, I'd have a 90% winrate.  However, certain premium tanks are OP, so there's that.

5) I don't really care about ANY complaints.  Only constructive suggestions for change that might actually occur.

6) If I owned/operated the NA server separate from the rest (like Asia), there would some complaints the first month as people got used to the changes, then this game would go on to be even more successful in the US/SA than it is now.

 



Buttknuckle #6 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 02:02

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Your goal to have one thread to discuss all the most discussed topics on the forum in hope of "putting them to bed" is overreaching. All of these topics have been discussed to death without resolution and asking people to reiterate their position on all or some of them again in a singe thread will do nothing to resolve the differences of opinion. I suggest you refine the scope of your proposal.

Or better yet, if you're really curious as to what people think on any of these topics then use the search function and read to your hearts content the myriad of threads you'll uncover. So much faster than asking people to type it all out again.



BoredSightsNA #7 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 03:08

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View PostButtknuckle, on Jun 24 2019 - 19:02, said:

Your goal to have one thread to discuss all the most discussed topics on the forum in hope of "putting them to bed" is overreaching. All of these topics have been discussed to death without resolution and asking people to reiterate their position on all or some of them again in a singe thread will do nothing to resolve the differences of opinion. I suggest you refine the scope of your proposal.

Or better yet, if you're really curious as to what people think on any of these topics then use the search function and read to your hearts content the myriad of threads you'll uncover. So much faster than asking people to type it all out again.

 

I've been at these forums for almost 7 and a half years. I have almost every one of these topics memorized. Nothing will be changed in this game unless the devs have evidence it needs a change.

 

MM isn't rigged. If it were then why do some of us have higher winrates while we all use the same MM?

 

Arty is part of most wargames. It's only those that don't understand this game are those that are griefing others into believing that arty is "broken".

 

None of us have data to prove if any particular tank needs a nerf or a buff. Sure we can provide suggestions to the developers but all we hear are those that get frustrated that say, "My favortie tank sucks. Fix NAOW!".

 

I agree with Warchild. If this game were P2W then all players that play with premium tanks, premium time, premium items, etc., would have higher winrates.


Edited by BoredSightsNA, Jun 25 2019 - 03:17.


JakeTheMystic #8 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 03:18

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Here's my thoughts on some of these topics (since my perspective has slightly changed over the recent months)

 

"rigged" MM - Doesn't necessarily exist in the way people say it does. Someone once said in the game's agreement, they have the ability to "warp" the games one way or another, essentially making the next game harder if you win the previous and vice-versa. I don't necessarily notice this myself. I've been as low as 400wn8 with a 45% and worked my way to as high as 2500 wn8 and a 58%. It's more about the placement of individuals (which to me is random) as far as who is top tier for the match and who is below. WG doesn't make use of WN8, so they would have to be "rigging" by using PR (which is totally irrelevant in my opinion) or WR, which would make sense, but at the same time, not really. If the game was rigged, sub-50% players would be dragged up to 50% and anyone above would be dragged down, we just don't see that. 

 

My diagnosis; People don't like to lose. Especially the competitive ones. People who are gullible might hear the game is rigged and believe it, or they just cant accept the idea that they aren't performing as well as they should be when they are top tier, hindering their team's performance. 

 

Why the game is disliked: This is just left to perspective. Firstly, the NA is the 2nd fastest "dying" server of the RU, EU, APAC, and NA. APAC is the fastest losing around 61% of players since launch, NA is down 53%. Things like Arty, Wheelie tanks, lack of maps, lack of competitive modes (especially them removing ranked), removing leagues, breaking tournaments, ect, just drive people away. Each category could be gone into depth, but I dont have time for that. 

 

Diagnosis: People like what they want to like. The style of game just doesnt appeal to the NA as much as some other games. I'd say the biggest reason people are leaving is due to lack of end-game, and repetitive gameplay (mostly lack of maps). 

 

Tanks to nerf or buff:

Nerf: 430U (Literally the best medium in the game, far more superior in every way to the 907), Chieftain (No weakspots on the turret, unlike any other hull-down tank), EBR (too accurate on the move)

 

Buff: Most of the American tech tree and German tech tree. Small tweaks to the 50B would be nice, BC arty for sure (its basically a paper-weight at this point), other than that, nothing really jumps out. 

 

Pay to win: At tier 10, not so much. Clan wars tanks are far superior (most of them at least) to their tech-tree counterparts, but anyone can get those for free by getting better and joining an active clan. At tiers 5-8, oh **** yeah its P2W. Its really hard to grind legit tanks when everyone is running around in premiums that are 300% better than the tech tree tanks. I've only really really enjoyed playing tier 10 for the last year or so because of new premiums like the Defender, IS-3A, Skorp G, Lansen, Progetto, completely destroying tier 8 pubs (not to mention you cant get these on the tech tree). 

 

Other topics:

"Cheaters": They arent running rampant, most claims of people cheating either have no idea how mods work (i.e. they arent server side, they cant change pen values or make you shoot through walls). Or when they watch a replay, they assume that any small thing could resemble a cheat. (i.e. one guy was aiming for a weak spot and someone in the comments said he was using an aim bot to do so because he was aiming too fast.) 

 

Chat: Should just remove chat all together except for training rooms. and advances/skirms. (Please for the love of all things holy, remove voice chat. It serves no purpose when Teamspeak and Discord exist, people just join and ear rape whoever doesnt have it turned off. Numerous times Ive had people in a skirm complain about some troll joining and yelling into their mic and causing chaos in the battle. (They can sit in the queue OUTSIDE of the match and people in the match will hear it, making it so nobody could kick them from the room.)

 

Rigging: Mission rigging and clan wars rigging is still EXTREMELY common. Everyone knows it, anyone in a clan knows of it in clan wars and quite a few have seen it in battles. Kind of hard to deal with since nobody reports these things, but they should be reported and harsher punishments dealt out. 

 

Teamkilling: Its back in full force and its extremely common. I see maybe one person turn blue every 5 games or less. In Frontline people were shoving other people off of caps, shoving allies out of bushes or off of cliffs and I havent heard of ANY punishments going out for this sort of thing. Not to mention the harassment and toxicity in the chat if YOU dont do what someone else wants you to do. 

 

Probably many other things that I'm leaving out, but I assure you it wouldnt be anything positive. 



BoredSightsNA #9 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 03:34

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Jun 24 2019 - 20:18, said:

Here's my thoughts on some of these topics (since my perspective has slightly changed over the recent months)...

 

Rigging: Mission rigging and clan wars rigging is still EXTREMELY common. Everyone knows it, anyone in a clan knows of it in clan wars and quite a few have seen it in battles. Kind of hard to deal with since nobody reports these things, but they should be reported and harsher punishments dealt out. 

 

 

Thank you. You have given me a lot to go over. I'll reply when I have more time.

 

As for mission rigging and clan wars rigging... This right here is my biggest complaint about this game. Why compete when others can abuse the system? This is why I have never played CW's. Now that I have a lot of tier 10's and that tier 10 is the only place to earn bonds I want to improve my top tier game. I really want to earn gold the good old fashion way. But I know of a few that have a boat load of gold without participating in CW's but are in a big clan. Everything I have in this game was made the hard way and that is to go to work to earn money to pay for gold. Anyway I'll keep taking this game for what it is. When I do that I enjoy the game more.


Edited by BoredSightsNA, Jun 25 2019 - 03:35.


DeviouslyCursed #10 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 03:36

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View PostBoredSightsNA, on Jun 25 2019 - 01:33, said:

Why is MM rigged? Arty is the reason this game sucks? Why does this vehicle need a nerf or buff? Is this game Pay2Win? What are some other regular topics that need to be put to bed? I understand that these topics have brought a lot of debate or are just easy topics brought up for trolling. The challenge here is to see if we can talk about these topics without any insults. Are you up for it?

 

What a stupid thread...

 

Doh! Challenge Failed.


Edited by DeviouslyCursed, Jun 25 2019 - 03:39.


HorrorShow #11 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 03:49

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"Why is MM rigged?"

 

The question should be "is MM rigged?" MM is rigged in favor of great players platooning together, although, not necessarily intentional. Pertaining to random games, all other ideas of "rigged" MM are based on personal suspicion.

 

 

"Arty is the reason this game sucks?"

 

Personally, I don't find that the game "sucks," although, I wish some things were changed. The fact that the game is losing players may have more to do with competing game companies.

 

 

"Is this game Pay2Win?"

 

Yes, and Grind2Win as well. By "win," I mean to increase your chance of winning. The artillery class is less affected, which is a great reason to play it.


Edited by HorrorShow, Jun 25 2019 - 06:33.


BoredSightsNA #12 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 04:02

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View PostDeviouslyCursed, on Jun 24 2019 - 20:36, said:

 

What a stupid thread...

 

Doh! Challenge Failed.

 

lol @ "Challenge Failed"


Edited by BoredSightsNA, Jun 25 2019 - 04:03.


JakeTheMystic #13 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 06:12

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View PostBoredSightsNA, on Jun 24 2019 - 17:34, said:

 

Thank you. You have given me a lot to go over. I'll reply when I have more time.

 

As for mission rigging and clan wars rigging... This right here is my biggest complaint about this game. Why compete when others can abuse the system? This is why I have never played CW's. Now that I have a lot of tier 10's and that tier 10 is the only place to earn bonds I want to improve my top tier game. I really want to earn gold the good old fashion way. But I know of a few that have a boat load of gold without participating in CW's but are in a big clan. Everything I have in this game was made the hard way and that is to go to work to earn money to pay for gold. Anyway I'll keep taking this game for what it is. When I do that I enjoy the game more.

 

Every clan out there rigs battles in clan wars. At least any clan in the top 100 that is, I'd argue that any clan outside of that range really isn't active. Something like 170 clans participated in the last campaign and maybe 70 of those quit after the first 2-3 days. 

 

I've been in 14 clans at this point. 1 of my own and only 1 other that had no battles in clan wars. As for the other 12, they all organized some battles in some way to either;

1. Prevent penalties for another clan by offsetting their battle (but still throwing to let them win, also one of the more popular was to rig a battle)

2. Simply asking the land-owner (preferably one that would be considered an "ally" to give them the land. Land owner shows for battle, but doesnt shoot and allows the other to take the land. (really common)

3. Simply joining the battle and immediately exiting so they could make it to the next battle that popped up 30 seconds after (common for the 15-minute offset battles. Havent seen it as much recently since the window has been limited to a 5-second offset or so, so its not really possible.)

4. Shooting nobody but letting the allied team cap to prevent tanks from being locked (goes with no.2)

5. Bringing all tier 9s so the enemy doesnt get any progress towards missions (doesnt matter if tanks get locked either)

6. Both teams shoot each other but leave 1 tank left on either team to maximize mission progress (still organized)

 

Plus many others that I've forgot to mention.

 

It sucks, but it happens every season I've been in. WG knows it happens, they know everyone does it but they decide not to take action. Instead, they implement an "alliance" system so people can officially rig battles with no penalty. They said in their new rules that you are not allowed to "rig" battles, but you cant attack allied provinces. So what happened? A lot of people didnt join the alliance because;

 

1. You have to pay "tax" to the clan above you

2. You cant rig a battle if you cant attack them in the first place. 

 

The only clans that did alliances were the top dogs holding the top spots and the clans gullible enough to be an ally under them. 

 

Congratulations WG, you played yourselves. 

 

As far as mission rigging. I know the T-22 Med was only really achieved through rigging, everyone admits to it. As for the personal missions, ive seen it, not a lot, but its there. I've heard people talk about rigging them in my last 5 clans. As for individuals, I know of at least 3 on my friends list who rigged to get the 260 at least once. 

 

Does WG ever do anything about that either? Nope. 



BoredSightsNA #14 Posted Jun 25 2019 - 06:22

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Jun 24 2019 - 23:12, said:

 

Every clan out there rigs battles in clan wars. At least any clan in the top 100 that is, I'd argue that any clan outside of that range really isn't active. Something like 170 clans participated in the last campaign and maybe 70 of those quit after the first 2-3 days. 

 

I've been in 14 clans at this point. 1 of my own and only 1 other that had no battles in clan wars. As for the other 12, they all organized some battles in some way to either;

1. Prevent penalties for another clan by offsetting their battle (but still throwing to let them win, also one of the more popular was to rig a battle)

2. Simply asking the land-owner (preferably one that would be considered an "ally" to give them the land. Land owner shows for battle, but doesnt shoot and allows the other to take the land. (really common)

3. Simply joining the battle and immediately exiting so they could make it to the next battle that popped up 30 seconds after (common for the 15-minute offset battles. Havent seen it as much recently since the window has been limited to a 5-second offset or so, so its not really possible.)

4. Shooting nobody but letting the allied team cap to prevent tanks from being locked (goes with no.2)

5. Bringing all tier 9s so the enemy doesnt get any progress towards missions (doesnt matter if tanks get locked either)

6. Both teams shoot each other but leave 1 tank left on either team to maximize mission progress (still organized)

 

Plus many others that I've forgot to mention.

 

It sucks, but it happens every season I've been in. WG knows it happens, they know everyone does it but they decide not to take action. Instead, they implement an "alliance" system so people can officially rig battles with no penalty. They said in their new rules that you are not allowed to "rig" battles, but you cant attack allied provinces. So what happened? A lot of people didnt join the alliance because;

 

1. You have to pay "tax" to the clan above you

2. You cant rig a battle if you cant attack them in the first place. 

 

The only clans that did alliances were the top dogs holding the top spots and the clans gullible enough to be an ally under them. 

 

Congratulations WG, you played yourselves. 

 

As far as mission rigging. I know the T-22 Med was only really achieved through rigging, everyone admits to it. As for the personal missions, ive seen it, not a lot, but its there. I've heard people talk about rigging them in my last 5 clans. As for individuals, I know of at least 3 on my friends list who rigged to get the 260 at least once. 

 

Does WG ever do anything about that either? Nope. 

 

 

I'm just going to have to take your word for it because I have no real clan experience in this game. Your reply is quite the eye opener. +1







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