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New Player Experience SUCKS

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Kramah313 #21 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 14:55

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View PostGarandster, on Jun 27 2019 - 14:49, said:

The best thing you can do for the new player experience is get to tier 5, everything stabilizes there and becomes better. There is also the HP buff for low tiers coming that will help resolve issues like PZ I Cs running around and clipping you out in 2 seconds. Seriously, as it sits, making a mistake at low tiers is far more dangerous/game ending than at top tiers, its hilarious.


This. I can’t tell you many times I got clipped out by PZ 1C in my T-46. And that quick Death is made even worse now by the long wait for the next battle. At tier 5 at least when you get one shotted by a KV-2 you can quickly move on to the next one. And if you stick around to watch at tier 5 you might pick up some playing tips and tactics, whereas at tier 2 you’re just watching more insanity. 


Edited by Kramah313, Jun 27 2019 - 14:58.


ThePigSheFlies #22 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 15:21

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everyone in here is talking about how bad the new player experience is, and that it should be easier, faster, and more convenient to crew up.

 

counterpoint.  we've all seen people in higher tiers that have zero game/map knowledge.  either from buying their way in via a tier 8 premium, or just simply failing their way higher.  are those really the folks you want in higher tiers?

 

by the way, let's say folks do fail their way to higher tiers: 

  • are they more likely to stick around because of sunk time/resources logical fallacy?
  • are they more likely to quit and cut their losses?

 

With premium time bonuses and daily missions what they are, coupled with boosters that aren't that difficult to gain, add in a platoon bonus to xp and credits, and recently "crew books" - the game is now arguably easier than ever to skip the "painful low tiers".  In many circumstances I would argue that scenario isn't really a good thing per se'.



HeraldricKnight #23 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 15:36

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jun 27 2019 - 14:21, said:

everyone in here is talking about how bad the new player experience is, and that it should be easier, faster, and more convenient to crew up.

 

counterpoint.  we've all seen people in higher tiers that have zero game/map knowledge.  either from buying their way in via a tier 8 premium, or just simply failing their way higher.  are those really the folks you want in higher tiers?

 

by the way, let's say folks do fail their way to higher tiers: 

  • are they more likely to stick around because of sunk time/resources logical fallacy?
  • are they more likely to quit and cut their losses?

 

With premium time bonuses and daily missions what they are, coupled with boosters that aren't that difficult to gain, add in a platoon bonus to xp and credits, and recently "crew books" - the game is now arguably easier than ever to skip the "painful low tiers".  In many circumstances I would argue that scenario isn't really a good thing per se'.

 

It's not that the new player experience should be faster or more convenient, but that new players should be able to grasp the basic mechanics of the game without stat-padding, seal clubbers crapping on them before the word go. At what point would a new player want to keep playing the game when a +4 Skilled Crew in a M2 Medium or Derp Cruiser keeps derping HE shots at lightning speed? Or be machine gunned to death by a cloaking T67? 

 

Shame on Wargaming for selling the Pak40 and the Lead Blower with their 400+ View Range at Tier III and V. Such a painful cash grab at the expense of retaining new players. 

 

Crew Skills and Equipment need to be drastically toned down the lower in the Tiers you go. They scale too well at Tier IV and V, especially with all the Derp Howitzers running around at those Tiers specifically, turning otherwise okay tanks like the T67 into nightmarish, population declining machines for the few who get their jollies off fighting what is essentially paper targets. 

 

The whole point is to see new folks up in Tier VIII, not the same players over and over, or the same overbearing clans over and over. I'd rather see a clueless noob at Tier VIII that I've never seen before than a WONKA or BULBA whining in chat again

 

 

 

 



__WarChild__ #24 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 15:45

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About a year ago, I made a post about a similar experience.  A female friend of mine who is a great Blitz tanker wanted to come over the PC.  I found her a 127 invite code, and so I got her all set up and we platooned together.  She didn't have 6th sense and so didn't know when she was spotted, and we lost 8 games in a row. She had fun and we laughed for the first 2 games.  By the 8th game, she was done and she hasn't been back since.

 

This game has no long term plan and no one cares enough to do something about it. Sad really, but it is what it is.



YANKEE137 #25 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 16:07

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All good points. I will add that maybe there are too many choices in tanks for new players. I've talked to people who were attracted by the ads with Pattons and Panthers and Tigers duking it out, then they loaded up and all the tanks look like cardboard boxes with broomsticks guns. I'm not saying start at tier 6, just remove a lot of the junk wagon choices from tiers two and three.  They're not good, they're not famous, and nobody is going to keep them anyway. They just create a feeling of despair- facing a long,  hopeless grind of one crappy tank after another.

ThePigSheFlies #26 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 16:55

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Jun 27 2019 - 09:36, said:

 

It's not that the new player experience should be faster or more convenient, but that new players should be able to grasp the basic mechanics of the game without stat-padding, seal clubbers crapping on them before the word go. At what point would a new player want to keep playing the game when a +4 Skilled Crew in a M2 Medium or Derp Cruiser keeps derping HE shots at lightning speed? Or be machine gunned to death by a cloaking T67? 

 

Shame on Wargaming for selling the Pak40 and the Lead Blower with their 400+ View Range at Tier III and V. Such a painful cash grab at the expense of retaining new players. 

 

Crew Skills and Equipment need to be drastically toned down the lower in the Tiers you go. They scale too well at Tier IV and V, especially with all the Derp Howitzers running around at those Tiers specifically, turning otherwise okay tanks like the T67 into nightmarish, population declining machines for the few who get their jollies off fighting what is essentially paper targets. 

 

The whole point is to see new folks up in Tier VIII, not the same players over and over, or the same overbearing clans over and over. I'd rather see a clueless noob at Tier VIII that I've never seen before than a WONKA or BULBA whining in chat again

 

 

 

I will respectfully disagree as to the "point".  or even how "prevalent of a problem" it is.  that being said, I don't spend much time in lower tiers.  most of the tier 5s in this graph (my tank tier battle distribution) are mid-tier LTs that used to see tier 10s for significant portions of my game play in them.

 

 

and yet, literally every time I do step down to play an old keeper tank for a double in a lower tier, I get some snarky comment about "seal clubbing"...  and at the same time I don't see that many obvious clubbers down there.  *shrug*

 

for what it's also worth, I have in the past used lower tier tanks to train up new crews for higher tier tanks.  e.g.  the T67 which I haven't played in quite some time has had 4 crews run through it, most when it had the good old closed top...

 

in my last 1k battles, I have played 19 battles at tier 4 or 3, and another 60 ish in tier 5, with over half of those in my old, beloved chaffee that I've had since 2012, and used to play a lot more.  I legit miss the days when it was a better tank that saw tier 10s...

 

as for bulba player whining in chat.  I legit have never seen that either.  the few bulba players that I know that still play typically don't have chat turned on.  and even if they did, I'd rather see them rage/whine in chat than see some clueless non participating muppet that belongs in tier 3 sitting 15m from spawn location with no idea how much dead weight they are being...

 

but that's just my own personal perspective.  when I vent in chat, it's not about MM, or losing streaks.  it's almost always about non participating muppets, or the maps that have me tilted.



Tod_kommt #27 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 17:05

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   Ban the Wheel

Trauglodyte #28 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 17:43

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View PostKINGN0VA, on Jun 27 2019 - 06:15, said:

So, I've invited a friend to play the game. I'm trying my best to play the lower tiers with him to help him GRIND through the absolutely unrewarding and horrible experience. For the love of creation please do something about this... These tanks suck, the whole experience sucks. How I got through it all those years ago? I don't know - maybe comparatively then it wasn't so bad, but now there is zero appeal to playing such [edited]gameplay.

 

It's just stupid to have a system the promotes more seasoned players to participate in these tiers simply because they have better crews and more experience. And GET RID OF 50% crews... omg how dumb can your producers be to think that this adds ANY depth or value at the lower tiers. 50% crews are just stupid to begin with... Tanks has had plenty of time to mature and figure this out. STOP CHARGING PEOPLE TO MOVE THEIR CREWS UP AS THEY TIER UP... THAT'S AN IMMEDIATE TURNOFF. A WASTE.

 

This is such a glaring issue it's unbelievable that it's still like this all these years later.

 

It isn't necessarily the new player experience but, rather, the blow back from poor stat allocation at low tiers.  New players suffer more, because they don't know the why.  But, even experienced players, like me, still have struggles at low tiers.  Case in point, I have a 3 skill crew, on my Luchs.  But, due to the horribly weak vision, I can't see anything, without a set of Binoculars, when scouting.  This leads to a vision problem, when I'm on the move.  So, even with 3 skills, camo, equipment, and 200 games of experience, I'm still 100% countered by some turd sitting in a bush, regardless of how new or experienced THEY are.  Throw in the unfortunate turning of a corner, only to face a tier 5 derp, and even 21k game vets, like me, get jaded.

 

The over arching problem is that the linear gains, in stats, is too steep.  Because of that, it causes major problems, at the lower tiers.  It gets worse with weak armor and big HE bombs combined with auto-loaders.  NO tank, at any tier or tier difference, should be able to be taken from 100% to dead, in a single shot or clip.  That's just bad business.

 

View PostPotatoLegend99, on Jun 27 2019 - 07:14, said:

Go on the SA server if your friend can tolerate the lag. It's easy to power grind the low tiers there because they have bots up to tier 5

 

Great advice, with one caveat - the bots are actually pretty decent, when you spar with them, and are often better than the LATAM players.  Sad really but it is the truth.

 

View Post__WarChild__, on Jun 27 2019 - 15:45, said:

About a year ago, I made a post about a similar experience.  A female friend of mine who is a great Blitz tanker wanted to come over the PC.  I found her a 127 invite code, and so I got her all set up and we platooned together.  She didn't have 6th sense and so didn't know when she was spotted, and we lost 8 games in a row. She had fun and we laughed for the first 2 games.  By the 8th game, she was done and she hasn't been back since.

 

This game has no long term plan and no one cares enough to do something about it. Sad really, but it is what it is.

 

LIES!!!  There are NO women in WoT.  It was really a "dude looks like a lady" experience.  You've been duped, my friend!



HeraldricKnight #29 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 17:49

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jun 27 2019 - 15:55, said:

Literally every time I do step down to play an old keeper tank for a double in a lower tier, I get some snarky comment about "seal clubbing"...  and at the same time I don't see that many obvious clubbers down there.  *shrug*

 

for what it's also worth, I have in the past used lower tier tanks to train up new crews for higher tier tanks.  e.g.  the T67 which I haven't played in quite some time has had 4 crews run through it, most when it had the good old closed top...

 

in my last 1k battles, I have played 19 battles at tier 4 or 3, and another 60 ish in tier 5, with over half of those in my old, beloved chaffee that I've had since 2012, and used to play a lot more.  I legit miss the days when it was a better tank that saw tier 10s...

 

So playing 8% of your games at or below Tier V and not seeing a seal clubber invalidates the experiences of people trying to recruit new players into the game. Meanwhile, a certain forum goer with a Calvin and Hobbs fetish is living proof they exist, but hey, you didn't see him, so he must not exist. 

 

Makes sense. 

 

 

 

 


Edited by HeraldricKnight, Jun 27 2019 - 17:51.


jsn87xi76slk92mc802d7sk1 #30 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 18:01

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it has always sucked

 

the best route has always been get a prem tank, find a friend who is competent to teach you the ropes in like 100 games, then you just freexp convert to decent tanks and go from there as you learn



jsn87xi76slk92mc802d7sk1 #31 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 18:02

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jun 27 2019 - 15:21, said:

everyone in here is talking about how bad the new player experience is, and that it should be easier, faster, and more convenient to crew up.

 

counterpoint.  we've all seen people in higher tiers that have zero game/map knowledge.  either from buying their way in via a tier 8 premium, or just simply failing their way higher.  are those really the folks you want in higher tiers?

 

by the way, let's say folks do fail their way to higher tiers: 

  • are they more likely to stick around because of sunk time/resources logical fallacy?
  • are they more likely to quit and cut their losses?

 

With premium time bonuses and daily missions what they are, coupled with boosters that aren't that difficult to gain, add in a platoon bonus to xp and credits, and recently "crew books" - the game is now arguably easier than ever to skip the "painful low tiers".  In many circumstances I would argue that scenario isn't really a good thing per se'.

and none of that matters if you do 1 shot of damage every other game and lose 70% of your games

 

 



ThePigSheFlies #32 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 18:04

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Jun 27 2019 - 11:49, said:

 

So playing 8% of your games at or below Tier V and not seeing a seal clubber invalidates the experiences of people trying to recruit new players into the game. Meanwhile, a certain forum goer with a Calvin and Hobbs fetish is living proof they exist, but hey, you didn't see him, so he must not exist. 

 

Makes sense. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll re focus your snarkiness at this part that you evidently missed.

 

Block Quote

but that's just my own personal perspective.  when I vent in chat, it's not about MM, or losing streaks.  it's almost always about non participating muppets, or the maps that have me tilted.

 

 



ArcticTankHunter #33 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 18:05

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View PostTod_kommt, on Jun 27 2019 - 17:05, said:

   Ban the Wheel

 

They should nerf the wheel so it doesn't need to be a scout that drives in the open circling around like Warthunder and Armour Warfare. Hello WG. Out of all the tanks games. WG made wheel tanks roles completely wrong. It is a recon vehicle that spots enemies far away or flanker.


Edited by ArcticTankHunter, Jun 27 2019 - 18:13.


ReddNekk #34 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 18:30

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World of Warships has a Co-Op mode, players against bots. Players only earn half as much XP and credits as they would in PvP, but it's very helpful for new players because they can learn the game and get comfortable with their botes without getting seal clubbed before jumping into the shark tank. I'm sure that Co-Op helps a lot with new player retention in WoWS.

 

When I started playing WoT over 2 months ago I was surprised that there isn't something like WoWS Co-Op. Hell, both games are run by the same company!



Rundog #35 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 18:32

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Yeah tiers 1-4 are hard going. I'm not sure how I made it though. At tier 5 pen is very odd, there are meds you can't pen with AP..

OLDIRTYBOMBER #36 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 18:57

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Pay to win games are always amazing for new players.

Like .... who would even bother playing if there wasn't an additional 20 things that provide battle field advantages that you must earn by playing or skip entirely by spending money?

Simply playing tanks, getting good at the game and unlocking new tanks is lame and boring without pay to win dynamics :trollface:



Akrotiri #37 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 19:59

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jun 27 2019 - 09:21, said:

everyone in here is talking about how bad the new player experience is, and that it should be easier, faster, and more convenient to crew up.

 

counterpoint.  we've all seen people in higher tiers that have zero game/map knowledge.  either from buying their way in via a tier 8 premium, or just simply failing their way higher.  are those really the folks you want in higher tiers?

 

by the way, let's say folks do fail their way to higher tiers: 

  • are they more likely to stick around because of sunk time/resources logical fallacy?
  • are they more likely to quit and cut their losses?

 

With premium time bonuses and daily missions what they are, coupled with boosters that aren't that difficult to gain, add in a platoon bonus to xp and credits, and recently "crew books" - the game is now arguably easier than ever to skip the "painful low tiers".  In many circumstances I would argue that scenario isn't really a good thing per se'.

 

What makes you think that making the lower tiers more enjoyable leads to ignorant players in higher tiers?

 

It doesn't follow.  In fact, if the lower tiers weren't so bad, perhaps more people would stay there, and actually learn the game.  That would benefit everyone.



ThePigSheFlies #38 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 21:57

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View PostAkrotiri, on Jun 27 2019 - 13:59, said:

 

What makes you think that making the lower tiers more enjoyable leads to ignorant players in higher tiers?

 

It doesn't follow.  In fact, if the lower tiers weren't so bad, perhaps more people would stay there, and actually learn the game.  That would benefit everyone.

 

re-read what I typed, and then re-read what you typed.  I'm specifically referencing making it even easier, and faster to move up, I'm not talking at all about making tiers 1-3 "enjoyable".  free crew retraining for example...  again, with what we already have, with premium time bonuses, daily premium missions, boosters, and platoon bonuses it's already pathetically easy to move past the seal clubbed tiers...

 

regardless, your hypothesis is even more flawed.  tiers 1-4 aren't really learning tiers.  and we see evidence of it all of the time of people that skip the middle learning tiers and jump all the way to tier 8+ and sit 25m from spawn aimlessly moving their gun around waiting for someone to drive in front of it...  

 

I would also submit that this is exactly what wargaming wants.  dangle the carrot, get folks to move up quickly, regardless of ability, and then, they go broke because with their 0.3 dmg ratio's they take a credit loss on every battle.  thus, they buy premium time, premium tanks, gold chests, etc.



Akrotiri #39 Posted Jun 27 2019 - 22:54

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jun 27 2019 - 15:57, said:

 

regardless, your hypothesis is even more flawed.  tiers 1-4 aren't really learning tiers.  and we see evidence of it all of the time of people that skip the middle learning tiers and jump all the way to tier 8+ and sit 25m from spawn aimlessly moving their gun around waiting for someone to drive in front of it... 

 

Oh, OK.  Because some people are unwise and trot out with zero experience and a Skorpion G, that's evidence that tiers 1-4 aren't learning tiers.  People don't get any knowledge of how to run a tank, how to choose map spots, how to fire and retreat, how to scout, all that stuff.  NONE of that is learned in the lower tiers.

 

Sure it's not.

 

 



Trakks #40 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 00:52

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View PostKINGN0VA, on Jun 27 2019 - 05:15, said:

So, I've invited a friend to play the game. I'm trying my best to play the lower tiers with him to help him GRIND through the absolutely unrewarding and horrible experience. For the love of creation please do something about this... These tanks suck, the whole experience sucks. How I got through it all those years ago? I don't know - maybe comparatively then it wasn't so bad, but now there is zero appeal to playing such [edited]gameplay.

 

It's just stupid to have a system the promotes more seasoned players to participate in these tiers simply because they have better crews and more experience. And GET RID OF 50% crews... omg how dumb can your producers be to think that this adds ANY depth or value at the lower tiers. 50% crews are just stupid to begin with... Tanks has had plenty of time to mature and figure this out. STOP CHARGING PEOPLE TO MOVE THEIR CREWS UP AS THEY TIER UP... THAT'S AN IMMEDIATE TURNOFF. A WASTE.

 

This is such a glaring issue it's unbelievable that it's still like this all these years later.

Yeah, because you should get the same amount of XP from killing a Loltractor that you get for killing a Maus. *smh* The amount of XP that low tiers get is fair. You don't spend a lot of time in the low tiers anyway, even if you're a bad player so what's the big deal? 







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