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New Player Experience SUCKS

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Blazefang #41 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 00:55

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View PostKINGN0VA, on Jun 27 2019 - 06:15, said:

So, I've invited a friend to play the game. I'm trying my best to play the lower tiers with him to help him GRIND through the absolutely unrewarding and horrible experience. For the love of creation please do something about this... These tanks suck, the whole experience sucks. How I got through it all those years ago? I don't know - maybe comparatively then it wasn't so bad, but now there is zero appeal to playing such [edited]gameplay.

 

It's just stupid to have a system the promotes more seasoned players to participate in these tiers simply because they have better crews and more experience. And GET RID OF 50% crews... omg how dumb can your producers be to think that this adds ANY depth or value at the lower tiers. 50% crews are just stupid to begin with... Tanks has had plenty of time to mature and figure this out. STOP CHARGING PEOPLE TO MOVE THEIR CREWS UP AS THEY TIER UP... THAT'S AN IMMEDIATE TURNOFF. A WASTE.

 

This is such a glaring issue it's unbelievable that it's still like this all these years later.


Take them to a training room first.  Teach a man to fish feed him for a life time. Give a man a fish feed him for a day.



ThePigSheFlies #42 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 13:14

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View PostAkrotiri, on Jun 27 2019 - 16:54, said:

 

Oh, OK.  Because some people are unwise and trot out with zero experience and a Skorpion G, that's evidence that tiers 1-4 aren't learning tiers.  People don't get any knowledge of how to run a tank, how to choose map spots, how to fire and retreat, how to scout, all that stuff.  NONE of that is learned in the lower tiers.

 

Sure it's not.

 

 

 

"how to scout"  LOLOLOL  at tier 1-3?  even the luchs isn't a scout at tier 4, it's a mobile flanking auto cannon of doom.

 

anyway, glad you agree, and can see that the overwhelming evidence supports what I said.

 

tier 1-3 are nothing at all like mid-tier upward.  with the majority of the player base having free, non perked crews, gun handling typically abysmal and tiny view ranges that make tiny maps seem large.

 

tiers 1-3 and largely 4 are basically tiers to acquaint the player base with how to queue up for battle, and not much else more.  one doesn't learn diddly about spotting ranges, side scraping, hull down in those tiers.  one might attempt to practice them if one has learned them elsewhere, such as a FAQ, youtube video, or streamer, but it's not where one "learned them"



Roggg2 #43 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 14:19

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Here's how I would improve it:

 

1)  In tier 1 and tier 2 battles, every tank operates at 100% with 6th sense no matter what your crew is at.  No other skills work in those battle tiers.

2)  Anyone with a battle count above 3k is banned from playing elite tier 1 and 2 tanks unless platooned with someone with a qualifying battle count.

3)  Remove tier 1 and 2 tanks from the viewable stats, and dont count them in the aggregate stats.  ie strip those tiers from your win rate.  No incentive to stat-pad.

 

Probably do something less severe for tier 3.  Like after a 5k battle count, you get 0 credit and xp for playing elite tier 3s unless platooned with someone under 5k battle count.

 


Edited by Roggg2, Jun 28 2019 - 14:28.


Zourn #44 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 14:57

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New player experience... Just flag them(new player) for x amount of battles/time and only allow them to play against other new players and bots.Unless they are platooned up with a non new player... Then reward them with a decent tier 4 premium tank and a huge discount on certain tier V tech tree tanks(KV1) maybe.. you get the point.. The game doesn’t start to open up until tier V/VI anyways... My 2 cents

Knagar #45 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 15:09

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Tank crews are one of the few things AW got right,.that and 6th sense for every. Level commanders, put em in tanks. No mucking about and being forced to pay credits or gold to move crews.

 

Though I don't agree with the lower tiers, they are supposed to be mediocre at best. That's just how the first tanks really were.

 

WG will never listen to the community though, and you can kinda see why. The minute they give in to one thing, they'll have to start giving in to everything. 



GeoMonster #46 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 16:16

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Have you noticed that the GREEN Ron Copeland has chosen to NOT reply to this thread?   Maybe he feels guilty about his massive Seal Clubbing of new players and is one of the reasons new player get dissatisfied rapidly and leave the game?  Or maybe he is now beet red with embarrassment realizing that the truth is is spewing on here is total BS?

 

Something does need to be done though.  50% crews do suck, but I think fixes need to go well beyond that.  Maybe have a MM mode where players under 500 games only see others under 500 games along with bots?  Or do not allow platooning in tiers 4 and below prior to the game starting?  This will eliminate these super platoons of green players having their 75% win rate in seal clubbing tiers.

 

 



SporkBoy #47 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 16:32

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So start a few accounts and run them up through the basecamp tier 6 token. Throw in a premium and grind up a bunch of free XP. Give an account to your friend - make it easier.

Training room, platoon, give them a helping hand.

In the martial arts the noob turnover rate is astronomical so you gotta go out of your way to help the noobs along. They all want overnight success but I been at it for almost 30 years - some things just take a huge investment of excruciatingly hard work. Not everyone can stick it out.

Make it easy, help them out cut some slack. Nothing WG does can compensate for noobs versus 5+ years experienced players so it falls to us to bridge the gap.

Have you helped a noob today?

HeraldricKnight #48 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 17:09

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View PostSporkBoy, on Jun 28 2019 - 15:32, said:

Make it easy, help them out cut some slack. Nothing WG does can compensate for noobs versus 5+ years experienced players so it falls to us to bridge the gap.

Have you helped a noob today?

 

Cutting down the benefits of skilled crews and equipment in lower tiers is nothing? Enabling stats at around Tier VI, VII is impossible? 



grandthefttankV #49 Posted Jun 28 2019 - 18:50

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View PostSporkBoy, on Jun 28 2019 - 15:32, said:

Have you helped a noob today?

 

I help noobs with directions back to the garage



shando_reyer #50 Posted Jun 29 2019 - 17:43

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I've been watching this topic with some interest.  My experience mirrors much of those portrayed here.  And it has confirmed what I was beginning to suspect about this game.  I've been playing some over the past five days, sitting at 155 battles as I write this.  I'm retired, so have a lot of "free" time to devote to my interests and hobbies.  World of Tanks is just my latest hobby (my wife says my hobby is starting new hobbies).  Whether I'll still be playing five days from now is a serious question.

 

In a few words this game has not been much fun to play.

 

After installing the game and before I began playing I looked through the Newcomer's Guide, watched some of videos linked to it, looked through the forums here for information on how to play (found a "code" to use to get a tank, the T14, and some gold) which led to watching more videos on YouTube.  You get the picture, I was "doing my homework" before jumping into the game.  I decided to follow many players' advice found in all this to concentrate on Russian tanks, principally the medium and heavy tank lines.

 

I'll try to keep this brief and relate my most recent experience and my thoughts and reactions it has generated.

 

1. The economy in this game seems crazy.  I just bought the KV-1 heavy tank - 390,000 credits.  It took many battles over several days (and selling all my large repair kits) to get that together.  Yet, if I want to add recommended equipment to improve the tank - gun rammer (200,000 credits), vents (600k!), gun laying drive (500K) -  it all costs more than three times the cost of the tank itself!  Just seems upside down to me, accessories worth more than the tank.  And it's even worse for lower tier tanks. 

 

2. Crew transfers don't make sense (to me).  I can understand retraining the crew for a new tank.  But it's like they're brainwashed and forget everything about the previous tank.  They can't go back.  Craziness.  On would think that once you've learned how to operate one tank you've got it down for the rest of your career.  But not here.  And, at low tiers, the cost of retraining is greater the cost of the tank involved.  This was a real hurdle to get over, too.

 

The whole economy is a big hurdle to get over.  You suffer through stock tanks with ill-trained crews and no equipment.  All of which makes it difficult and tiresome to progress.  I'm at the bottom of the team results more often than I'm near the top.  The team may win but not due to anything I did.

 

3. I've watched and re-watched the video on angling armor, side scraping, etc. all techniques to minimize damage to your tank.  But every time I've driven that KV-1 it gets wrecked.  Quickly.  I'm trying to do what I've read and seen but it doesn't seem to work in an actual game.  I just watched a replay of my last battle in the KV-1 where it got wrecked by an ARL-44.  The ARL's two shots both hit the very tip of my gun barrel and that destroyed my tank.  I guess a KV-1's gun barrel tip is a weak spot. 

 

3a. The information in the two videos on concealment, bushes, etc. also does not match up with my in-game experience.  In my medium or light tanks I'll pull back until the bush goes opaque before firing the gun.  Yet I still get lit as evidenced by the multiple shots by my target and his friends that wreck my tank.

 

Both of these illustrate my frustration with the disconnect between "informational" videos and postings and what I see happening in similar situations in-game.  No doubt I'm doing something wrong but the "how to" stuff has not been helping much.

 

I could add much more, but I'm getting tired and need a nap.  Thanks for reading if you got this far.

 

S.R.

 

 

 

 


Edited by shando_reyer, Jun 30 2019 - 02:56.


Tao_Te_Tomato #51 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 02:41

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View PostSporkBoy, on Jun 28 2019 - 16:32, said:

So start a few accounts and run them up through the basecamp tier 6 token. Throw in a premium and grind up a bunch of free XP. Give an account to your friend - make it easier.

Training room, platoon, give them a helping hand.

In the martial arts the noob turnover rate is astronomical so you gotta go out of your way to help the noobs along. They all want overnight success but I been at it for almost 30 years - some things just take a huge investment of excruciatingly hard work. Not everyone can stick it out.

Make it easy, help them out cut some slack. Nothing WG does can compensate for noobs versus 5+ years experienced players so it falls to us to bridge the gap.

Have you helped a noob today?

 

That's a lot of "good idea!" in one post!  :honoring:

 

@SR: 

 

1.  Just remember that you can keep the accessories (and earn new ones in various ways) as you move around.  The economy is a bit weird, I agree, but do-able.

 

2.  No argument on crews.  It's not going to ever change, but you'd think that a driver going from an M4 to an M4A3E8 would have nothing whatsoever to learn.  It's the same freakin' tank, fer Ghu's sake.  I can see maybe the loader and gunner needing some work, but still-n-all....  Even worse is that I can stick that same driver in an M4 Improved, a Super Pershing, a Patton KR, or a T95 at NO penalty.  Even worser (so to speak) is that if the M4A3E8 is the "Thunderbolt," then it's perfectly okay and, again, no penalty.  That said, it's not likely to change any time soon.

 

3.  Getting hit is not necessarily because you're lit.  It MIGHT be "blind shots."  If I get hit from a certain direction and there's one large bush in that direction, it may get a few rounds in return.  Shoot'n scoot.

 

The other thing - at 164 battles, NOTHING makes much sense.  Practice, practice, and more practice - as SporkBoy says.  Lots of good advisors here in the forum, though as a safety tip I will say that any "whiney" sort of post will attract the Wrong Sort.  Honest requests for help couched in a polite "what did I do/am I doing wrong, how do I git gudder" tend to get positive responses.  Ignore the unpositive ones.

 

I'd also say that there seem to be more than a few members who'll take time to platoon with you and show you a lot of ropes.  It *really* helps if you're set up on TeamSpeak for things like that.

 

Good Luck, Have Fun, and don't get worn down so quickly.  It's just a game, but it does take time.....



Rimrender #52 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 03:26

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I talk about the game frequently with gamer friends, a good number have tried and few went past tier 3. All of the ones that gave up sited pretty much everything mentioned above.
A new player should not have to grind through half the tech tree(tier 5) to start getting to the enjoyable gameplay or an environment in which they can learn the game. A player can't learn if they are being killed in the first minute by a clubber they have 0 chance standing against(or usually a platoon of them).
And, as usual, out come the clubbers to shout down any claim of it happening or those who want only "skilled" players making it past tier 4.

shando_reyer #53 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 03:59

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View PostTao_Te_Tomato, on Jun 30 2019 - 02:41, said:

 

That's a lot of "good idea!" in one post!  :honoring:

 

@SR: 

 

1.  Just remember that you can keep the accessories (and earn new ones in various ways) as you move around.  The economy is a bit weird, I agree, but do-able.

 

2.  No argument on crews.  It's not going to ever change, but you'd think that a driver going from an M4 to an M4A3E8 would have nothing whatsoever to learn.  It's the same freakin' tank, fer Ghu's sake.  I can see maybe the loader and gunner needing some work, but still-n-all....  Even worse is that I can stick that same driver in an M4 Improved, a Super Pershing, a Patton KR, or a T95 at NO penalty.  Even worser (so to speak) is that if the M4A3E8 is the "Thunderbolt," then it's perfectly okay and, again, no penalty.  That said, it's not likely to change any time soon.

 

3.  Getting hit is not necessarily because you're lit.  It MIGHT be "blind shots."  If I get hit from a certain direction and there's one large bush in that direction, it may get a few rounds in return.  Shoot'n scoot.

 

The other thing - at 164 battles, NOTHING makes much sense.  Practice, practice, and more practice - as SporkBoy says.  Lots of good advisors here in the forum, though as a safety tip I will say that any "whiney" sort of post will attract the Wrong Sort.  Honest requests for help couched in a polite "what did I do/am I doing wrong, how do I git gudder" tend to get positive responses.  Ignore the unpositive ones.

 

I'd also say that there seem to be more than a few members who'll take time to platoon with you and show you a lot of ropes.  It *really* helps if you're set up on TeamSpeak for things like that.

 

Good Luck, Have Fun, and don't get worn down so quickly.  It's just a game, but it does take time.....

 

Thanks for the reply and advice, Tao.

 

You mentioned platooning with "helpful" players.  Is there a mechanism for finding them?  Like a station or place where you can connect?  Haven't seen anything like that on the WoT website here.  I've had platoon invites in game, but there's little communication during a battle and all too often the platoon has broken up when the battle is over.  Not a learning situation for me.  I have teamspeak (and discord) installed from playing other online games (mostly D&D style RPG's .... btw, Shando Reyer is the name of one of my PC's).  Immediate feedback via one of those comm clients would sure be helpful.

 

One question right now ... this "side scraping" thing.  You say "practice, practice, practice", which I'm trying to do.  I've watched that video three times now and I try angling my tank (the KV-1) on a corner to make use of the technique.  And enemy tanks seem to penetrate my side with ease right through the tracks, unlike what the video portrays (I watched a few of my replays and used the Battle Hits mod trying to sort this out, with no success).  I'm pretty sure I have the tank at a proper angle to make their shots have no effect (hell, I taught physics for over 30 years - I know all about normal lines and angles of incidence), but it's not working the way I think it should from what I've seen in that video.  So, obviously, what I'm "practicing" isn't right.

 

Thanks, once again

 

S.R.

 



RaynorShyne #54 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 05:03

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View PostDeviouslyCursed, on Jun 26 2019 - 23:19, said:

 

yeah, from the inability to get a match, to the seal clubbers with 5+skill crews in OP as F tanks, it's not a fun experience.

 

....out of shear, freak curiosity - what tier 1 tank is OP as "F"?



SquishySupreme #55 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 05:08

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The problem with the KV1 is that it is a medium tank with a huge profile, even though it is a "heavy" in the tech tree.  Some people would even go as far as classify it as almost a half-speed LT, since the armor bounces almost nothing at all.  I've had Luchs' entire clips sail through it like tissue paper.  You need to play it more like a second line opportunist and ninja/sniper.  The KV-85 you eventually get is a solid tank, and the KV2 is loads of fun.  But the KV1 was *very* frustrating - I just ground right past it.

shando_reyer #56 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 06:21

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View PostSquishySupreme, on Jun 30 2019 - 05:08, said:

The problem with the KV1 is that it is a medium tank with a huge profile, even though it is a "heavy" in the tech tree.  Some people would even go as far as classify it as almost a half-speed LT, since the armor bounces almost nothing at all.  I've had Luchs' entire clips sail through it like tissue paper.  You need to play it more like a second line opportunist and ninja/sniper.  The KV-85 you eventually get is a solid tank, and the KV2 is loads of fun.  But the KV1 was *very* frustrating - I just ground right past it.

 

Wow.  I'll have to look back for the post or YouTube info that stated the KV-1 was a good tank for learning how to side scrape, angle your armor, etc. to reduce damage.  Now I feel dumb that I've wasted a bunch of time and effort getting this tank.  Just more painful grinding to get past it in the tech tree.  So, aim for the KV-85?  I see in the tech tree I have to go through the KV-1S to get to it.  More grinding, sigh.  Is there a way to make it fun and entertaining?  If you have to call it "grinding", I guess not.  May just throw in the towel, instead.

 

S.R.



vinnybagadonuts #57 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 08:27

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not for nothing, but the best advice here sofar was the invite code that included the t127.  its an outstanding tank and easily puts you in something competitive for every battle you queue it up in.

 

you will also find playing a premium tank results in more credits earned, and a much easier way to grind up a crew (although its a light tank...vs a med or a heavy)

 

I was lucky enough to befriend two folks in Claws many years ago and spent countless battles learning to play the game in a KV1 with their tutelage.  There is nothing wrong with the KV1, however just like most other tanks...it suffers at bottom tier.

 

I will offer up a suggestion though!   everything improves when you play in a toon (assuming the toon has somewhat competent players).  winrate, damage, kills, overall enjoyment...its all better when in a platoon.  there are a number of clans that cater to brand new players, even if clan wars doesnt appeal to you...joining (or participating) with a clan like this would likely make your introductory game play much more enjoyable!


Edited by vinnybagadonuts, Jun 30 2019 - 08:29.


ChaseR392 #58 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 08:50

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View Postshando_reyer, on Jun 30 2019 - 06:21, said:

 May just throw in the towel, instead.

 

S.R.

 

Have to say... I took a peak at your stats to see what tanks you are playing, for a new player you are doing exceptionally well.

 

Something to keep in mind... side-scraping in not a 100% guaranteed thing. When you are angling to get an auto-bounce the "window" is fairly small... if the enemy tank moves even slightly his firing angle may move out of the auto-bounce zone.

 

My advice is to explore some of the other lines at lower tiers before continuing to push higher. For the cost in XP and credits it would take to move from Tier 5 to 6.... you could easily grind multiple other lines to Tier 3. Everybody is different... what is considered a "go-to" tank by the majority of players may not be the best fit for you. There are numerous "fun" tanks scattered through just about every nation at Tier 3 and 4.

 

I also have to ask, what are your expectations for playing this game? Most players with less than 200 battles would slap their own mama to do as well as you are. If you feel you are not doing well... your expectations may be unrealistic. Even the best players lose 35% of the time. Everybody has bad games, everybody underperforms in at least some of the tanks they play, everybody has been one-shotted, ammo-racked, set on fire, blasted by arty, etc. 

 

I can see you are not a fan of grinding... I sympathize, it can be tedious and downright un-fun at times. But it is a large part of the game.... they only way to eliminate it completely is to break out the wallet and buy premium tanks. One thing I would recommend is explore the lower tiers, find you a handful of tanks you really enjoy playing, and keep them, even if you un-lock the next tank and purchase it. Keep this core group of "fun tanks" ready to go at all times, decent crews, consumables and equipment if you can afford it. Work on a grind until you get tired of it.... then go play your fun tanks.



SquishySupreme #59 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 14:29

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The KV1 is a good tank, just that you have to PLAY it like a light tank since it has for some reason about 50% the armor it really should have.  Otherwise it's fine, and the grind to the other two tanks is pretty short.  Stay in the back and play almost like an aggressive TD.

The KV2 is the #1 troll box in the game with a hilariously bad gun that IF it hits, single-shots almost everything its tier or lower.  I play this when I want to just blow off steam and laugh.  Extra good if you are half drunk. :)   Yes, people see you and back up or stop.  Sometimes they run away.  The DERP is so horrendous it can change how the enemy team plays.  The downside is the tank is thin, slow, and everyone mobs you once you've fired due to the extra-long reload.  Basically the guy with the bazooka in a room full of handguns.  But you don't really care when you see a TD just evaporate or the HE shell hits someone for *800*+ damage and lights them on fire.  I'm actually laughing as I type this.  Just watch one of the zillion videos and laugh as well. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSg9uUbSd5A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acY8H79ykcw

The KV1-S is faster and much more usable, but it also was a quick grind - I just dropped 75% crew in it, ground past it, and then moved my KV1 crew to the KV85, which is... it feels almost twice as good to me.  good gun, good armor, good mobility.   I hear the IS is even better.  

Edited by SquishySupreme, Jun 30 2019 - 14:46.


Tao_Te_Tomato #60 Posted Jun 30 2019 - 16:40

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View Postshando_reyer, on Jun 30 2019 - 03:59, said:

 

Thanks for the reply and advice, Tao.

 

You mentioned platooning with "helpful" players.  Is there a mechanism for finding them?  Like a station or place where you can connect?  Haven't seen anything like that on the WoT website here.  I've had platoon invites in game, but there's little communication during a battle and all too often the platoon has broken up when the battle is over.  Not a learning situation for me.  I have teamspeak (and discord) installed from playing other online games (mostly D&D style RPG's .... btw, Shando Reyer is the name of one of my PC's).  Immediate feedback via one of those comm clients would sure be helpful.

 

One question right now ... this "side scraping" thing.  You say "practice, practice, practice", which I'm trying to do.  I've watched that video three times now and I try angling my tank (the KV-1) on a corner to make use of the technique.  And enemy tanks seem to penetrate my side with ease right through the tracks, unlike what the video portrays (I watched a few of my replays and used the Battle Hits mod trying to sort this out, with no success).  I'm pretty sure I have the tank at a proper angle to make their shots have no effect (hell, I taught physics for over 30 years - I know all about normal lines and angles of incidence), but it's not working the way I think it should from what I've seen in that video.  So, obviously, what I'm "practicing" isn't right.

 

Thanks, once again

 

S.R.

 

 

There are quite a few in the forum here.  I think cloudwalkr runs some training sessions, you might drop a chat message that way.   Polite in-game requests for friending can be good - that gives you a chance to set up a platoon BEFORE you get into game and it's not quite so ad-hoc.

 

Pay attention in game to chat - a fair number of people on my in-game friends list were ones who more or less said "follow me!" and we romped to a good game.  Afterwards, hit 'em with a friend request and keep an eye out for if/when they're on.

 

Let me also offer a bit of help by putting things in more relate-able terms (yeah, professional communicator).  You are a first level fighter dropping in with a somewhat clannish bunch who have to accept you due to school game rules.  A lot of them already know each other, have played together before, and you're only there because rules require them to let you in the door.  It's likely not the most positive of gaming experiences.  Unfortunately, you can't just run out and buy Gamma World and run your own campaign create your own shoot-em-up tank game, so you're going to have to work with what's there.

 

I am not sure how training rooms work - presumably somebody more knowledgeable will drop a comment, please? - but those are a good way to find out and work on things like angling, terrain, team coordination and suchlike.  And don't forget - some tanks don't angle and sidescrape worth a darn, though that whole "hit to the tracks" thing is not as bad as it sounds.  Again, someone might will certainly correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 







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