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Premium Arty?


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Jhuderis #1 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 18:11

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Not for or against arty in general, just curious if there's ever been an explanation why there's no premium vehicles or "play your tank class right" missions etc. for that type. 

michaeldestroyer #2 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 18:16

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View PostJhuderis, on Jul 02 2019 - 17:11, said:

Not for or against arty in general, just curious if there's ever been an explanation why there's no premium vehicles or "play your tank class right" missions etc. for that type. 

To sum it up. Not much of the player population like artillery.



Altwar #3 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 18:40

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View Postmichaeldestroyer, on Jul 02 2019 - 09:16, said:

To sum it up. Not much of the player population like artillery.

 

Quite the opposite.  SPGs are quite popular in the community.  Don't let this forum fool you about that.

 

I've yet to see an official reason but I've seen that question asked on WGNA streams and the reaction is often like someone asked them to dance with the ugly girl, so to speak.



ChaseR392 #4 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 19:10

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View PostJhuderis, on Jul 02 2019 - 18:11, said:

Not for or against arty in general, just curious if there's ever been an explanation why there's no premium vehicles or "play your tank class right" missions etc. for that type. 


There are two premium SPGs in the game, the Tier III Sexton I and the Tier 5 leFH.

 

As to why they don't add more, or have play your class right missions, nobody knows for sure.... but it is likely do to the fact arty is the 3rd rail of the game... 

 

Personally... don't really mind arty and play it occasionally when I am in a slump. IMO, the hate for it... like the hate for most things in the game... is overblown and irrational. 



Plays_With_Matches #5 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 19:27

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View PostJhuderis, on Jul 02 2019 - 12:11, said:

Not for or against arty in general, just curious if there's ever been an explanation why there's no premium vehicles or "play your tank class right" missions etc. for that type. 

 

Wargaming doesn't want to promote the most despised class in the game. It's one of the biggest reasons for people leaving the game...



JTM78 #6 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 19:31

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Before patch 9.18 WoT said around 75% of WoT players had artillery and played then weekly.

Artillery needs a buff!!!!!!!!

Buttknuckle #7 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 19:51

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At one of the Q&A sessions many years back WG conceded that inclusion of arty in the game was, in hindsight, a bad idea. But the game had progressed to far, and too many players had played arty, for them to simply remove it without a whole lot of backlash and potential legal repercussions for any sort of player compensation approach they could think up.

 

So instead they've taken to treating arty like the unwanted step child and continue to conjure up ways to discourage the player base from playing arty, such as:

Arty is the class that has received the most nerfs, tweaks, and reworks.

Arty is the only class that is restricted in quantity in matches.

Arty is the only class that you cant platoon together.

Arty is the only class for which there aren't a dozen premium vehicles.

Arty is the only class that doesn't have a tier 8 premium.

Leaving arty out of the play your class right missions is just the latest example.


 

Basically, arty is a class that is treated unfairly because WG silently agrees with the vocal player base scorn of the mechanic.


 



Gothraul #8 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 19:59

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By 2012 WG had already made quite a few premium sky cancers however they pulled the plug after adding the French tech tree so they never got the light of day but if you dig around on the net you can find screen shots as well other information about them.

Allf #9 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 20:01

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View PostButtknuckle, on Jul 02 2019 - 13:51, said:

 

 

Basically, arty is a class that is treated unfairly because WG silently agrees with the vocal player base scorn of the mechanic.


 

Pretty much that. All the tin foil and cry-hards are making it that way.

Would of loved to see Japanese artillery introduced into the game but nope...
 



Omega_Weapon #10 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 20:01

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View PostChaseR392, on Jul 02 2019 - 13:10, said:

There are two premium SPGs in the game, the Tier III Sexton I and the Tier 5 leFH.

 

As to why they don't add more, or have play your class right missions, nobody knows for sure.... but it is likely do to the fact arty is the 3rd rail of the game... 

 

Personally... don't really mind arty and play it occasionally when I am in a slump. IMO, the hate for it... like the hate for most things in the game... is overblown and irrational. 


Until they finalize what they really want arty to be, they are staying away from selling premiums as they really don't want to change premiums after the fact and face a backlash of people demanding refunds. Arty has changed a lot because of nerfs and the stun mechanic being added, yet the Premium Sexton and LeFH are unchanged and therefore much better than regular arty is now.



Jhuderis #11 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 20:59

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Cool thanks for the insights everyone. :)

 

In the beginning of the game, there was no arty at all?


Edited by Jhuderis, Jul 02 2019 - 20:59.


dunniteowl #12 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 21:07

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View PostJhuderis, on Jul 02 2019 - 11:11, said:

Not for or against arty in general, just curious if there's ever been an explanation why there's no premium vehicles or "play your tank class right" missions etc. for that type. 

 

Arty has been in the game since ALPHA.  It was Part of the Design Concept.

 

 

I honestly think that there aren't any real 'set-piece' sorts of Play Your Tank Class Right that could fit most any SPG in the same manner that the other classes do across a wider range of tiers overall.  There's only so much an SPG can do:  Fire Shots, Survive, Hit Things.  That's pretty much it

 

As much as I end up playing SPGs, I am not upset at all that there is no "Play Your SPG Right" set of Missions.  It would be hard to come up with a set of them that were reasonable to do at tier III and IV, say, versus that same challenge factor at tier IX or X, say for the same course (101, 201, etc) in the series.

 

And while there is plenty of player angst over arty, there is a larger player base that doesn't really care one way or the other with regard to arty. So I don't worry that it's lack of player support.  I think that's silly if we use evidence based thinking.  The evidence is that you cannot expect an SPG to:

Bounce Damage

Spot Enemy Units

Take out Two or More of...

Do X amount of stun damage relative to HPs, etc.

 

On an easily scaled metric that could go across the tiers as they change so radically from tier to tier and nation to nation in some pretty distinctive ways that makes 'balancing' a set of missions that make 'sense' sort of tricky for the class.  It would have to be segregated into tiered Missions, or have them scaled based on tier, neither of which would be that appealing to the players of SPGs as a whole -- and I don't think there's a set of missions one could complete that the average SPG player could call 'challenging' in many ways, again, due to the limited nature of how SPGs operate on the field.

 

As a very large SPG player, I could tell you having a set of those missions would be nice to have.  That said, i can also see that having a set of missions that would scale well across the tiers and nations in some semblance of uniformity would be hard to achieve as the other Play Your Tank Class Right Missions do.

 

I think WVs, though, should have their own set of parameters by which to scale their Play Your Tank Class Right.  I mean, after all, they're really armored cars or scout cars, not light tanks.  I don't mind them being in the game, though they should be a Class unto themselves that branches off the LT tank line at whatever tier is appropriate (and perhaps later, have a parallel line that branches from cars to LTs or vice versa early on).  I digress.

 

 

Just some of my thoughts on the matter.

 

 

OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Jul 02 2019 - 21:08.


Buttknuckle #13 Posted Jul 02 2019 - 21:56

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View Postdunniteowl, on Jul 02 2019 - 20:07, said:

 

Arty has been in the game since ALPHA.  It was Part of the Design Concept.

 

 

I honestly think that there aren't any real 'set-piece' sorts of Play Your Tank Class Right that could fit most any SPG in the same manner that the other classes do across a wider range of tiers overall.  There's only so much an SPG can do:  Fire Shots, Survive, Hit Things.  That's pretty much it

 

As much as I end up playing SPGs, I am not upset at all that there is no "Play Your SPG Right" set of Missions.  It would be hard to come up with a set of them that were reasonable to do at tier III and IV, say, versus that same challenge factor at tier IX or X, say for the same course (101, 201, etc) in the series.

 

And while there is plenty of player angst over arty, there is a larger player base that doesn't really care one way or the other with regard to arty. So I don't worry that it's lack of player support.  I think that's silly if we use evidence based thinking.  The evidence is that you cannot expect an SPG to:

Bounce Damage

Spot Enemy Units

Take out Two or More of...

Do X amount of stun damage relative to HPs, etc.

 

On an easily scaled metric that could go across the tiers as they change so radically from tier to tier and nation to nation in some pretty distinctive ways that makes 'balancing' a set of missions that make 'sense' sort of tricky for the class.  It would have to be segregated into tiered Missions, or have them scaled based on tier, neither of which would be that appealing to the players of SPGs as a whole -- and I don't think there's a set of missions one could complete that the average SPG player could call 'challenging' in many ways, again, due to the limited nature of how SPGs operate on the field.

 

As a very large SPG player, I could tell you having a set of those missions would be nice to have.  That said, i can also see that having a set of missions that would scale well across the tiers and nations in some semblance of uniformity would be hard to achieve as the other Play Your Tank Class Right Missions do.

 

I think WVs, though, should have their own set of parameters by which to scale their Play Your Tank Class Right.  I mean, after all, they're really armored cars or scout cars, not light tanks.  I don't mind them being in the game, though they should be a Class unto themselves that branches off the LT tank line at whatever tier is appropriate (and perhaps later, have a parallel line that branches from cars to LTs or vice versa early on).  I digress.

 

 

Just some of my thoughts on the matter.

 

 

OvO

 

I disagree. Play your tank right missions for arty would be easy to design. None of them for any of the classes are very difficult (except the absurd block damage in a HT one).

For example the MT missions are:

101-Damage 3 and destroy 1 vehicle

201-Damage 4 and destroy 1

301-Damage 5 and destroy 2

401-Damage 6 and destroy 3


 

Arty could simply be some progressively difficult combo of stun, damage, and kills.


 

I'm going to stand by my reasoning that these arty missions are specifically omitted as yet another passive move to discourage arty play in the game.

 



RagnarokBazil #14 Posted Jul 03 2019 - 23:34

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View Postmichaeldestroyer, on Jul 02 2019 - 12:16, said:

To sum it up. Not much of the player population like artillery.

 

 

black market.. 14k spgs sold out in 5 to 10 mins.. i dont buy your excuse..

 

View PostJhuderis, on Jul 02 2019 - 14:59, said:

Cool thanks for the insights everyone. :)

 

In the beginning of the game, there was no arty at all?

 

Its been here since Alpha..


Edited by RagnarokBazil, Jul 03 2019 - 23:35.


Trakks #15 Posted Jul 06 2019 - 06:55

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View PostChaseR392, on Jul 02 2019 - 18:10, said:


There are two premium SPGs in the game, the Tier III Sexton I and the Tier 5 leFH.

 

As to why they don't add more, or have play your class right missions, nobody knows for sure.... but it is likely do to the fact arty is the 3rd rail of the game... 

 

Personally... don't really mind arty and play it occasionally when I am in a slump. IMO, the hate for it... like the hate for most things in the game... is overblown and irrational. 

It wouldn't surprise me if WG doesn't have a few more premium arty hidden in the database somewhere that just haven't been discovered yet and the public outcry that would ensue is the only reason they don't release them. It doesn't make sense that they would design just two and then stop. 



Omega_Weapon #16 Posted Jul 06 2019 - 20:50

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View PostTrakks, on Jul 06 2019 - 00:55, said:

It wouldn't surprise me if WG doesn't have a few more premium arty hidden in the database somewhere that just haven't been discovered yet and the public outcry that would ensue is the only reason they don't release them. It doesn't make sense that they would design just two and then stop. 


Wasn't enough public outcry to prevent them from offering the existing premium arties for sale on multiple occasions recently. Why would the outcry be any greater for premium arty from a different nation? I believe the real reason is as I stated before. They are holding off until they finalize what they want arty to actually be in its ultimate "balanced" form. Once they settle the mechanics of arty, they can start to sell premium arty again.






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