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Penalize bad players in top tiers


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JunkaTheAdmirable #1 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 20:49

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Problem:

*Bad players who consistently underperform in tiers 9/10 are hurt less in a loss than decent players who have pride in their performance.

 

Example:

*A good player who has pride invests credits into food, prem consumables, prem ammo, directives etc. Even after dealing considerable damage (i.e. 3000+), in a loss ends up in a significant credit deficit.

*A bad player meanwhile who fires 4 standard rounds and deals 0 damage only pays for base repair costs. Thus running a very small credit deficit. Having zero ambition to improve or join a serious clan he quickly cycles through x2/x4/x5s being a burden to every team.

 

Solution:

*(Pub games only) significantly increase repair costs at top tiers (especially tier Xs). Players who achieve low base XP/dmg/assist etc should run significant debts. This penalizes laziness and rapid cycling through games.

*Increase credit payout for base xp/dmg/assist. Scoring well in these categories should yield high credit payouts that reward players for effort, resource investment and performance.

 



VetteTanker #2 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 20:57

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So, only people that use illegal MODS will be able to compete at tiers 9 and 10?... Because its already that way.... Sorry the rest of cant compare to your loft standards... Dont play in PUBS then, problem solved

 



JunkaTheAdmirable #3 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 20:59

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View PostVetteTanker, on Jul 09 2019 - 20:57, said:

So, only people that use illegal MODS will be able to compete at tiers 9 and 10?... Because its already that way.... Sorry the rest of cant compare to your loft standards... Dont play in PUBS then, problem solved

 

 

Yeah dude the only way to do well is by using illegal mods, sounds legit



Ndtm #4 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:02

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The thing is though, that you're only comparing the expenditure, yes, those that shoot more have to spend more to restock but they're also getting more credits (assuming the majority of shots hits and deals damage) than someone that barely fires and doesn't do any damage

Mojo_Riesing #5 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:06

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Here's an idea, let's take all those (sic) GOOD  :medal: players and put them on a BIG boat  :unsure:  for a sea cruise so they can play happy :teethhappy:  without all those nasty plebians!

 

Then...we sink the boat. :arta:



Platedmeat #6 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:11

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Here's an idea......all the "good" players that cry about "bad" players are only allowed to play clam wars and strongholds. 

Ekidutu #7 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:16

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Jul 09 2019 - 19:49, said:

 

 

 

...A good player who has pride invests credits into food, prem consumables, prem ammo, directives etc. Even after dealing considerable damage (i.e. 3000+), in a loss ends up in a significant credit deficit....

 

 

 Or you could choose not to invest in crutches and have pride in winning based on your SKILL.  I don't doubt you have more than average skill, so why do you feel the need to purchase even more of an advantage over average and poor players. Do you ever play a weaker tank to test your skills, or is it always the best?



The_Illusive_Man #8 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:17

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MAJOR problem with this:

Bad players already lose alot of credits in T8+. So, how will this fix the issue?

 

Better solution:

 

Add a requirement to research T9+ tanks such as Average DPG. Would not be something that you can just bypass in another tank. You would need to get a DPG in the tank before it. Only thing that could possibly fix this.

 

This has the effect of also not making it look like a penalty, and also to make these players better


Edited by The_Illusive_Man, Jul 09 2019 - 21:24.


Machisman #9 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:24

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View PostThe_Illusive_Man, on Jul 09 2019 - 14:17, said:

MAJOR problem with this:

Bad players already lose alot of credits in T8+. So, how will this fix the issue?

 

Better solution:

 

Add a requirement to research T9+ tanks such as Average DPG. Would not be something that you can just bypass in another tank. You would need to get a DPG in the tank before it. Only thing that could possibly fix this.

I like your solution. There has to be a mission for every tier, which should be complete prior to moving on to the next. However its too late to implement now, since most of them already have tier 10s. Guess things will never change. Have to live with it or quit it. I chose the later. I started playing other games which interests me. This game is not enjoyable anymore.



Mazati #10 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:28

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Jul 09 2019 - 19:49, said:

Problem:

*Bad players who consistently underperform in tiers 9/10 are hurt less in a loss than decent players who have pride in their performance.

 

Example:

*A good player who has pride invests credits into food, prem consumables, prem ammo, directives etc. Even after dealing considerable damage (i.e. 3000+), in a loss ends up in a significant credit deficit.

*A bad player meanwhile who fires 4 standard rounds and deals 0 damage only pays for base repair costs. Thus running a very small credit deficit. Having zero ambition to improve or join a serious clan he quickly cycles through x2/x4/x5s being a burden to every team.

 

Solution:

*(Pub games only) significantly increase repair costs at top tiers (especially tier Xs). Players who achieve low base XP/dmg/assist etc should run significant debts. This penalizes laziness and rapid cycling through games.

*Increase credit payout for base xp/dmg/assist. Scoring well in these categories should yield high credit payouts that reward players for effort, resource investment and performance.

 

The real key is to find enjoyment in what "you" are doing - if you find it not fun anymore stop playing - none of your ideas nor any of the following ones people come up with will be used unless they wipe and start from scratch and lets imagine they did do you think you would remain "happy" playing WoT with the "new" ruleset?



PAP0 #11 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:32

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Jul 09 2019 - 11:49, said:

Problem:

*Bad players who consistently underperform in tiers 9/10 are hurt less in a loss than decent players who have pride in their performance.

 

Example:

*A good player who has pride invests credits into food, prem consumables, prem ammo, directives etc. Even after dealing considerable damage (i.e. 3000+), in a loss ends up in a significant credit deficit.

*A bad player meanwhile who fires 4 standard rounds and deals 0 damage only pays for base repair costs. Thus running a very small credit deficit. Having zero ambition to improve or join a serious clan he quickly cycles through x2/x4/x5s being a burden to every team.

 

Solution:

*(Pub games only) significantly increase repair costs at top tiers (especially tier Xs). Players who achieve low base XP/dmg/assist etc should run significant debts. This penalizes laziness and rapid cycling through games.

*Increase credit payout for base xp/dmg/assist. Scoring well in these categories should yield high credit payouts that reward players for effort, resource investment and performance.

 


So make tier 9/10 even more expensive than they currently are? Got it.



PAP0 #12 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:34

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View PostThe_Illusive_Man, on Jul 09 2019 - 12:17, said:

MAJOR problem with this:

Bad players already lose alot of credits in T8+. So, how will this fix the issue?

 

Better solution:

 

Add a requirement to research T9+ tanks such as Average DPG. Would not be something that you can just bypass in another tank. You would need to get a DPG in the tank before it. Only thing that could possibly fix this.

 

This has the effect of also not making it look like a penalty, and also to make these players better


Also adding a way better system to help new/underperforming players out. Maybe something like the adopt a tomato the reddit forums have (like the referral program but a unicorn adopts a tomato and both get rewards for working together??) I don't know.



Ekidutu #13 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:36

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Why not use Chieftain as the basis of a skill based tier 11 and possibly 12? With all crutches removed and only very expensive ammo so only the best could qualify.

Also lock crews to those levels. No moving a multi-skill crew down tier to generate income by clubbing

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/


Edited by Ekidutu, Jul 09 2019 - 21:38.


The_Illusive_Man #14 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 21:59

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View PostPAP0, on Jul 09 2019 - 17:34, said:


Also adding a way better system to help new/underperforming players out. Maybe something like the adopt a tomato the reddit forums have (like the referral program but a unicorn adopts a tomato and both get rewards for working together??) I don't know.

 

Good idea. Maybe not unicum level only for the adoptors, as long as the skill gap is enough, the lower end player is going to learn something.



Baron_Von_Krieg #15 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 22:14

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It's the player's choice whether or not to run premium ammo , consumables , etc . They come with a considerable cost . If you're not prepared to pay it , don't use them . 

_Tsavo_ #16 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 22:19

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There is no rule that says a player must be good or meet your standards.  Bads are punished already for being bad, by winning less, getting less experience, and less credits.   That's the punishment. 

 

To want or suggest that bad players be even more punished is asinine at best.  

 

 

 



LeaveIT2Beaver #17 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 22:21

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Jul 09 2019 - 14:49, said:

Problem:

*Bad players who consistently underperform in tiers 9/10 are hurt less in a loss than decent players who have pride in their performance.

 

Example:

*A good player who has pride invests credits into food, prem consumables, prem ammo, directives etc. Even after dealing considerable damage (i.e. 3000+), in a loss ends up in a significant credit deficit.

*A bad player meanwhile who fires 4 standard rounds and deals 0 damage only pays for base repair costs. Thus running a very small credit deficit. Having zero ambition to improve or join a serious clan he quickly cycles through x2/x4/x5s being a burden to every team.

 

Solution:

*(Pub games only) significantly increase repair costs at top tiers (especially tier Xs). Players who achieve low base XP/dmg/assist etc should run significant debts. This penalizes laziness and rapid cycling through games.

*Increase credit payout for base xp/dmg/assist. Scoring well in these categories should yield high credit payouts that reward players for effort, resource investment and performance.

 

 

 

          I am SO very glad you posted this! I was so afraid I would not find it today! 
                                                                   THANK YOU !!:great:

 

                                     . .

 

 

 

 



__WarChild__ #18 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 22:41

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Jul 09 2019 - 13:49, said:

Problem:

*Bad players who consistently underperform in tiers 9/10 are hurt less in a loss than decent players who have pride in their performance.

 

Example:

*A good player who has pride invests credits into food, prem consumables, prem ammo, directives etc. Even after dealing considerable damage (i.e. 3000+), in a loss ends up in a significant credit deficit.

*A bad player meanwhile who fires 4 standard rounds and deals 0 damage only pays for base repair costs. Thus running a very small credit deficit. Having zero ambition to improve or join a serious clan he quickly cycles through x2/x4/x5s being a burden to every team.

 

Solution:

*(Pub games only) significantly increase repair costs at top tiers (especially tier Xs). Players who achieve low base XP/dmg/assist etc should run significant debts. This penalizes laziness and rapid cycling through games.

*Increase credit payout for base xp/dmg/assist. Scoring well in these categories should yield high credit payouts that reward players for effort, resource investment and performance.

 

 

People ask me why I don't play a lot of Tier X.  It's because Wargaming's MM thinks I'm some sort of WoT God and can win against hordes of purple players with only blood red players on my team.  Few people can feel your pain as much as I do.  I would simply like to be compensated for my time and effort if I'm being saddled with unwinnable games due to my team's composition.  It's such a waste of my time, credits and energy.  I've been dealing with it without comment, but when I load into game and see the 39% Maus sitting AFK in our base on Westfield for the first 3 min of battle, I can get a little salty.



_big_bad #19 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 22:48

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first I am not a great player but in the mm set up I find it hard to bring my stats up. I played 8 battles yesterday 2 tier 8 games which both was tier 10 battles. Play 6 tier 6 battles and all was tier 8 games. All the battles but one was over in 6 mins or less. when you are trying to play smart but within a minute it is a 2 or 3 on one with tanks 1 or 2 tiers higher than you how do you bring the damage or stats up. oh yeah I jump down and played a tier 1 and got put into a tier 2 game then quit. I glad that WG is making so much money but I hate that now everytime I log in they are putting out a new OP tank. I wish they would come out with a version of this game with no prems no prem ammo and they just charged a monthly fee for it I would me in. Then skills would matter not the guy that bought the prem runs food and buys skill with a 900+ camo rating or armor like the king tiger in a tier 5 game. it isn't skill when they just run over everyone

JunkaTheAdmirable #20 Posted Jul 09 2019 - 22:56

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View PostThe_Illusive_Man, on Jul 09 2019 - 21:17, said:

MAJOR problem with this:

Bad players already lose alot of credits in T8+. So, how will this fix the issue?

 

Better solution:

 

Add a requirement to research T9+ tanks such as Average DPG. Would not be something that you can just bypass in another tank. You would need to get a DPG in the tank before it. Only thing that could possibly fix this.

 

This has the effect of also not making it look like a penalty, and also to make these players better

 

Completing the missions to upgrade doesnt stop them from cycling through games rapidly for x2/x4/x5s. You have to think from the perspective of a trash player who has no pride or ambition.

 

Lets say there is a x5 weekend and a baddie plays 15 games in an hour, averaging 4 mins per game. Out of that, lets say he wins 6 games. In his miniscule pubby mind, averaging 200 base xp per win = 6000 xp total in an hour of quick games (not including the effect of personal reserves) is a great yield, cause he doesnt do well anyway.

 

Meanwhile, because he is running all standard ammo and consumables, he only has to pay those trivial resupply costs plus the repair bill of like 50k credits or so. There is a good chance he will even break even on alot of games.

 

He doesnt care about the effect on his DPG/WN8, because he has no desire to join a decent clan that wins by "hacking." The fact there is no substantial fiscal penalty for poor performance means there is no mandatory incentive to improve.

 

As a result, the top tier playerbase continues to decline in quality as there is little or no effective market pressure to improve. It results in 15k HP blowouts and stuff like LATAM padding and mission rigging, which is all part of the notorious reputation NA pubs has.


Edited by JunkaTheAdmirable, Jul 09 2019 - 23:00.





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