Jump to content


Incoming in 1.6 - Disabled Team Damage

friendly fire tk td team damage 1.6 update update 1.6

  • Please log in to reply
123 replies to this topic

stalkervision #101 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 09:37

    Major

  • Players
  • 72803 battles
  • 9,860
  • Member since:
    11-12-2013

View PostCynicalDutchie, on Jul 11 2019 - 17:03, said:

 

Except you don't. I tested it as you can read in this topic: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/608056-arty-will-get-punished-for-stunning-friendlies/ and it is quite clear that neither Minsk nor the automated system cares about you griefing on friendlies with arty. It doesn't care currently either, arty can pretty much get away with anything.

I wish this was true. Maybe they don't care but most arty players actually do. A good arty player will try as hard as he can not to hurt his own teammates. This often results in a lost game when a arty player hold his fire in fear of affecting his own teammate in a one on one fight and then his teammate is destroyed by a better player who then "griefs" the rest of his teammates !



anonym_lwuYMDlrDBrA #102 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 12:54

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 0 battles
  • 36
  • Member since:
    01-27-2020

On a positive note it means more credits when in of 100 games I maybe hit someone once. I don't care either way I just think it is a weird move at this stage in the games life. This is really the only game I play consistently but honestly if this change goes through I am nervous about the future. Just my two cents and does not really change anything. 

 



madogthefirst #103 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 14:39

    Major

  • Players
  • 25632 battles
  • 9,526
  • [GFLC] GFLC
  • Member since:
    12-28-2011

View PostMojo_Riesing, on Jul 10 2019 - 11:05, said:

This is a good thing overall.  Like anything else in WoTT it may need and may even receive additional "tuning" down the road.  It prevents accidental damage and should help to reduce 1) toxicity and 2) WG having to constantly deal with aggrieved players.

 

Some won't like it of course and we'll read some of that there but i suspect the majority of the player base will welcome this.

Majority of players are idiot that can't even figure out not to shoot teammates unless there is a mod blocking it so of course they are going to love it.



Goat_Rodeo #104 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 14:47

    Captain

  • -Players-
  • 16366 battles
  • 1,789
  • [DHO4] DHO4
  • Member since:
    06-26-2014
Get ready for a festival of blocking, flipping, and shoving into enemy fire, unlike you’ve ever seen before. Before trolls could only shoot you maybe twice before a ban, more if they were platooned. Now they can grief you for 15 minutes solid with zero repercussions until you spend the 15 minutes creating a ticket. Hope I’m completely wrong about this.  

Cowcat137 #105 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 15:34

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 15328 battles
  • 7,408
  • [HHOUR] HHOUR
  • Member since:
    08-17-2015

View PostGoat_Rodeo, on Jul 12 2019 - 14:47, said:

Get ready for a festival of blocking, flipping, and shoving into enemy fire, unlike you’ve ever seen before. Before trolls could only shoot you maybe twice before a ban, more if they were platooned. Now they can grief you for 15 minutes solid with zero repercussions until you spend the 15 minutes creating a ticket. Hope I’m completely wrong about this.  


"The Law of Unintended Consequences" is the one that always passes.



dnaman #106 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 16:51

    Major

  • Players
  • 33332 battles
  • 2,003
  • [CRZY] CRZY
  • Member since:
    06-09-2013
Honestly this is a bad idea. Had a guy in Frontlines that had pinned a teammate to a wall and wouldn’t let him move.  No one could shoot the guy.  I managed to push him off the teammate that then ran off.  So because I spoiled his fun, he turns on me and managed to get me flipped on my side unable to move.  I couldn’t fire back, nor could anyone else.  I had to abandon my tank to be able to play again.  This type of griefing is going to be much more common with team damage turned off now.   Do you really want all those additional tickets and will you actually do anything about them?  Sorry, but I don’t see this helping at all.

Mikosah #107 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 17:29

    Major

  • Players
  • 17582 battles
  • 4,585
  • Member since:
    01-24-2013

View Postdnaman, on Jul 12 2019 - 09:51, said:

Honestly this is a bad idea. Had a guy in Frontlines that had pinned a teammate to a wall and wouldn’t let him move.  No one could shoot the guy.  I managed to push him off the teammate that then ran off.  So because I spoiled his fun, he turns on me and managed to get me flipped on my side unable to move.  I couldn’t fire back, nor could anyone else.  I had to abandon my tank to be able to play again.  This type of griefing is going to be much more common with team damage turned off now.   Do you really want all those additional tickets and will you actually do anything about them?  Sorry, but I don’t see this helping at all.

 

If you had been able to damage him and got yourself auto-banned, would that have been better?



MajorRenegade #108 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 17:36

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 30410 battles
  • 9,029
  • Member since:
    11-18-2010

View PostDomoSapien, on Jul 11 2019 - 16:24, said:

So I've received some additional information that I'd like to share:

All the remaining conditions for blue status will apply, other than team damage since that will no longer be a factor. It will still be possible to turn blue via stuns, overturning allies resulting in their subsequent destruction, drowning allies, pushing allies off of cliffs resulting in their damage or destruction, and crushing allies.

If you choose to drive around in a normal vehicle and harmlessly plink off of your allies, in theory you should not turn blue. However, doing so is considered passive play and may result in sanctions if reported via battle replay.

As I anticipated this topic has generated a substantial amount of feedback, which will be compiled and forwarded to the dev team.

 

we both know that you guys never look at replays and always come up with the same bs reply telling us that the we have a ingame system for that. But now that going away(mostly), i bet you will still not look at them



omi5cron #109 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 18:16

    Major

  • Players
  • 25110 battles
  • 5,519
  • Member since:
    04-01-2013

i dont understand why so many seem to think non-shooting trolling will become "rampant". i just dont think that MORE players will troll than there used to be. the same trollers may still do their thing (just in a different manner) ,but im not expecting an explosion in overall numbers of trollers.

 

and for the "immersion" purists,no one is FORCING you to shoot any more carelessly. and those,like me,who may "spray and pray" will still do so.your "immersive" experience can stay the same,my "pew-pew" can stay the same (but cheaper)

 

i will still use SafeShot to prevent spending shell-credits anyways.this WG thing still allows wasteful shooting at friendlies....SafeShot PREVENTS losing those creds on friendly-fire shots.

 



ArmyGSX #110 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 21:26

    Private

  • -Players-
  • 6536 battles
  • 2
  • Member since:
    06-03-2012

I understand team killing and the problem (as rare as it is) with it. But to eliminate team damage outright is not the way to fix the issue. 

I think a better solution would be a radius check on friendly tanks. If no enemy tanks are within, say 25m, you can not damage your own team. But, if you are within that 25m radius its fair game. 

Doing so would eliminate team killers shooting arty (or anyone) at the start of a match and also eliminate someone crossing in front of a sniping TD while in zoom.

It would, however, cause those same sniping tanks using caution when the enemy is engaged with an ally as is. Furthermore, it would also make Arty still have to be cautious when raining down on tanks that are fighting allies per the current state of the game. 

 

As a TD player I have to be cautious of my shots to not hit an ally. This is part of the game and also part of the real world. iI fully understand that WoT is not a simulator game, but taking team damage out of the game also removes skill from players that work hard on not taking risky shots when ally tanks are in the way. 



madogthefirst #111 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 21:50

    Major

  • Players
  • 25632 battles
  • 9,526
  • [GFLC] GFLC
  • Member since:
    12-28-2011

View PostArmyGSX, on Jul 12 2019 - 12:26, said:

I understand team killing and the problem (as rare as it is) with it. But to eliminate team damage outright is not the way to fix the issue. 

I think a better solution would be a radius check on friendly tanks. If no enemy tanks are within, say 25m, you can not damage your own team. But, if you are within that 25m radius its fair game. 

Doing so would eliminate team killers shooting arty (or anyone) at the start of a match and also eliminate someone crossing in front of a sniping TD while in zoom.

It would, however, cause those same sniping tanks using caution when the enemy is engaged with an ally as is. Furthermore, it would also make Arty still have to be cautious when raining down on tanks that are fighting allies per the current state of the game. 

 

As a TD player I have to be cautious of my shots to not hit an ally. This is part of the game and also part of the real world. iI fully understand that WoT is not a simulator game, but taking team damage out of the game also removes skill from players that work hard on not taking risky shots when ally tanks are in the way. 

Typical game combat range is 200-500. An enemy will rarely ever be in proxy range let alone 25m.



Mojo_Riesing #112 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 22:00

    Captain

  • Players
  • 20866 battles
  • 1,844
  • [ACATS] ACATS
  • Member since:
    11-26-2011

View PostArmyGSX, on Jul 12 2019 - 12:26, said:

I understand team killing and the problem (as rare as it is) with it. But to eliminate team damage outright is not the way to fix the issue. 

I think a better solution would be a radius check on friendly tanks. If no enemy tanks are within, say 25m, you can not damage your own team. But, if you are within that 25m radius its fair game. 

Doing so would eliminate team killers shooting arty (or anyone) at the start of a match and also eliminate someone crossing in front of a sniping TD while in zoom.

It would, however, cause those same sniping tanks using caution when the enemy is engaged with an ally as is. Furthermore, it would also make Arty still have to be cautious when raining down on tanks that are fighting allies per the current state of the game. 

 

As a TD player I have to be cautious of my shots to not hit an ally. This is part of the game and also part of the real world. iI fully understand that WoT is not a simulator game, but taking team damage out of the game also removes skill from players that work hard on not taking risky shots when ally tanks are in the way. 

 

I  agree Team Killing is kind of rare.  Deliberate wounding of fellow players maybe a bit more common. Accidentally (for whatever reason) shooting a team mate is probably most common.  While i don't think that removing Team Damage "harms" anyone, i do get the argument that only those who violate the rules should get punished.  The problem here is that there seems to be little confidence in automated systems and a general believe that WG does not/will not review reports and/or replays by human inspection.  So, what's to do?  I think a human system would probably be nixed by WG over cost, they'd prefer no damage/no review or...an automated system. 

 

So, if it's going to be automated i'd further guess any system needs to be 1) Process Transparent and 2)Have penalties to the transgressor sufficient to impress them to "not do  that again".  So, heres i think easy solutionj without complicated formulas which include all vehicles including SPGs and damage caused by ANY reason:

  1. Team Damage 0 HP to 1pt less than Full HP= Payment to the team member shot x2 the value of damage paid in BOTH cost of repairs and XP earned FOR THAT BATTLE by the shooter up to 100% of whatever they would have earned including any credits, gold, bonds, blueprints.  All of it.  If the player has insufficient earning FROM THAT BATTLE...it comes out of whatever they have on the books. If they are broke a temporary ban of days starting with 1 day for 1st offense, 2 for 2nd and so on up to 1 week FOR ALL GAME MODES.
  2. Team Killing of any HP Value:  If the TK is judged by human review to be accidental, penalties as provided for in #1 above.  If the TK is judged deliberate in addition to all the penalties listed in #1 above, that player forfeits the tank used to commit the Team Kill for 1 Month. No Exceptions. Player cannot re-purchase the tank during the "cool-down" period.

How's that work for you?  


Edited by Mojo_Riesing, Jul 12 2019 - 22:03.


ArmyGSX #113 Posted Jul 12 2019 - 22:06

    Private

  • -Players-
  • 6536 battles
  • 2
  • Member since:
    06-03-2012

View Postmadogthefirst, on Jul 12 2019 - 21:50, said:

Typical game combat range is 200-500. An enemy will rarely ever be in proxy range let alone 25m.

Thats my point.

Typically, same team damage that results from accidents happens to team members when they are close to the enemy.  like when heavies are fighting with one another, or a light/med tank circle strafing a tank.  

This would keep the team damage in those instances, but eliminate the change of team damage outside of those events.

My understanding of WG wanting to eliminate team damage is to stop some accidental damage but most importantly, to eliminate players who want to grief other players. This would solve those issues while still keeping combat in line with how  it is in the current state of the game. 



rogombor #114 Posted Jul 13 2019 - 04:15

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 26125 battles
  • 492
  • [NBL] NBL
  • Member since:
    05-29-2013

View Postgunz222, on Jul 10 2019 - 16:11, said:

Not sure I'm a huge fan of this, but testing will reveal how it plays out. Currently, the need to be careful with your shots and your movements around teammates adds the need to have at least a little situational awareness. Additionally, I would think that this would actually increase griefing via teammates blocking shots/pushing people on purpose without punishment. 

 

-gunz 

 

This. It isn't a major problem in frontlines but with missions rewarding damage and kills and being a limited amount of targets I'm afraid blocking allies to protect enemies will become a thing. That is without even considering griefing. Griefers will have a field day picking tanks with expensive ammo (specially ones that are likely to shoot premium like the HESH-shooting British TDs) and block them for fun.

 

View Post__WarChild__, on Jul 10 2019 - 16:53, said:

I do not see the removal of team damage as a good thing.  Maybe it's just me.  I hope I'm wrong.

 

Me neither Warchild, me neither.

 

EDIT:

View PostSawUcomin, on Jul 10 2019 - 17:09, said:

Once again another game changing update without prior input from the player base!

This will lead to driving in front of any player that is ready to shoot so they may take the kill advantage and at the same time costing their allied player the price of shells.

Arty players will just shoot into the cluster as it will now have minimal consequences!

How inept in forthought is this decision!


I hadn't seen your post because I'm just reading the thread now but it mirrors my sentiment perfectly.



Saint_Metagross #115 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 02:55

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 27246 battles
  • 798
  • [0CLAN] 0CLAN
  • Member since:
    06-21-2011

View Postem_kay, on Jul 11 2019 - 01:47, said:

This is only ok if shooting at allies repeatedly turns them blue anyway. If that's not the case, this is a terrible idea.
Instead of solving the problem they're setting out to address, they will at a minimum create this new one: frustrated players who ping spam the map to make demands will start shooting their allies instead because it doesn't damage them, thereby revealing their positions, and distracting people in a way that can't just be prevented with 'block for this battle'... - in other words a whole new negative domino effect on the battle.

In any case having to be mindful of teammates' positioning and movement so you don't damage them both teaches and reinforces (along with other aspects) the kind of situational awareness necessary for better strategic thinking in general. The ever present potential to damage friendlies and making sure that doesn't happen is way more important to a player's growth than avoiding the occasional griefing incident.

Based solely on the information in the video, it's a terrible idea designed to make the game easier for terrible players, and it is guaranteed to make them even more terrible by actively reducing the amount of thinking they have to do.

 

It also puts way more emphasis on the more arcade-y/cartoonish aspects of the game in general... gah.

 

[I haven't read the 4 pages of replies to this yet; apologies if all that has already been said.]

 

Unless the video was lying, that is the case.



SkaarjMaster #116 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 20:58

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 4924 battles
  • 794
  • Member since:
    09-28-2012

When is 1.6 supposed to drop?

 



cloudwalkr #117 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 22:26

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 56722 battles
  • 6,428
  • Member since:
    04-05-2011
Really disagree with leaving friendly arty stunn.  Incredibly stupid idea in my opinion.

SteamEngine #118 Posted Jul 15 2019 - 19:02

    Private

  • Players
  • 11955 battles
  • 6
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

When I was playing I rarely see friendly fire so adding this function will just add other ways to use it like what other people mentioned in this forum.

I played BF too (which has friendly fire off) and you see all ways to use team fire to its advantage, so despite the good intention I think this change will do more damage then it was meant to. 



Whane #119 Posted Jul 16 2019 - 17:20

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 7987 battles
  • 26
  • Member since:
    06-11-2011

Shooting allies is just one way to express "negative emotions" and it will not prevent people from being toxic. With team damage removed players might even feel more free to "express" themselves and like all toxic behavior, this will still increase that toxic flow and it will spread, perhaps even moreso now. And players will still push and block team-mates and this gets reported far less than shooting, not that reporting matters in the long run when punishments are such short term and encourage continued toxic behavior knowing that the penalties are so low.

 

The problem here is that for YEARS you've permitted this increase in toxicity through inaction and so you're resorting to this extreme action - changing the game for everyone instead of getting rid of players that are consistently and intentionally being toxic and disrupting the game. Every time I take a break from this game and then return, I see far more toxic people than previously and this is certainly a contributing factor in my longevity here (or lack thereof) not that you would care about an individual though - that's why you want systems that manage themselves right? ;-)

 

Toxic people will remain toxic and it's naive to think that a slap on the wrist was ever the answer. Likewise changing the game wont solve the toxicity problem either because you don't have the ability to practice the complexities of behavior modification within this game. When you're serious about stopping the toxic flow and thus respect players that just want to play a video game and have fun (gasp) then you will adopt a zero tolerance perma-ban policy for intentional team damage of any kind AND make it public because why hide this when their actions in-game are public and all over youtube anyway? 

 

I gave up reporting players when it became obvious that any effort put into it was a waste of time when the same player is doing the same thing the next day. Every change you make offers a new way to express toxicity. Instead, get rid of the problem players and then you can have the game you want with physics intact.

 

I'm glad you're finally looking at the toxicity issue in WOT but you're not going to fix toxic players by removing game features. If only you had put as much effort into getting rid of the toxic players as you have with the RNG promotional video series...

 

Edit: btw your link to this topic is broken (leads to another thread) on both the WOT launcher and the portal page. I guess that helps keep the discussion to a minimum.


Edited by Whane, Jul 16 2019 - 17:49.


StoneTitan #120 Posted Jul 16 2019 - 19:13

    Captain

  • Players
  • 4148 battles
  • 1,045
  • Member since:
    02-24-2013

View PostSkaarjMaster, on Jul 14 2019 - 14:58, said:

When is 1.6 supposed to drop?

 

 

Happening estimate?:confused:






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users