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Proposed team damage changes aimed to curb toxicity actually a renaissance in artillery trolling?


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grandthefttankV #21 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 17:22

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View PostUvBeenTrumped, on Jul 14 2019 - 16:18, said:

If you could read and look past your giant ego then you would have seen that I said, " even though they are over matched". So no it isn't arty's fault if a player is too dumb to move away. And what if that is the only target that is lit to do damage to? What now Mr. Smart Guy? 

Bottom line, if I am playing arty and I have to keep marking a target that you wont move away from then prepare to get stunned and possible damage taken from you. 

 

Science has proven that tanks struck by arty are always 100% at fault. Always.



MS06JZaku2 #22 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 17:23

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Jul 14 2019 - 13:30, said:


Where do you read that this is all about arty and nothing else?  Please share your information as you are wrong.  This change has more to do with the trolls who drive tanks and tank destroyers more than anything.  Far more team damage and killing is caused by those than arty and we know it.  Arty is just more memorable it's everybody's favorite berry to pick. 

 

You're right. Artillery is not the main focus of the change. I'm just opening conversation about this aspect of it. I'll leave the other aspects of it to other posters. I just didn't see anyone discussing this one, namely the potential of future arty to grief allies with impunity. I think the the fact that WG featured the barrel trick in their video does indicate that are devoting a lot of thought to it.



MS06JZaku2 #23 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 17:29

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View PostgrandthefttankV, on Jul 14 2019 - 16:05, said:

Yep. The removal of team damage will
Undoubtedly cause a surge in griefing in other forms.

I agree with this. There will still be high horsepower tanks that can push allies into incoming fire. In fact a lot of instances of team damage I've seen are people team damaging in response to getting pushed out.

 

I would be interested in seeing the statistics on how team damage has apparently increased to the point where WG think these changes are appropriate. They removed all-chat, a former popular way to vent frustrations. I wonder how much removing ways of interacting with other players is actually just focus all the negative emotions into more destructive outlets.



WhineMaker #24 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 17:30

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Yeah!!!!

 

Arty stealing kills will be a new topic for the anti arty whine club... :ohmy:

 

 

Yeah!!!

I can make my teammates look absolutely STUNNING, so they have a better chance at attracting the red team... :girl:

 

 

Yeah!!!

 

No team damage is gonna be so much FUNSIES, I'm getting all hot and bothered, in anticipation... :great:

 

 

Yeah!!!

 

Bring it on WG... :P



MS06JZaku2 #25 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 17:34

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View PostLeaveIT2Beaver, on Jul 14 2019 - 16:03, said:

When I play arty for missions, I try to be an asset for the win. My 7 rules;

  1. I will call out treefall or building damage that is relevant
  2. I let players know  where I am looking so they know where I am on the map
  3. If a player is in trouble on the map, I hit the map with my marker and tell them I am watching. 
    • I will try to hit the red tank and track it if I can if they want me to do so. But they have to FALL BACK a bit
  4. I can see red tanks that they can't (over buildings and around corners) and tell others what the red tanks are doing
  5. If a green tank is calling SOS over and over in a face hug, yes, I will TRY to hit behind the red tank to help. I am not trying to "kill steal". Chances of the green tank getting stunned is 100%
  6. I will answer calls for fire on the map
  7. I refuse to try to kill steal. Arty does not pay enough credits for it and it just causes rage

 

That seems like a very well crafted code of conduct. I tend to imagine artillery players as primarily trolls trying to elicit rage pms from others. I've certainly run into those types. It's refreshing to see that's not literally every arty player. 



MS06JZaku2 #26 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 17:50

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Jul 14 2019 - 13:57, said:

 

This rarely happens to me but I've started looking at the offender every time it does and, albeit in my very limited sample, I've noticed a pattern. Every time it's happened to me since I've started paying attention it has been a green or better player with well under 10% of their games played in arty. So-called "arty players" get grief for every infraction committed by arty but now I can't help but wonder if most of that ill will is directed at the wrong people.

 

If you hate arty and only play it because you feel that you're "forced" to, for whatever reason, then you're going to care a lot less about "unintentional" team damage. You may even see it as a bonus if you can get one more person pissed at "arty players" and the class in general.

That's a good point I hadn't fully considered. There is indeed a distinction between those who primarily play arty and those who just dabble for whichever reason. It's certainly an unfair feedback loop where the behavior of those who don't necessarily represent the genuine article of an artillery specialist nevertheless contribute to the public perception of the vehicle class as a whole. I do still tend to think however that accurate indirect fire mechanics remain inherently problematic to balance and that on the individual level it's better not to exploit such mechanics for one's amusement. Then again, I tend to lapse on this principle and hop in mine every once and a while. It's just too cathartic sometimes to pin a dude behind his rock all game and make him feel just as helpless as i do sometimes.



Savage__Apples #27 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 17:53

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Arty tipping will become a new sport at the start of a battle. 

grandthefttankV #28 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 18:05

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View PostMS06JZaku2, on Jul 14 2019 - 16:29, said:

I agree with this. There will still be high horsepower tanks that can push allies into incoming fire. In fact a lot of instances of team damage I've seen are people team damaging in response to getting pushed out.

 

I would be interested in seeing the statistics on how team damage has apparently increased to the point where WG think these changes are appropriate. They removed all-chat, a former popular way to vent frustrations. I wonder how much removing ways of interacting with other players is actually just focus all the negative emotions into more destructive outlets.

 

They will just keep banning features until this game essentially becomes a single player game



FrozenKemp #29 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 18:15

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They should introduce a credit penalty for stunning allies.

 

I dabble in artillery but I always try to help the tip of our "offensive spear" while not hitting allies.



cloudwalkr #30 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 18:25

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The guys in here talking about "well...well...welllllll tanks shouldn't face hug other tanks"  If you cant find another target to shoot at so that you don't screw over the guy trying to save his skin then you're a pile of trash.  There are RARE occasions where it is completely useless to facehug but most of the people I see commenting here arguing that facehugging tanks is the problem and it's not them, it's the other guy who is at fault...are all objectively bad players.  

 

A good portion of you can go to hell.

 

I especially love the dude who thinks just because he marks a target that the friendly who is face hugging can just simply back away. 



cloudwalkr #31 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 18:54

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View Postcavalry11, on Jul 14 2019 - 15:55, said:

No face hugging is stupid and a good way to get killed duh. I will usually mark a target once if our team idiot wont move away then I fire he was warned.

 

You really feel comfortable calling someone else an idiot, eh?

 

45%er that has worse grammar than 3rd graders wants to call others an idiot.  Pretty typical.



WhineMaker #32 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 20:02

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View PostSavage__Apples, on Jul 14 2019 - 08:53, said:

Arty tipping will become a new sport at the start of a battle. 

 

...and physics abuse support tickets will continue to be submitted... ;)



grandthefttankV #33 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 20:13

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View Postcloudwalkr, on Jul 14 2019 - 17:25, said:

The guys in here talking about "well...well...welllllll tanks shouldn't face hug other tanks"  If you cant find another target to shoot at so that you don't screw over the guy trying to save his skin then you're a pile of trash.  There are RARE occasions where it is completely useless to facehug but most of the people I see commenting here arguing that facehugging tanks is the problem and it's not them, it's the other guy who is at fault...are all objectively bad players.  

 

A good portion of you can go to hell.

 

I especially love the dude who thinks just because he marks a target that the friendly who is face hugging can just simply back away. 

 

Tell us how you really feel.



Flarvin #34 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 20:18

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View PostWhineMaker, on Jul 14 2019 - 14:02, said:

...and physics abuse support tickets will continue to be submitted... ;)

 

And will continue to be ignored... lol



grandthefttankV #35 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 20:21

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View PostFlarvin, on Jul 14 2019 - 19:18, said:

 

And will continue to be ignored... lol

 

Thus leading people to continue taking the law into their own hands. By pushing, shoving and blocking teammates. 



the_dude_76 #36 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 21:30

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View Postcavalry11, on Jul 14 2019 - 08:55, said:

No face hugging is stupid and a good way to get killed duh. I will usually mark a target once if our team idiot wont move away then I fire he was warned.

 

And what if he can't?? What if it's the enemy tank that keeps pushing into the friendly?

View PostgrandthefttankV, on Jul 14 2019 - 10:17, said:

 

Face hugging is a great way to expose your weak spots and cupola to the enemy at a range where they cant possibly miss.

 

You think they're going to have more trouble hitting your lower plate after you've backed up 15 feet??

 

View PostUvBeenTrumped, on Jul 14 2019 - 10:18, said:

If you could read and look past your giant ego then you would have seen that I said, " even though they are over matched". So no it isn't arty's fault if a player is too dumb to move away. And what if that is the only target that is lit to do damage to? What now Mr. Smart Guy? 

 

 

I saw it I simply understand that it's irrelevant. If they're over matched they should just give up?? Let the enemy tank have an easy shot so you can get your shot?? You're joking right?? Do you also do this when you play other classes or is it only in arty that you become the most important person in the battle?? Seriously, if you're in a TD and an ally is blocking most of your shot do you just take it anyway??

 

Block Quote

 And what if that is the only target that is lit to do damage to? What now Mr. Smart Guy? 

 

You wait for a clear shot just like every other player in every other class of tank has to do...Duh

 

Block Quote

 Bottom line, if I am playing arty and I have to keep marking a target that you wont move away from then prepare to get stunned and possible damage taken from you. 

 

Which makes you, well let's just say "a certain sort of person" so I don't get another forum strike. I'm sure that by now you know what sort of a person you are...

 



ExploratorOne #37 Posted Jul 14 2019 - 23:23

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In the video, they said that SPGs would still do friendly stun damage and be penalized for it.  Also, the article says:

 

"Despite friendly fire/damage being disabled, it’s still possible for SPGs and other vehicles to be branded as “team-killers.” A player who receives this status will lose their protection from friendly fire and can take damage from both allies’ shots and ramming."

 

The trick is that the hit is registered, but no damage is counted.  I have a feeling that the years of monitoring team damage have let them get to the point where the system can still track it even when it is not applied to a vehicle.  Based on their comments, they probably have set a threshold where you will still turn blue.



Daemonwolfe9999 #38 Posted Jul 15 2019 - 00:23

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Oh for the love of god.  Yes team damage is being removed, However, it's still possible to be flagged as a TK(turn blue). From the looks of it, the calculations will be changed, making it easier for arty to turn, at least over other tank classes. I haven't gone to the test server but guessing hits still count and accumulate. With arty, stun mechanics still work with the possibility of crew/module damage.  The fact that nearly everyone is going ballistic over this before the changes have been implemented is crazy.

 

Pleae grow up a little and wait for the changes to actually happen before going off the deep end. Getting worked up isn't helping anyone's stress levels.



CptSkyhawk #39 Posted Jul 15 2019 - 00:43

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View Postcavalry11, on Jul 14 2019 - 15:55, said:

No face hugging is stupid and a good way to get killed duh. I will usually mark a target once if our team idiot wont move away then I fire he was warned.

 

While I would assume that you know every single possible way to get killed, considering your illustrious stats, it's also quite possible that facehugging is a good way to get killed only if you are worse at the game than my 14 year old black lab.  And I'd be hard-pressed to determine who drools on the keyboard more:  The 45%er or the dog...



Savage__Apples #40 Posted Jul 15 2019 - 01:31

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View PostWhineMaker, on Jul 14 2019 - 11:02, said:

 

...and physics abuse support tickets will continue to be submitted... ;)

 

Hey if WG thinks its ok for arty to stun and hamstring their own teammates then their teammates should be allowed to tip them over.  It will not kill them but it will prevent them from stunning friendly vehicles.






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