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Spotting and being spotted

Spotting

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Guano458 #1 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 16:21

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Confused when it comes to spotting and being spotted. First, I find that the enemy can, a lot of the time see me when I can't see them and they don't paint on the mini map. I am using a T67 with a camo net, but it seems like I have a huge sign over me that says "He's right here". In addition they can sneak up on me till they are very close and they don't paint and I don't see them.  Second, I've read that when standard battles are set up that one side has a slight edge over the other.  I was wondering how you can get on the "good" team once in a while.  I get mostly of defeats, seldom get a victory, but when I get a victory the team is a lot better than normal. How does that work?

 

Thanks



UvBeenTrumped #2 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 16:28

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It is all positioning. While in you T67 are you sitting in the bush and firing? That is a big no-no. If you are firing while sitting in a bush you will get spotted. You want to sit 5m behind the bush while firing or get double bushed. It also has to do with your crew skills. How many skills and what are they? 

I have a lot of games and I am still shocked on why or how things happen. 

Don't get too discouraged. Watch some videos on youtube. They will help a lot. Even look up videos on the T67 and how to play it. 

Good luck and don't get too frustrated. It only makes the game no fun.



Ortinoth_ #3 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 16:38

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMF82fz4kDk

Pipinghot #4 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 16:38

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The short version is that being spotted is a competition, they make a spot check by use their "view range" to compete with your camouflage value. Your camouflage value goes up and down constantly, depending on what you're doing, which means that anything you do might get you spotted. The spotting system is very well designed, but it can be a little difficult to understand at first. Once you really understand the spotting mechanics it should all make sense and the game will become more fun.

 

The highest camo value you can have is when you're sitting still, your camo net is active, and you haven't fired your gun. Of course, avoiding firing your gun doesn't make much sense in a tank destroyer, so of course you're going to have to shoot at some point. And of course you have to move some times, so you can't depend on your max camo all the time.

 

WIth your number of battles, just over 1250, this is a good time for you to start reading the Battle Mechanics page on the wiki, and maybe looking up some videos to get a more in depth understanding of how the game works. Obviously you're not going to learn everything in a few days, you have to read and watch things a little bit at a time so you can start to absorb the information you'll need to start improving.

 

For your specific question, this section of the wiki will help you understand the spotting system better.

https://wiki.wargami...nics#Visibility

 



ChaseR392 #5 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 17:03

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View PostGuano458, on Aug 04 2019 - 16:21, said:

  Second, I've read that when standard battles are set up that one side has a slight edge over the other.  

 

Ok... for starters... what you have been reading is pure garbage by a vocal minority on this forum who refuse to take responsibility for their own performance. Run with that crowd and you can pretty much forget about ever getting any better.

 

Now with that out of the way lets address getting spotted in your T67.

 

A camo net is a good start... but it is only part of the equation. All tanks in the game have visual range and a camo rating.

 

Lets say your tank has visual range of 400 meters and a camo rating of 25%. This means your tank would spot an enemy tank at 400 meters if the enemy tank had a camo rating of 0, but the enemy tank (assuming it also had a view range of 400), would not spot you (if you are stationary and don't fire) until 300 meters.

 

That is a bit of simplification but hopefully makes sense. To be effective in a TD you need to maximize both your VR and your camo. To really squeeze the most out of a most TDs, you need a net, binocs, a crew trained with the camo and vision skills, camo paint, etc.

 

As I said, a camo net is a good start, but keep in mind it only works after you've been stationary for several seconds. If you are not running binocs or optics it is largely irrelevant because an enemy with good VR is going to spot you the instant you fire. If your crew is less than 100%... you are going to suffer even more because your VR will be even worse.

 

Which brings me to firing... if you expand the concealment tab on your garage page you will see that your tank has a camo percentage for stationary/after firing and on the move/after firing. Notice how much your camo rating drops after you fire. Unless you are 15m behind a bush (you can only see the enemy tank as a red outline) or you are outside of their spotting range... you will likely be spotted when you fire.

 

If your tank is deficient in both VR and camo... it is best to try and engage tanks in the "sweet spot" between the max VR of 445m and the max render range on map (the yellow circle on your minimap). Although this requires someone else to spot for you.... unless their is an unspotted enemy tank closer to you... you can fire without being spotted.



Ndtm #6 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 17:58

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View PostUvBeenTrumped, on Aug 04 2019 - 16:28, said:

You want to sit 5m behind the bush while firing or get double bushed.

15* + "to where the bush or tree is opaque"



dunniteowl #7 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 18:14

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View PostGuano458, on Aug 04 2019 - 09:21, said:

Confused when it comes to spotting and being spotted. First, I find that the enemy can, a lot of the time see me when I can't see them and they don't paint on the mini map. I am using a T67 with a camo net, but it seems like I have a huge sign over me that says "He's right here". In addition they can sneak up on me till they are very close and they don't paint and I don't see them.  Second, I've read that when standard battles are set up that one side has a slight edge over the other.  I was wondering how you can get on the "good" team once in a while.  I get mostly of defeats, seldom get a victory, but when I get a victory the team is a lot better than normal. How does that work?

 

Thanks

 

 

The WoT Welcome Package (version 1)

 

Read through that.  It will help if you take the time to learn.  I promise.  It helped me before I put it together in a package for others.  Plus, this will reduce your search time for relevant, clear and easy to understand beginner level information.  Can't go wrong knowing this stuff.

 

Without looking at more than a quick glance, you are probably doing just about everything wrong, gauging from your current statistical situation.

 

In the WWP above, there is a section from the Global Wiki for Crew.  Take the time to read through that and ask more questions (this stuff is probably the single most complicated part of WoT -- Crew and how they affect play).  In many cases, folks like to call this World of Tank Crews.

 

Operating a tank with a less than 100% qualified crew is notable.  NEVER and I mean NEVER EVER EVER start with a 50% crew!  Don't do it!  Just no.  Pay that 20K credits per crew member and at least Start them at 75%.  That's like a crew and a half better than a 50% crew.  At 20K a pop, that's a helluva deal.  It also shortens your grind time to bring them up to 100% which is WHEN and ONLY THEN can your crew start developing Crew Skills.

 

It's all about the crew, baby, not the ride.  Once it's researched, elited and fully moduled up, that tank, she ain't getting no betta, no mo.  So you gotta develops your crew.  This can only be done by spending TIME (and/or Gold) to do.  As I am a FTPP (Free To Play Pubbie) Gold is only spent in case of serious requirement (like the few crews I completely reset -- all that grinding time was worth saving from when I started them).  Other than that, it buys the occasional garage slot, demounts equipment now (I used to sell them with the tank to get half my credits back -- destroy module?  Are effing kidding me) and the occasional crew skill/tank reset moment when I realize just HOW LONG of a time that crew represents, though still desire to run them in a new tank.

 

 

The Battle Mechanics Section should be LINKED at Vision and Spotting (as I see it as being the single MOST IMPORTANT concept to grasp well in this game) though do be sure to ultimately make yourself familiar with the whole thing to some degree.  After Vision and Spotting, the next most important thing is sort of a tossup between: Armor & Penetration Mechanics  versus  Cover and Concealment.  I would personally attempt a bit of both as these two concepts are so mutually different from each other in practice, though exclusively entertwined as to make learning both at the same time sort of a necessity.  I would, however, work harder at NOT GETTING SHOT than I would at SHOOTING, because you're always going to get another chance to shoot if you can NOT GET SHOT.  In other words, the better you practice NOT GETTING SHOT, the more opportunity you are going to get on SHOOTING RED TANKS, which means you get both at once.

 

Beyond that, play smart, pay attention to the game on purpose, learn more about the game and you'll find you're doing better all of a sudden.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



UvBeenTrumped #8 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 18:32

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View PostNdtm, on Aug 04 2019 - 09:58, said:

15* + "to where the bush or tree is opaque"

Guess I should have proof read that one, but yes it is 15 not 5. 



MiddleAgedNoob #9 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 20:32

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Some time ago, I wrote a beginner's guide to vision mechanics, which might be of use to you.  It also addresses some common misconceptions about how vision mechanics work.  You can find it here: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/588377-a-beginner%E2%80%99s-guide-to-vision-mechanics/

 

GLHF


Edited by MiddleAgedNoob, Aug 04 2019 - 20:43.


RC_1140 #10 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 20:35

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If all of your crew members don't have 100% camo that will make a big difference. Some good links have been posted, be sure to look at them. Once you master spotting it can be fun to be the op invisi tank. 

cloudwalkr #11 Posted Aug 04 2019 - 21:41

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View PostGuano458, on Aug 04 2019 - 16:21, said:

Confused when it comes to spotting and being spotted. First, I find that the enemy can, a lot of the time see me when I can't see them and they don't paint on the mini map. I am using a T67 with a camo net, but it seems like I have a huge sign over me that says "He's right here". In addition they can sneak up on me till they are very close and they don't paint and I don't see them.  Second, I've read that when standard battles are set up that one side has a slight edge over the other.  I was wondering how you can get on the "good" team once in a while.  I get mostly of defeats, seldom get a victory, but when I get a victory the team is a lot better than normal. How does that work?

 

Thanks

 

hey bud, don't be to down about the spotting mechanic being an issue.  It's tough to learn and even tougher to master.

 

I have helped people in the past figure out how to use spotting and to better understand it.  Feel free to hit me up with a msg in game and when Im on we can jump into a room and work on figuring it out.  I try to meet with people on Tuesday evenings at 5pm central US time but pretty much if you see me on, feel free to send me a pm.

 

Edit:  One last thing that you really need to learn and 'own' now before you play to many more games is that if you want the "good" team then you must go be the "good" player on that team.  Never rely on WG or MM to give you a good team but better to rely on yourself to improve and learn the game to the point where you are the 'good' in that 'good' team.  Low tier matches are pretty chaotic so having a sustained win rate as a new player playing low tiers is incredibly hard...so don't focus so much on wins just yet but more so on personal improvement.  Then the wins will come and you will enjoy them more because it will be you winning the games.

 

Who or where did you read that one side is setup with an advantage over the other?


Edited by cloudwalkr, Aug 04 2019 - 21:47.


MrBeetleBumEntertainment #12 Posted Aug 05 2019 - 00:48

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View PostGuano458, on Aug 04 2019 - 16:21, said:

Confused when it comes to spotting and being spotted. First, I find that the enemy can, a lot of the time see me when I can't see them and they don't paint on the mini map. I am using a T67 with a camo net, but it seems like I have a huge sign over me that says "He's right here". In addition they can sneak up on me till they are very close and they don't paint and I don't see them.  Second, I've read that when standard battles are set up that one side has a slight edge over the other.  I was wondering how you can get on the "good" team once in a while.  I get mostly of defeats, seldom get a victory, but when I get a victory the team is a lot better than normal. How does that work?

 

Thanks

 

 

Im guessing your crew is not trained to 100% yet?

 

Once 100% there will be a huge change, much better at hiding etc. Then you want to work your TD crew with concealment on all the crew members. Another thing to remember is to have camo paint on your tank for all 3 seasons of maps so you can up your concealment numbers to their max. This is what makes it hard to be spotted by other tanks. The T67 has great view range so once your over 100% and trained up you should always see tanks moving in before they see you.

 

Also come check out my twitch streams and ask about staying hidden, I will show you how to shoot without getting spotted.  ( https://www.twitch.tv/mrbeetlebum  )

 

Cheers

 



Ikanator #13 Posted Aug 06 2019 - 07:38

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I should also note that while the T67 is a good TD, it's base view range is not as good as some of the other TDs. IIRC the T67 has a base view range of 350 meters. The Wolverine and most of the open topped American TDs have a base view range of 370 meters. Then you throw in bonuses for binoculars, a radio operator with situational awareness, a commander with recon, and a BIA crew that's using their consumable food and you can get a seriously impressive view range that can "burn through" camo at a surprising distance. 

 

Then couple that with them being in a TD that has a good base camo value, equipped with a  camo net, has the right camo paint and the entire crew 100% trained in concealment and they have an incredible advantage in the "spy vs spy" game of spotting and counter spotting. 

 

Hopefully that will have given you some idea of how to equip your TD and train your crew. You should also consider letting your team know when you're getting out spotted. Sometimes they can help.


Edited by Ikanator, Aug 06 2019 - 07:41.


snailcrusher #14 Posted Aug 06 2019 - 21:14

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Each Tank has it''s own base Camo and View Range.

Some Tanks have good ones, some don't.

You can improve these base figures by having: Camo on the Tank for each season (You only need the Hull done),  A Camo Net, Bincos, and Coated Optics.

To maximize your base figures your crew needs to be at 100% in their Major Qualifications and be fully trained in Camo, BIA, Recon, and Situational Awareness.  It is best to have all Crew Members trained in Camo and you need everyone trained in BIA for BIA to work.

If you have a closed top tank you can install Vents to improve their performance.  Vents do not add anything to an open top tank.

You can also add food to increase performance.

There are also Directives that increase performance.  Directives are consumables like food.  There are Directives for Camo and Optics.  The Directives have to work with the equipment. Example:  If you don't have a Camo Net, your Directive for Camo will be useless. 

You need to assume that everything you are doing to stay hidden, your enemy is also doing to see you.  And vice versa.

 

 







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