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MacDaddyMatty #41 Posted Yesterday, 01:27 PM


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Low tier (1-4) fix: 3 MM buckets

  • Bucket 1 = players with <4k games.
  • Bucket 2 = players with 5-10k games
  • Bucket 3 = players with >11k games.


This will make many games with less than 30 tanks on the field due to population, but also allow veterans to play some of the low tier reward tanks WG gives out with out feeling dirty. It will also cause culture shock for new players going into teir 5, as well as the seal-clubbers padding in low tiers.


We (clan) used to do training every Thursday for all interested, on

  • game mechanics,
  • how to fight against certain tanks,
  • how to fight as certain tanks,
  • basics like spotting,
  • roles: MT brawling against a HT is 99% of the time bad for the team,
  • roles: HT pretending to be a TD is 99% of the time bad for the team
  • key map areas and map dissection

but people stopped showing up.



Here's our legacy:



There ARE training clans out there.

FIND one.

Read this:


I STILL go back and read it when I'm having a craptastic streak of games.

Only you can get gud.

There ARE resources out there.



Edited by MacDaddyMatty, Today, 12:55 PM.

el_01 #42 Posted Today, 12:18 AM


  • -Players-
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  • Member since:

View Post1ST_AD_Abrams, on Aug 20 2019 - 01:00, said:

I will answer the challenge questions first.


The Twitch Care Packages Rental Tanks/Tiger ©.

Because of limited gold, I don't have items that have a removal fee.  However I buy the spall liner on every tank and just leave it on.  I usually then combine it with better vision (usually binoculars) and to deal with arty, a toolbox for 25% faster repair.  Usually will have camo on td's in place usually for the toolbox.  I do not have on them any of the "purplish" color or improved/enhanced devices as I don't have many bonds (think about 95 bonds so far)


For consumables I always have a fire extinguisher, and then either a combo of large/small repair and first aid (it varies).


The tanks that I used that come via the tech tree most have reached 100% in their basics and have started their skill/perk.  In most cases the Commander bonus pushes them above 100 to as high as 108-110 yet are short by 1 or 2 points of having a natural 100.  Crew on my KTiger are 100% basic, 100% on a skill and 90% on the second skill/perk. 


In terms of rounds, I do not fire HEAT rounds as some have said that is what I am doing wrong.  The majority of rounds are the cheapy ap rounds.  I then cary about 10-20 Premium depending on the tank storage capacity and then maybe up to 10 HEAT rounds.  I have tried Prem and HEAT at times on Lt, TD with Med/Hvy tanks being prem.  The result is usually the same in no paint scratch, no damage, armor absorbed, etc. (to counter the cost I use one of the Personal Reserves I think they are called where you get 50 or 100% more credits for a period of time as well as crew and tank xp).


For tech tree only tanks, essentially what I listed above is the same.  I even moved my crew that had 100% basic, 100% skill/perk and X % for the next skill/perk from my KanJ 105 Tier VIII TD and retrained the basic for the tank they are driving.


I do not actively go to hurt the team.  The question that no one wants to answer is, if the chokepoint already has multiple tanks of ours and so any additional tank cannot take a shot, isn't that wasting that tank and its use?  Sure when a friendly dies you can move up into their position but usually someone else will push in their instead (I try not to collide with other tanks or fight over a fighting space and will apologize when I do bump someone by accident) and will make sure the tanks in front have the room to fall back during their roll back and forth or when they back up to reload or assess damage/repair it.  As mentioned sitting and being unable to engage at these choke points doesn't seem like a great use of the tank and when you factor in Arty, it makes the situation worse.  I have seen matches where hvys rush to that point and after arty has had them for lunch the team loses as they then have nothing to really stop those heavies then, or the heavies go forward with no spotters or eyes or even support from Medium or TD's.


There is a mentality used in this game which has always been a flaw many don't seem to take into account.  Sure you can rush everything into one flank or direction, however the enemy will send its team onto both sides and use arty and conceal positions to slowly through attrition destroy our tanks because they are so packed in.  For me at least I say will putting my tank in that same spot really turn the game around.  Now as you pointed out my lack of skills, I have never ever said that I am skilled and will state that at times in a game, maybe even before the counter has reached 0.  I have trouble dealing with certain players who know how to effectively protect their tank while smashing my tank.  The damage is usually never balanced, even with Premium.


I know a Heavy based on the community tactics and purpose of, unofficially, is the hvy should be leading a charge since they can absorb damage and have high hit points.  If you send all your heavies then you have nothing really to defend with (no I am not saying TD's, Arty, LT and MT can't stop HT), however I don't know how to explain it further as I can't draw the words from my brain at the moment that would better explain this comment.


Have I used the KT © most, probably as that was the tank I played alot and not because I think I am good enough to be playing at that tier but many rewards the game offers will end up requiring a Tier 7 or 8.  Also since the Twitch care packages have special missions just for the twitch users, it doesn't allow you to use any lower tier tanks and requires you to use, essentially the heavy KT©.  Since I don't achieve the goals right away I have to play more matches to hit the requirement.  Lets not forget of course the missions/rewards that WG give.  Now I currently in terms of assets have 95 Bonds, 1080 Gold, 11,2 million credits and almost 30k Free XP.  The Tier 6 Hvy Tank VK 36.06 has fully trained crew and is classified as elite tank as all modules researched, same with the Tiger and the American Hvy tanks at Tier 6 (the American tank really performs awful and is always penetrated and doesn't seem to harm enemy tanks)


The devs even answered a question I posed as to why hvy tanks in tier IV, V and VI have trouble beating other tanks of same tier or up to 2 tiers above, they said for heavy tanks in that tier range it is very difficult to get good performance/results from them (not the exact words).


If I am classified as useless, meaning I can't be of any use to the team, then it begs the question then being where they want my tank to be means I won't be able to accomplish the task or just canon fodder that they will have to send another tank to replace.  That is why I alert players on my team sometimes that hey I suck and will maybe be able to defeat a single tank before they take me down.


Now in terms of grinding, I have tried to spend time at tier vi, v, iv however it usually is a bad match making and I face tanks 2 tiers above me which results in being almost unable to destroy them or damage them, other than maybe every once in a while getting a critical on their treads.  When I try to play at the lower levels below the KT© players who are vastly way overskilled for the matches are down in those lower ranks making a killing off of new players or those trying to learn.  So you can't really learn if even at the lower levels the vets are using us to raise credits, stats, and crew.  Imagine if the top 10 players in this game were playing against you and 9 others who aren't part of the top 10, not even the top 50%.  They have maxed quality gear like those that require bonds, gold or have Premium tanks.  Maybe you could see then the problem of playing lower tiers.


I am one of those who have always been placed in life in a group that is ahead of me and usually develop all the skills faster than someone who "works" their way up.  No I don't mean to brag and I am sorry if it comes across that way.


In regards to going to to tier 1-iii.  First at times it might be near impossible to find a match, some of those matches might include tier iv or even V's.  To me seal clubbers are those who are ace players who can almost single handedly go through an entire enemy team of newbies.  So you can't learn if you are being matched against those players who know they shouldn't be playing at that low of a competitive level.  So you look upward.  In games where I am matched with a good team, you will see me move forward with them (yes some call this hanging on the coattails or having them do all the work).  However I can't get up fast enough and since they take down enemy tanks so fast, i can't get practice.


I have always had the mentality of viewing each game as well real life.  I say okay they have just about finished off the last 2 heavies with their 4 heavies.  I do not have the ability to damage them enough to take on possible the remaining 2 or 3 there are and I can't depend on help.  I can find myself at times the only one who is pushing on one flank, with 1 or 2 heavies sitting back in the rear, and then dying as I can't take out all the tanks in front of me and with usually no support I can either serve as a road bump stat or fall back and try to get at them 1 or 2 at a time.


The next problem is the chat.  I have been told to push, then told to fall back, then told to move here or there or to defend the base.  You try to figure out then what you should do.  No matter what you do you will get yelled at by those limited number of toxic players.  They seem to think my heavy tank is as fast as a LT which leads to them wondering why my movement isn't fast.  I would also insert here, the problem of the map spamming.  I will be given orders by multiple people, some showing go forward, others to stay, others to get back and others to defend, once again with a player or 2 attacking you for not doing what they want or expect.  There is a saying about too many chiefs and not enough soldiers (it has words in it that might be offensive to a certain ethnic/race group so I can't type what the phrase is normally).


For a few games I tried saying okay heavies left or right and it seemed to make things work but then people didn't bother saying which direction so the heavies might go both directions or sit in the base and do the very thing I get chewed out for.  I will stick my neck in, not to attack them, but ask others to layoff the person.  Since most vets would never admit they probably stunk and had many issues when they first played, they can't understand the plight of the newer player


Seal clubbing as I understand it to be is a very skilled, talented and highly rated player coming down to the lower ranks to get things like Top Gun, High Caliber, and other awards that they might not get if they played at the skill level they should be in.  Yes I know they have to go through the tech tree for each tank they want to play and so they are naturally going to have to appear in low tier matches.  These individuals will because of their aforementioned abilities just dominate the other team and racking up impressive kill totals, damage dealt, killing or fighting to their death 2 or 3 tanks at a time or have already formed a platoon before the match started and/or are playing with clan teammates.


If I can't win against clubbers, then I can't learn and I can't become better.  However if those clubbers are faced with players of their own skill, then I can play and learn the tactics and perhaps rise up or raise my level of play.  As I said I have my moments in those levels, it just depends on the map, the enemy, etc.


You had quoted this from my post "Am I doing my role as Hvy tank correctly, no."  You say I need to own up, I did.  I also do it in game but figure eventually some people will hear that so much they will get tired of me warning them in advance.


I don't view myself as a handicap per se, but at a disadvantage or not able to match skill to skill.  Now I have seen other players who are driving other tanks who are not doing their role in their tank type, yet I am the only 1 that will win or lose the match.  I would think 1 player can't just win or lose a match, since it includes 10-15 other players.  Random is exactly what it means, random skill levels, random tiers and so on.  Since this is a team the team needs to always find the best way to work with the players on it.  Scouts have been seen in the back with Heavy tanks, however they ignore the toxic comments, ignore the threats to report for being afk/bot or not playing the game right.  I am not trying to excuse myself but just pointing out I am not the only one who is playing at a higher level and not doing their part (heck it appears even in lower tiers).


So am I partial cause of the problems, sure.  However the players are showing they are so concerned about stats that they have to harass others who maybe don't have their skill but want to work or try to play at a higher level.  Blame WG for this issue.  I have played soccer (futball outside the US) since I was 8 or 9.  I started my first year at the lowest level then was invited to try out for a level way above me.  Yes I was teased because I might kick the ground and not the ball, might not win foot tackles or dribble and not lose the ball, however by the 3rd year my skills were at or above the very same players from my 2nd year.  So sometimes learning above what you can do is how some can learn.  If experienced players/vets have problems with players who are not gifted yet to be great players at that level, 1 or 2 people should not be the breaking point between win or loss.  If what they is doing will get them destroyed, if you send them to some other location they will die as well, it all equals out.  Players also might be having a bad day and so they play it safe till they get over the bad streaks and start getting back into being someone.


To say a person can't play at a tier until they have meet some sort of quota at lower levels is limiting new users to see the future and take those skills and apply them at lower level.  If you are a good player you shouldn't be attacking players and constantly spamming their location or shooting them, I don't understand why these players don't instead support them with comments that encourage them to rise to greater skill.  If you attack them, they get frustrated and flustered and usually won't play good.  You are essentially saying it is okay for them as I do not qualify to be playing at that level.  That is excluding people or personally doing things in chat in and out of the game as well as actions in the game that only makes that player get well either worse or decide that they will do what is comfortable to them.  My skill level is no excuse for the comments (toxic/negative) just as road rage is unacceptable on new drivers, sure they should stay in the right lanes (if driving in the US) but they should have the right to be on that freeway (maybe not the best example but hopefully you are catching my drift).


If players are looking for very good skilled matches, clan or platoon up.  Random is just that random.  It doesn't mean a random map, random battle type or random type of tanks but also random in terms of skill level as well.  I never seen a single person actually in game that uses positive comments, only negative and get out of "our/their" game yet if they are asked to leave the very low tiers they go after you because they feel they have the right to play any level/tier they want.  So why the double standard?


I don't stick my fingers in my ears (virtually or literally).  I have I think two tier vi tanks.  I have had many tier VI, VII, and VIII tanks.  The Kan 105 was tier 8 TD.  I played in that.  My only tier 7 is a KT© so naturally it will have more battles and will be an issue when I talk about it like I did here.  I could in the German tech tree move to the Tiger 1 (vii ) or Panther (vii) but I know not to bother right now since I have a t7 in the KT© and can learn before I start to use the Panther or Tiger.  I have seen players who service record show little time spent in a single type of low level tank and instead enough probably to make it an elite tank and of course stats, credits, crew training and awards, since I am sure it is easy for them to get top gun at those lower levels.


I explain my reasons so they can understand.  That doesn't mean that gives them a right to any more disrupt my right to play and have fun as me possibly affecting theirs.  I have stated this that if I am useless then I shouldn't impact the game.  I am also sure I am not the only useless player since I assume if you are dying early on that doesn't help the team.  I mentioned those things I am not doing to state in terms of things that are rules/terms or conditions of use that they seem to love to report people on false or misunderstood premises.  AFK means the tank doesn't move at all, doesn't fire a shot, does nothing.  I have caught players with 20k+ battles doing just that and people telling me not to report the person (usually they also have a clan tag) not to me that really is useless.  Unsportsmanlike doesn't mean skill, abilities, performance, etc, it means what I listed in my post above this one.  Some people haven't played real sports (meaning that didn't involve a console or computer or hand held device or cell phone) so they don't know what that really means.  If these people have played sports they know that they will have weak players and strong players and so they have to adapt to overcome any weakness while playing to their strengths.


So yes me sucking can be viewed as not allowing them to have fun.  However if they have enough time on their hands to follow me around in and out of the game, to shoot me in the back now that FF rules won't punish them (well this one person when FF was on, would do it anytime he/she saw me and used multiple accounts to do it, to type insults-abuse-harass, then are they then performing to their best as typing something an enemy tank could appear and they have to exit.  Should two wrongs make a right.  Should they be allowed to block my access to having fun, whether at tier VI, VII, VIII when the comments also occur in these lower levels of Tiers I-IV/V.  Those players need to realize that I don't have years of playing I have 2-3 months of playing.  I don't worry about my stats as I am not playing this game for its stats.  Some people just don't understand how to act with players who maybe don't do what they want just as their are players like me who like the level of competition in the higher ranks (don't worry I won't be in any IX or X tanks as I know that is way to far up yet in tier vi or vii I get stuck fighting those, which isn't so much the fault of the IX or X but of the mm system (however players who use their highest tier should also note that at a certain point in term of number of people on a server they could find themselves being overskilled compared to others.


My skills, how I play, etc, doesn't justify the abuse/harassment/insults/toxic and hurtful comments or actions in game (like the one who blocked my path no matter which direction I tried to go and this person had like 40K battles to their name).  Sometimes I will see a chat for help or for people to quickly move to an area and if I can I will and I try.  To turn chat off is forcing me to turn off a part of the game.  This game isn't for 1 person or 1 group and so is it fair to say sorry you can't play, sorry you deserve to be abused, sorry you should be playing exactly like they are even though you have seen the follies that end up in a loss and you could all but predict it so you don't just rush up and fight like that.


I had started this comment somewhere in my post, I have always played online/mmo/multiplayer games from the standpoint that if I die I am dead for real.  That means I am much more cautious.  That is a problem of course.  However one game, I was the only one who was trusted with certain gear as the commander of the team knew I wouldn't run straight into the enemy that might have superior numbers or damage ability and lose that item that cost money the team earned by doing certain things like controlling a location, mining, etc.  That is why when I see some of the rushes in the game I think is that a pointless rush since they have no support to show them what is ahead and will result in the fps way of fighting where everyone runs into the middle and gets their fun from being in close combat, however that is what they enjoy, I don't.  So who is right or wrong, neither as everyone should be allowed to enjoy the game in their own way and play style.  If that person feels they are trying to help the team you can't fault them or judge them, after all what you might be doing could be viewed by others as wrong.


This game has a set of "unofficial" rules on tank use based on type and tier.  Everyone seems that if you don't play that role then the best way to correct things is the abuse and toxic nature.  Holding grudges in a match, now that shouldn't be acceptable at all.  It is a game.  Remember if we lose I lose.  If I make a mistake then I am dead and helped someone get a kill.  Chasing after people outside the match and calling them names should be considered acceptable just because you suck or players at that Tier don't want you playing there.  If so they need to create a new type of random battle, private password protected matches so that you can exclude those you view as inferior.  Remember LT were not meant to take on the role they have in the game when first introduced as they were to be the eyes of the team and for atry, not taking on hvy tanks, making a straight run to find enemy arty and destroy it, etc (please note this is purely my understanding what the role of a lt is more or less to be based on comments and other pieces of information).


Never said that I shouldn't be open to be told I am not doing what I need to.  However being verbally abused, attacked in game with FF before the 1.6 patch and now, having my location constantly tracked.  Is that the behaviour that is considered acceptable.  Should I have to leave because they want to have their own fun.  Isn't this game for everyone.  Can't these players be more respectful of a persons right to choose and if they don't agree, just say something that is neutral that they don't approve but if that is what you want to do, you could end up hurting us in the end or something that isn't like the attacks I get.  Should I tell those who get killed in the first minute they should learn their tank at a lower level because they lost their tank at the start, reducing how many players we have, no, but my presence is a justifiable reason to act the way these players are acting.


No I haven't watched every video, every stream.  There is only so much you can learn from a stream/video.  You are unable to ask questions.  However the training which I issued the challenge for and the message I am working on a post (I already have it all put together but going back to refine it) will ask for the kind of help that would be not seeing my role in a game but instead looking at how I position myself, what I am at or shouldn't aim at, best way to increase damage done and ways to adjust your tank stance to absorb/block damage and how to respond to various scenarios.  I envision being said okay aim at their tank, shoot and I tell them what I was shooting for, they then point out just where I should really target and how or what position I should take with my tank.  That is something you can't learn from a video.  Having the player have you adjust the way you position your tank for battling another tank that is also behind cover.  It was only after I noticed someone post a message like mine, that I thought it would be okay to ask for help in that manner but the question of whether just to continue on that thread or create my own (will be creating my own).  I have replay on for the last 5 or 6 days to gather up videos that can help to show where I have the problems, etc.


However this still goes to the anti-newbie question.  This community and any online community should be looking to add more people not chase them away.  If certain people can't handle being around newbies maybe someone should let them know in a polite way that isn't going to help.


If you can't say something polite or nice, then you shouldn't say it.  If you don't like the way a person is playing, you don't have the right to attempt to interfere with their right to play or cause enough distraction that they can't play or have fun and try to run them away.  So in the end, this is a game, meant to be enjoyed by all (not by only certain players) as that was what I thought was a mature player base when I decided to give the game a chance.  That is an example of what is wrong in the world today, everyone feels their rights take preference over others, usually based on race/ethnicity/wealth/standing in community/importance/job etc.  Should games be excluded.  Should certain people have that right and not others.


"You can't have it both ways.... right now you want to burden 14 other guys who are trying hard to win and then expect them to sit around the campfire with you and make S'mores and sing songs.... it doesn't work that way. It isn't against the rules to be a jack*** in chat and its unlikely WG going to change that. Expecting Clans to "police" their members is laughably naïve, there are entire clans full of jerks."  I don't want to make S'mores on sing songs and I don't judge the mistakes of others with attacks.  I have seen mistakes made by players who consider themselves good.  Does one have a right to be a jerk on chat, sure it is where I am a free country, but does that mean it is acceptable by the community, no.  WG obviously won't change however they have the power to take action.  Clans policing its members, that isn't being naive, it is instead just an idea and since most clans prize their tag/clan name and know when one of their members is out there they are a goodwill ambassador for that clan and if they act like some do, then that doesn't put the clan in a good light.  Sure some clans could care less how abusive their players are.  The community then needs to find ways to show that everyone including clans should have some sort of etiquette, some sort of partial respect of other players, etc.  I have known clans/groups/fleets/guilds/ or whatever they might be called where the whole group is made up of good players but with horrible behavior and most of those games that team is then shunned and others who are invited will see the negative view they are in and might not join.  So saying clans can't play a part is naive and essentially saying they are exempt from any sort of asking their players to play fair, to play nice with others and represent the best of the clan.


If someone is going to attack, harass, name call and all sorts about my abilities and tactics, then they should be willing to own up or be quiet.  I issue that challenge because if they have so much time to worry about what I am doing, then they would be the best teachers in terms of seeing how I fight and being able to address it in a teaching mode.  Of course they are better than me, but if they are going to make an issue by citing how my stats are on the low side and using their stats as a authorization to act the way they do, then make the player better if you can't act like a person in chat or in game actions.

mon dieu break up your text next time would ya


I see that you're trying to improve but there are some points I would like to make:

  • Gold demounting is BS, I just sell the equipment along with the tank and maybe make more credits too.
  • You should support your team in some positions because they are key positions. Even if it does feel like wasting your tank, some positions MUST be kept on maps to prevent your team from being fenced in. To win a game, you at least need to win one key side on a map. Some positions are super important and taking them and holding them is key to victory. Example is forest on Murovanka. It might seem like rushing there has no point, but if you position yourself correctly, you can prevent your team from being flanked.
  • HEAT is not always effective. Gold rounds don't turn your vehicle into a godlike monster tank. You still have to aim, but you can afford to aim better. Also, the M6 has a relatively powerful 90mm, have you tried it out? I strongly recommend the French heavies if not because from Tier 5 onward you have extremely powerful guns that can pen many higher-tiered vehicles reliably BY WEAKSPOTS. There are no tanks that can pen any other tank in the game at any place. Even Tier 10 TDs can't do that. 
  • Are you having fun? Just have fun. Ignore everything else. If doing damage is the way you have fun, then send me a PM.

Don't worry about anyone else in the game. So what? The world is filled with people you don't know. If you're playing a sport and people walk or drive by the place you're playing, should you care what they think? I don't. Same with World of Tanks. It's about yourself, and yourself having fun. Ignore the crap, you'll get sent it a lot for not getting the greatest damage per battle, I still get it even though I'm not a tomato.


Also, something you should do is to stop playing your tier 8s and 7s. I get it, it's tempting to progress and play at a higher level. I've tried it, and through my 3 tier 8 games in a very good tank, I got slaughtered. That showed me that I'm not ready for it, and I recognized that early. You also bought tier 8s and 7s that are tricky to play right, and not at all forgiving, exacerbating the fact that your understanding of the game is not at the level required at higher tiers. Mine isn't either, I'm working on it. The thing is that because you haven't played many 4, 5, and 6 battles in a variety of non-premium tanks, your understanding of gameplay at that level where it starts to develop is incomplete, and that carries over to higher tier gameplay.


I have a mission for you, whether you accept it or not is up to you. Turn on the damage done, blocked, and assisted indicators through settings (look on the first page iirc). Compare the damage done and assisted to your hitpoints. Read this, and count the shots of damage you do per battle as well. If you can say to yourself without batting an eyelash that you have contributed to your team your hitpoint value and gun value, then move on with your life. If not, then count your shots per battle and try to improve upon that.


If you need help, find the "replays" folder in your World of Tanks installation, and copy/paste then rename the file into a folder elsewhere on your computer. Share them on the forums, people will tell you what you could work on.


Sorry if I sound like an a**hole, I'm trying to cut to the chase and be specific.




ChaseR392 #43 Posted Today, 01:57 AM

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 7449 battles
  • 610
  • Member since:

View Post1ST_AD_Abrams, on Aug 20 2019 - 09:00, said:

I will answer the challenge questions first.


The Twitch Care Packages Rental Tanks/Tiger ©.

Because of limited gold, I don't have items that have a removal fee.  However I buy the spall liner on every tank and just leave it on.  I usually then combine it with better vision (usually binoculars) and to deal with arty, a toolbox for 25% faster repair.  Usually will have camo on td's in place usually for the toolbox.  I do not have on them any of the "purplish" color or improved/enhanced devices as I don't have many bonds (think about 95 bonds so far)


For consumables I always have a fire extinguisher, and then either a combo of large/small repair and first aid (it varies).


In terms of rounds, I do not fire HEAT rounds as some have said that is what I am doing wrong.  The majority of rounds are the cheapy ap rounds.  I then cary about 10-20 Premium depending on the tank storage capacity and then maybe up to 10 HEAT rounds.  I have tried Prem and HEAT at times on Lt, TD with Med/Hvy tanks being prem.  The result is usually the same in no paint scratch, no damage, armor absorbed, etc. (to counter the cost I use one of the Personal Reserves I think they are called where you get 50 or 100% more credits for a period of time as well as crew and tank xp).



I've read your entire post... and then re-read it several times. Honestly for most of it I'm speechless.... and not in a good way.


But lets start with your equipment. Not enough gold to demount is not a valid excuse to equip items that are of little use... or in the case of the spall liner, of little use and extra weight. If you are running a spall liner, binocs and a toolbox on KT, unless you swapped the Toolbox for a camo net I couldn't think of a more useless combo. 


The binocs require you to sit still for them to active.... and you will still be outspotted by most other tanks if not because of VR, but because your camo rating sucks. Sitting still makes you a nice juicy arty target as well. A toolbox is okay... but really of little use if you are training repair on your crew, running a repair kit (even a small one), and most importantly.... are with the other heavy tanks which can help prevent you from being focused on while your tracks repair. You really shouldn't need a spall liner... it will help against arty and HE rounds, yes, but other items are FAR more useful for improving your combat effectiveness.


Spall liners on mediums and TDs (unless you are talking about a Doom Turtle) are completely worthless and just adding extra weight.


The fact that you aren't running rammers to boost is your DPM is almost unbelievable.... it should be one of the 3 items of equipment you run on 90% of the tanks in the game.


Enhanced (purple) shouldn't even be part of this conversation. You don't need it to do well.... and regardless of what you think.... the overwhelming majority of players don't have any of it, and those that do don't have it on every tank they play.


And a word on ammo.... I don't think you have played a single tank that has HEAT ammo. I think you are mistaking regular high explosive (HE) rounds for HEAT (high explosive anti-tank), firing HE at a tank with very thick armor likely to do little to no damage unless you aim for modules like tracks, the gun or viewports. To be perfectly blunt... if you still don't understand the various kinds of ammo, you shouldn't be playing at Tier 8.


Now to "playing your tank correctly"....


Camping in the back to "protect the arty" in your KT is a fool's errand, no matter how you try to justify it. You can't spot the lights or meds first, you can't traverse fast enough to keep them from circling you, and you don't have the DPM to kill them  even if you could. 


I really don't get your "chokepoints" comment.... yes lots of maps tend funnel heavies into a fairly small brawling area, but unless you get a team with 6 or 7 heavies (rare) I literally can't think of a map where 3 or 4 heavies can't operate together with out interfering with each other. When top tier in that KT, you should be up front leading the bottom tier heavies. When bottom tier, you should be supporting the top tier heavies from behind them using your accuracy to target weakspots. After nearly 3000 battles... you should have a basic understanding of "map meta"... i.e. where heavies go on this map, TDs hide here, mediums will try to flank from here, etc. Sure you are going to be on teams were one flank does something dumb and gets erased... it is what it is.... but using that occasional battle to justify an uber-passive playstyle is not valid.


You said:


"In regards to going to to tier 1-iii.  First at times it might be near impossible to find a match, some of those matches might include tier iv or even V's.  To me seal clubbers are those who are ace players who can almost single handedly go through an entire enemy team of newbies.  So you can't learn if you are being matched against those players who know they shouldn't be playing at that low of a competitive level.  So you look upward.  In games where I am matched with a good team, you will see me move forward with them (yes some call this hanging on the coattails or having them do all the work).  However I can't get up fast enough and since they take down enemy tanks so fast, i can't get practice."


Sorry... this is total BS. Yes it can be tough to get a Tier 1 match, but unless you are playing at 3am, you will get a Tier 3 battle without any trouble. You could also drop down to the SA server and play against bots.


Your ideas on "seal-clubbing" are totally ridiculous.... true "seal-clubbers" can't cut it at higher tiers so they play in lower tiers against less skilled players. A person of average skill can hold their own against them no problem. And quite frankly... you don't see the irony of saying they shouldn't be playing at that level when you go up to Tier 7 or 8 so your team can "carry" you? 


And carrying you is EXACTLY what they are doing.... you have a 33% survival rate yet average barely 1 shot of damage. You have almost no positive effect on a battle.... but a huge negative one. Look, I don't believe you actively intend to grief your teams... but when you sit in the back and do nothing.... your team essentially starts a battle 14-15, and your teammates have to work that much harder to win. Not surprisingly.... when they doesn't work out they aren't too happy with you. When things are going well... guess what they aren't going to slow down you can get a couple token shots so you can feel like you "helped".... so yeah you aren't going to get much "practice" at higher tiers.


Which brings me to my last point.


Yes you have owned up that you are struggling, but you still refused to take ownership of the fact that the only thing you can change is your own performance/actions. The only thing you can change is you but you are completely obsessed with what other people are doing.... whether they be people you perceive to be seal-clubbing, good players who make mistakes, people in clans, people not playing their tank right, people being nasty in chat, etc. 




In the 3 mammoth walls of text you have posted on this thead (and in numerous others) you have spent 90% of the time whining about what other people are doing. Nothing you do is going to change what other people do.... even if you get better... people will be d-bags in chat, they will push you, etc. It never ends. Right now you are simply using it as a crutch to justify continuing to do what you are doing now.


In closing.... have 3 choices.


You can accept the only thing you can change is you.... stop whining about salty chat and seal-clubbers and make a legitimate effort to improve as a player... which has the added effect of minimizing salty chat and seal-clubbers, and IMO, increases the enjoyment of the game.


You can continue to "do it your way" and turn off chat, play your Twitch Rentals never read another nasty word.


You can change nothing, keep chat, and keep coming to the forum and complaining. Which means people will still grief you, insult you in chat and ridicule you on the forum. If you think I'm being critical... I'm pretty tame compared to a lot of players on the forum.


You may think I'm being a jerk.... but would like to see you, or any other new player, improve as a player, enjoy the game and continue to play. 

1ST_AD_Abrams #44 Posted Today, 02:08 PM


  • -Players-
  • 2759 battles
  • 47
  • Member since:

MAJOR WARNING:  Bring some strong coffee or drink something with a high dose of caffeine, this post is going to be beyond mammoth in size.


el_01 Response

"yourself having fun. Ignore the crap"

Well when certain people prevent you from moving to a new location (in this case I was trying to get around the side to hopefully surprise the enemy, but never got a chance as the allied tank wouldn't let me through and sure I could have just turned around and go around somewhere else, but that prevented me from moving up and could have caused me to take lethal damage (I don't remember how many hp were left by that stage of the game.  When people are doing any and everything to interfere with that fun, it is hard to keep it fun.  I have turned off chat, but sadly I still see the chat (under settings-general) and the off and on person clicking a dozen times where I am.  This entire week of problems has left me with a desire to pull back and cover and conceal and stay there as I fire upon a tank that is visible (zoom out and look over your cover).  Advance when I see an opportunity (and yes, preservation does play a factor so if there are still 12 tanks on the enemy team I probably will still snipe when I can - I apologize here for anyone who sees this and is furious, angry, ticked off, repeled or other most intense hatred - I am not trying to ruin your enjoyment but for me right now this is the only choice to have fun - also since my KT© seems to barely do 250 approx damage and same tier hvys can hit for as much as 300 or more.  


"You also bought tier 8s and 7s that are tricky to play"
I have actually not spent a dime/gold/crumpets or whatever you can think of on new tanks.  Just having below 1100 gold makes it impossible.  I get the v, vi, vii, viii from the care packages from Amazon Prime that includes Twitch Prime who every months has freebies for members.  As mentioned because of how WG handles the gifts, I don't get a choice to shelve them till I am ready and they said they won't do it either no matter what the problem it could be causing, so it is use them or lose them, so I give them a try even though I know it is perhaps too high for me.  The care pack this month was the tier 8 kan 105 TD and Dicker Max TD (think Tier 6).  I tried the DM and absolutely hated it.  I tried the kan and while I am not a fan of fixed guns I eventually got use to it.  I discovered that this tank should not try and take on anything greater than maybe a scout or another TD - because of armor and the reload time (that is what got me killed the most so I have but killed the target but by the time I have reloaded the chance to finish is gone and they have now moved up and found an angle on me or arty is dropping while I cover to reload.  So I have never bought tanks and wouldn't bother as the tank cost are just too overpriced to pay, $20 for I think a Tier 6 tank with no extras.  The only tanks I own are stock/tech tree, the King Tiger © and the M10 RFBM (the KT was from care package that has missions only the KT can do every month, the M10 was from the D-Day event).


"I have a mission for you, whether you accept"

Please tell me this isn't an IMF mission or having to watch Tom Cruise in yet another MI movie (sorry hope to include some brevity).  I do have those 3 indicators of damage/blocked/since spotted on.  My KT gun does about 150-175 or when luck seems to be with me 200-220 - I did see a medium tank of same tier land a shot where the game said it was 804 damage but since I was below that it didn't count all of that in damage taken (the damage is all I can get out of it and the crew already has the tank training and one perk at 100% the 2nd perk is at 92%).  Other problem, I do the initial hit and then arty and other teammates finish the job before I can reload and fire again or the target has sought cover.  Right now you might call me a bottom feeder, I take out tanks that are near death as they are the only ones that hopefully my first shot will kill or others would get it (so instead of getting the full damage credit I only get the credit of the hp that was left on the tank) and so when I look at damage caused and I killed 1,2 (only when God is in charge of the RNG) 3 kills, I know the total damage caused will not reflect the total value of hits, so sometimes hard to determine that part.  I know if I killed tanks, especially arty or a bothersome enemy, that I did contribute.  One match I even told the arty I will come over and park my tank in front of the arty to shield him as long as my tank would hold up.


"You should support your team in some positions because they are key positions. Even if it does feel like wasting your tank, some positions MUST be kept on maps to prevent your team from being fenced in. To win a game, you at least need to win one key side on a map. Some positions are super important and taking them and holding them is key to victory. Example is forest on Murovanka. It might seem like rushing there has no point, but if you position yourself correctly, you can prevent your team from being flanked."

In addition I like to think that if I keep a path of access closed, that is helping.  You said it yourself about the being flanked.  I have been in a battle where they flanked the rock we were using (one of the desert maps) and pinned all 5 of our heavies between their heavies and medium,td and lt on the other, with bad results for us.  I approach this part by putting myself maybe back a way in the rear or up a little depending on what the map looks like, and when friendlies roll back into cover I then fire or wait till the enemy fires and they really can't seek enough cover for their whole tank, however in most cases the only thing I do is critical damage - tracks, otherwise it is always a non-pen and no damage while if they get a shot before I can return to cover it is 300 plus damage and crew or module damaged/destroyed.  There was a match that I got over 2000 hps blocked by armor and that was by fish tailing the frontal part of the tank but it was probably a fluke.  Even with a stopped, well aimed shot that I can't even kill a lt even at lower levels (of course there I suspect dispersion is impacting the chance of hitting, however if I hit a LT/TD/Arty on the side that really blows my mind).  


I do look at the session stats only to see just how bad or decent I might be doing.  I look for the whole list to show green and if not then I try and improve any red ones.  Right now it is red on damage dealt to damage taken (but I made a mention of the issue above so won't type it again).


Note in this paragraph I probably do a little bragging, I am not trying to compare the two with it or say I am a great soccer (US only), just trying to say that I do apply the did I help the team, did I do myself right.  I try to approach a match with the same attitude I have applied since the first day I stepped onto the pitch when I was 8 years old (U-10), if I don't come out of the game with at least some blood, bruise, cut, pitch all over my lower body (okay not all of my lower body) that is my first thing I look at to judge did I play hard (fair no illegal or yellow card offenses).  The second I look at the score board and where the goals came in from.  I use to be on the front line or midline (speed, crossing, being a natural lefty and some power in the leg) but by accident the coach and I saw that I was very effective defensively (the game that changed that was when I had 2 goals, and wanted that hattrick and he said I will put you in as center defense back as that is the only person asking for a sub) If they were scored either by the person I was shadowing in the Left Fullback position (I will ignore the issue here about other positions on the pitch) or they got a cross to someone who scores, then I failed and I will beat myself up inside because the goalie I have been playing with now for 6 years trusted me implicitly to protect that side.  Same thing goes on with my grades in my college classes, I will after the test quickly open my book and see if I had the right answers and then once again in self-destructive thinking, ask myself why I couldn't remember this or that (not out loud obviously)


"Share replays"

Heck I have probably an entire week worth of matches stored (since they only take up to maybe 1 mb in the replay folder for each match).  The thing that would concern me, will people be looking at the tank type and role I should be playing or looking at why I didn't do damage to a tank, didn't get enough damage, didn't properly side-swipe or use cover effectively.  So if someone really wants to look through my replays and analyze the damage given/taken, kills, blocks, etc., I have no problem posting all currently in my replay folder.  I just don't want to be yelled at or my position/location on the map with the tank be what they point out.  If I can get my gunning issues resolved as to what is wrong as well as blocking shots and why some tanks on their flanks take no damage, then I would start feeling more comfortable being closer to the front and the enemy.  Yes there are other things that need learning, but right now the gunning topic is the main factor that I know is not working right - even in Tier IV.


"Sorry if I sound like an a**hole, I'm trying to cut to the chase and be specific."

I don't think anything you said was a personal attack or anything negative, that is however the way I haven't seen people in game act.


"Stop using HE rounds"

Actually I discovered on my own they didn't enhance really what I did to light armor or open turrent/carriage.  I tried them because of the tip on the loading screen.  In addition one of the goals in the HT campaign requires 30 stuns and when I asked about it, I was told I would need to use HE rounds.  Once again when tried and no results, stopped.  So no I don't use HE rounds all the time.



ChaseR392 response




I know that I can type a great deal of information but I have found, and actually studies have shown, that on the internet there is over 50% of what someone says that is read the wrong way, so I try to be as in depth in detail as possible.


"lets start with your equipment"

If I was using gold as an excuse then it didn't come across in the manner I meant it to.  I am saying that having limited Gold I have to be careful to not waste it on demounting (yes I usually will turn to my credits instead - if however since I limited Tank storage I don't know what or how much that item will fetch me when left on the tank.  So the mention of demounting and gold, no they are not valid reasons/excuse for performance, I hope I didn't say they were other than limiting what I mount to those without a gold cost demount.


Toolkit.  If there is one thing that has been the bane or sharp stab in the game is the repair time.  Even doing what I was told by a vet who said never show your frontal armor and instead face your tank in less than 90 degrees from the target like    /   .  I notice many of my deaths occur because of tracks being damaged.  Enemy tank hits me, detracks me, then arty follows up and starts the repair time over again, so that by the time they are repaired I am probably already dead or have fewer hitpoints and a tier 1 lt (approx).  Since it speeds it up by 25% I chose that.


Spall liner - meant to try and help keep my crew alive and the other benefits it provides.  I noticed that when I applied it for the first time I noticed longer longevity in battle.  In every new tier of tank once again I have seen things improved with the spall liner.


Binocs - obviously increased view (since hvy tanks are suppose to have bad vision)


Let me digress for a moment on Spotting.  What exactly does a light tank have, in terms of realism, that other tanks wouldn't have for viewing distance?  That I have always wondered.  Maybe that was part of how they wanted lt to do, have the spotting range for arty.  Otherwise I don't see why they are the only ones that can see far and see tanks in cover while also driving like a drunk driver trying to go through a cone course.  That also is an issue that at such speed, how are they actually able to pinpoint targets in cover.  The game should require them to come to a halt for maybe 2-3 seconds to spot at max range and spot tanks in cover.  The tank type shouldn't penalize your ability to spot targets (just my 2 cents or nickle on LT vs HvyTk viewing range)


"binocs require you to sit still for them to active.... and you will still be outspotted"

I understand that.  I remembered the game video saying I think it was 6 or 7 spotting spots on your tank.  So I try and find cover that will conceal those 6 or 7 spots, especially from lt running by.  This might also be a problem in that just because you are a big tank doesn't mean you should be more visible and a big TD or Arty, however that is the penalty for having a heavy tank.  I try not to go out in the open since I am both blind and a sitting duck in the open.  Gunnery skills impact when or where I might take cover or push on.  None of my crews are training for repairs per se.

The first item is at 100% the second skill is at 92% currently in the KT

Cmdr - Eagle Eye and Sixth Sense

Gunner - Designated and Deadeye

Driver - Off Road Driving and Clutch Breaking

Radio - Situational Awareness and Signal Boosting

Loader - Intuition and Adrenaline Rush


"aren't running rammers to boost is your DPM"

One says it reduces reload by 10%, and with a lets say 10 second reload time, it would only remove 1 second from the time.  So the rammer I have always looked at as giving really no boost of value.  I mention purple gear only because it appears as an option and I think slightly high stats/buffs/debuffs.


As mentioned I do carry manual fire exting, small and large rep kits.


The rounds I fire are the AP and APCR.  The HE round can also be viewed as an High Explosive Anti-Tank, so I will say HEAT even though the game shows it as just HE, so I will correct my use of terminology on that issue.


Here is what I do know about rounds.

Distance - The longer the distance to the target the less effective AP and APCR are, because they depend on kinetic energy to penetrate an enemy armor and the further they have to travel the less kinetic energy they have when they hit the tank, but it should also apply to the tank firing at me as well, or at least should.  HE rounds don't depend on kinetic energy to do their damage so range isn't an issue unless you are trying to hit a very low armor pen value and still better to use the AP to finish them.


Damage Type - AP and APCR help to penetrate the tank, damage modules and of course crew and hit points on the tank.  The angle the other tank is facing will affect the performance of the round.  For example the T-34 with its slopped armor cause major issues (reality) for German Panzers in WWII because by tilting the armor by about 45% you are essentially adding more armor without actually adding armor so what might be 60mm of armor if just flat facing, tilt it back and it could become lets say 90 mm of armor with no new armor added.  HE rounds will never really penetrate but it will let the crew know someone has them in their sight..  HE mainly depends on the explosion on impact and will frequently cause splash damage and so a arty HE round fired that misses your tank but hits the ground next to it will cause splash damage and will usually result in stunning the crew.  So how a tank is facing can increase the armor and increase the chance for a richochet or bounce, even with the APCR use.  Parts of the tank that have the most armor is the upper glacial plate (think that is what they call it) and the turrent facing armor.  They recommend you aim for the lower glaicial plate (the part of the armor that goes down underneath a tank).  Aim at one of several module spots - the commanders view/couppula, the drivers location, the far side of the turrent, the radio antenna (assuming you are viewing the front of the enemy tank)



Yes funneling can be used as well.  I use it to represent places on the map where the tanks essentially up being like a bushel of grapes and will stop any advance till you have killed the enemy tanks that are preventing you from moving forward, down, left, right or whatever direction.  It seems only in Tier 6 and Tier 4 that I see only 1-3 heavies, Tier 7 (KT) I have seen six heavies and as you mentioned 4 usually.  I have that map pack that shows you on each map where the standard spotting, ambush/tds hide and possible locations of armor (not sure on that last one).


"you should be up front leading the bottom tier heavies"

Majority probably 90% of what my KT has fought in, it might be the same or only tier in the match (like VII vs VII).  I have had matches with Tier V, VI - but very few.  Many of the games that when the US server is down to about 6000 users or less then I see my VII vs VIII, IX and X.  So rarely are there lower tiers at least for me.  I understand the part about being in front however with the issues of doing damage being a big problem, once I get that gunnery issue resolved (as mentioned in comments to el_01) I could feel better being there of course the arty I have seen destroy or annihilate HT's out in front where they are 2,3,4, or more ht are in the area and like in almost any sport they tell you not to bunch up or in combat (training only for me) you want to spread out when under arty (which includes mortars and launchers) because it prevents 1 round from killing multiple soldiers at once.  So that is why I mentioned chokepoint and not joining where all our heavies are concentrated.


"but using that occasional battle to justify an uber-passive playstyle is not valid"
Most battles are, at least in my view requires one to think where they should be.  Please do not mistake my comments here as saying I don't want your advice or don't want to know how to or where to be, I am only comment on the topic so you can see my logic/thinking/reasoning.  On a map where there is a long path down the side with little for cover, if I see heavies pushing with no td, no mt no lt and I see the enemy having some mix of td, mt, lt, most of the time the heavies will lose or only 1 heavy will survive and they only destroyed maybe 3 enemy heavies with 1-2 still out there and for any zealous non-HT that thought they could go out further around their heavies to get a shot and usually end up dying.  I don't look it as being uber-passive rather more cautious and finding other ways to get in the fight (only because passive to me means just sitting there and not reacting to anything that could impact you, like a tank that you could target and shoot, for example.  Please as already stated do not take this to mean I am not listening to what you are saying but just want to make sure you understand what I am saying so we can find that point where we are on the same page, the same page that would reduce my problems with certain players.


Finding Matches

Bots in SA server.  Now are these bots that WG put in to fill out a team or are you talking about the bad bots that people use (for whatever reason) - credits, wins, etc.  As stated the most I have ever seen online is around 17K people in the NA server.  In the SA server there are usually less than 5K.  I play during the hours of 10pm CT till about 8am CT so I only have about two hours of when I can get in Tier I-IV matches, more tier V and VI.  I would disagree that it is easy to get Tier I or II matches, since I have seen people ask in a game (usually in the V, VI matches) or in the general forum when the server population drops below about 6k.


Now you are saying BS to everything in the paragraph you quoted or just the match making of the tiers.  Since the better players showing up in lower tiers is a problem and can make it difficult to learn or train your skills.  These are players who essentially push through a teams defense to wind up with 6-8 kills (not arty either).



I partial don't agree in full about the carrying issue.  What do you use as a measure?  Damage done?  Number of vehicles spotted?  Tanks destroyed/damaged?  In any game, in my opinion, you are always carrying those who are less skilled.  To tell less skilled they are not welcomed because they won't have the stats or won't rack up the stats that you have, then no beginner should play any game or match.  Clans should restrict matches to only the very best on their team.  I see carrying where I actually don't move, don't shoot or other inaction where you don't take some hits yourself.  I have been in matches where because of higher tier (viI vs VII, IX, X) where the tanks are faster and do more damage per shot.  I will at times try to find a new angle or new stack where I can do damage.  However right now because of all that has been going on, I have been staying in the rear or moving up to places of cover that will allow me a chance, hopefully of attacking enemy tanks.  Sure that might meet your defintion of the team carrying you but it can also be viewed as the teammate are simply better than you and are doing the work that you want to be involved in but can't.  I know you will say BS and totally false to anything I just said.  If I do damage tanks, take out a tank, etc, that is contributing to the team.  Wouldn't then someone who has no kills and minimal damage on your team be considered people are being carried?  Remember that if the person doesn't damage or kill or spot, their xp will be minimal.  I would like to think those with the skills and are vets that they aren't worried about carrying unless the entire team is made up of those people they have to carry.  I don't play my KT so others can carry me.  I want a stronger challenge, more realism, more of what WoT represents.  As mentioned when you can't train in lower tiers because of more skilled players who have access to higher tier tanks come down and beat up those less skilled, what do you do then, just accept blowouts and even worse that person then is carrying you.  So I don't totally agree with the carrying issue.  I try to learn from these matches and frequently if not all the time once I am dead, will immediately switch to spectator mode for other tanks and watch what they do, how they do it and so on, as now you are truly seeing the skill, those who go to the lower tiers don't have much to fear and won't show you anything, when they are on the other team or on a team that is underskilled and they get killed themselves.


If players of any game is strictly worried about carrying people, then where do any players fit in.  You will always have players that you carry, no matter what level, tier, game, etc.  Remember also they get less of the rewards/xp/credits as well and so they are actually not going to get much from trying to have others carry.  The other issue of course, I am not the only one on a team that might have 0 damage done or no kills.  Sure I can fire some rounds and miss, but that doesn't mean that the shots were good ones and hence excuse that player from the carrying factor.  I don't see other players going after them for being as you call, carriers, that let others do the work.  They simply ignore the chat and if need be ride the coattails/being carried.  I respond because I am letting them know I am here, I am trying and not to blow a gasket just at me only because I spoke up.  I do what I can, where I can and to the best of my ability.  I will never be good enough to avoid the carrying tag, in the way you intend it.  Should I then not play this game at all?  I am not a professional gamer and never will.  I will not have those skills that will garner me things like Top Gun, High Caliber and other awards for the game.  I never pretend that I will get that good or that I am good now.  However people can still be civilized in how they talk to people, otherwise then isn't their attacking/abusing/stalking or trying to nullify the fun factor for that player okay just because they suck and they just wanted to be in the more intense battles.


The players who do attack are the ones that need to take a deep breath and realize, if one person fails, then that 1 person isn't to be blamed for the loss, since (in WoT) there are 15 other players.  If the 15 other players fail, it is still a "Team" loss, not a person wanting to be carried or a person who shouldn't play.  This is a game, everyone should have fun.  No one should be allowed to abuse others just because of the fact that they don't have the exact skills of 90% of the rest of the players.  Since this game is for everyone, then people should try and act the way they would in real life.  I doubt you go up to that new worker who is learning their job and start berating them because the section, group or whatever isn't beating others in terms of applications or whatever processed, checked, etc.  I know that for some reason players in this game sometimes don't understand or don't want to learn to work with others even if they aren't as skilled as them.  To say players shouldn't play where they want is essentially saying this is my game and you should get out of my matches.  I like for the most part the tier vii matches.  Majority of the players don't take everything so deadly seriously as those who pick on those who can't perform as well.  It is easy being a backseat driver/monday morning QB, does it mean that player who died or failed should be abused, no.  This isn't or shouldn't be justification for some of the things I have been under which really is cyber-bulling in its basic form.  I understand the concerns you raise and others have but can't you have fun without worry about what 1 other person is doing.  If there are 16 players, then there are 15 others that you should also be abused if they fail or don't perform a certain way.


Now if that above paragraph means to you that I am blowing you off, I am sorry.  I am not trying to.  I just want to say that the abusive nature of a few players shouldn't be justified by an unwritten rule that says if you can't dominate tiers below then stay out of our matches.  This is just a form of entertainment in which your stats are meaningless outside of the game.  If you are worried you are doing all the work, I don't think one player should be treated in the manners I have seen and isn't that what good players do, they show their skill against others and do the work because they want to win and improve their own skills.  So having someone that you call (not saying you personally) useless, well if they filled their role, it wouldn't matter since they are useless.  It is a team based game that yes, needs everyone to pull their own weight however this isn't some make or break game.  If you are an e-sporter and you make money based on your stats I can see your issues but once again, to pick on one person who speaks up for themselves should not give justification for the kinds of abuse seen.  If the community feels people should play as low as possible till they are good enough for the next tier, I probably would never really leave tier IV or maybe any tier as my skills just aren't going to get to the stage where I am rated highly, no matter how many matches I do in a Tier 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or whatever.  Players who have these issues need to just back off and the community should shun those who go after any player at any tier for the type of online behavior whether WoT or WoW or Everquest or whatever online game/mmo.


So I wish you instead of justifying why it is right for them to attack me because I am either being carried or not up front, just seems counter to whole idea of gaming or playing sports even.  To have fun.  If you are so focused on me, then are you doing your (no not directly attacking you as I am those players that act out in games) job, no, because you are diverting attention to someone else.  The community should always show the best side of the game and have the decor (sp?) to tell those who only attack other players that hey this isn't life or death, there is always the next match.  I also do believe that a skilled team fails, it isn't just one persons fault for not playing the way things are done.  Trust me on this one comment, this kind of abuse isn't limited to my KT, but has been across Tiers 1-8, so back to my comment about then should we quit if we can't dominate in Tier 1 or any tier because we either come skilled or should see that this game has skilled players and we shouldn't play.


I have surprised myself at times in some matches and yes majority of matches I have been disappointed.  However winning and losing and how you take it is part of life and should not change your behavior to others.


Later on you mentioned stats.  Do stats dictate absolute worth?  As pointed out if you only fire 1 shell is that a crime? wanting to be carried? should be abused?  I won't get practice at lower tiers if overskilled players are there as well.  In terms of the MM, obviously that is out of the hands of all players.  Trying to pin blame on 1 or 2, isn't that scapegoating?  Great you did 4000 damage to the enemy and still lost.  Does that mean you should look for whoever didn't contribute enough and blame them?  If one is a true team player they take the lose just as they take a win and don't look for the weakest link and abuse/harass or take away their fun.  Since you might be saying your fun is being taken away, yet because someone isn't good, that they should expect to be the target of toxicity that comes with not winning or winning but wish it had been an easy win.


Note I do not and have not actually spent money on buying any tank that is in the higher tiers (KT remember was just part of a package and is required to do missions, the M10 RBFM or whatever, was a reward for the D-Day event).  I get 14 day rentals on tanks that are tier 7 and 8 as part of the care package.  So I shouldn't use them?  If so then you should complain to WG and Amazon for giving people these items.  Obviously WG saw a need to promote the game via Twitch Users.  However under the current treatment of newer players, will the game get fresh new blood to increase numbers or do you want to chase away members and allow a few to ruin the game future players that any game needs if they want the servers to stay on long.


"Yes you have owned up that you are struggling, but you still refused to take ownership of the fact that the only thing you can change is your own performance/actions. The only thing you can change is you but you are completely obsessed with what other people are doing.... whether they be people you perceive to be seal-clubbing, good players who make mistakes, people in clans, people not playing their tank right, people being nasty in chat, etc."

So not playing right the toys should be taken away and you should be shunned.  If this happens at all tiers, is that acceptable behavior.  When FF was on, is that fair for a player to damage you to the point you are of no good because of hit points and then they intentionally get themselves killed thereby reducing the team by 1 more player.  I take ownership that I need more skill.  Does that mean, as stated before many times, excuse the behavior of others?  Is the issues I brought up acceptable because I am not playing strictly tier 1 matches?  How can I not be aware (obsessed isn't the word I would use) of the toxic chat and behavior?  Why can't I complain when they are doing things that make it hard to play or have fun?  Justifying their actions with me not taking ownership of my issues and only worry about myself?  Isn't that good advice for those who can't act decent?  I have never complained no matter what tier on any other player.  I will even say give the person a break and stuff.  That is how you build a base.  That is how you get new players to stay.  These forums hint at how to retain new players or bring them in, yet when I point out the abuse, I deserve it because of not being skilled at the higher tiers and not taking ownership of my abilities.  One wrong doesn't validate or justify another.  With this strictly being a game, then those who can't handle being in a community and acting accordingly it should be pointed out.


You say ignore, I just wish I could put you in my place for a week, with my skill level.  I think even you would have to say, okay things are being taken too far and too seriously by some of these players.  Yes they are distracting that player and hence preventing them from enjoying the game.  I don't understand why people live and die on stats.  They are just numbers, numbers.  They don't reflect all aspects of a player in a game.  There are other actions that don't have a number or % attached to it.  To bring back the soccer comments, there is no stat that shows how I did as a fullback or d-line.  The only thing that shows is how many goals they scored on your team but it doesn't say 4 goals are because of you, 2 because of both of you and 1 because of someone else.  I still will participate in the tier 7 match with my KT, all I am asking for is to be allowed to play, have fun, learn, and grow my abilities at my pace.  If the matches were for a tournament or your making the cut or not for a reward, then yes I would not and I mean would not play in that match.  However these are random battles, with random skills and at times random tiers and of course random tanks.  If a less skilled player is involved and you lose, you aren't going to beaten over the head with a bat or be told you suck since you have fewer wins or kills or whatever stat you want to measure some by.  I have seen the stats of some of those who go after me and they aren't exactly all great stats.  Some of them don't have a 50% survival.  So there is no justification for accepting the kind of actions and behavior.  It is not okay in the real world and it shouldn't be okay in a game (in which there is nothing at stake)


I had hoped by pointing out issues as a new player who is trying to become another player in the community, that there is some agreement that no matter what I do or how I do, actions like that shouldn't be accepted.  Players who act that way shouldn't be told it is okay because he has a low survival rate or doesn't do enough damage.  I don't think I said their actions are the reason I don't have the skill.  If something you read of mine is viewed that way, that is why I am very wordy about things.  They do impact my ability to have fun and ability to do what I can.


Obviously one thing you missed is the fact that when I do push I am personally attacked because I didn't rack up kills or damage to the enemy.  If I fall back to defend the base as that is being spammed by one or more players I still get treated badly.  If a person sits and says attention to me but doesn't say what they want done, still not justified.  They need to say we need someone of the people we highlighted to go here or go there or do this.  Has communication been reduced to macros and abbreviations, rather than at least saying what and why?  I help a slow Hvy Tank that is going in the same direction as I am yells at me for pushing them (note I always break off pushing when told to or when we are getting too close to an area where my pushing could accidently put them in the line of fire, which means I violated the physics rule then).  There is almost zero response from vets in games that shun those who are acting bad.  Sure those bad people will still do what they are doing and maybe even increase it or feed off of it.  However it shows that the community as a whole doesn't agree with this behavior and lets the player being abused/harassed that this is 1 person and please don't judge the community by that person.  With no attempts to say anything in game it can be viewed as either accepted by the community or they don't care to get involved or of course they know it won't change that bad person.  It will help the person on the other side to know the community isn't like that and we will speak up when it happens but be aware it won't go away.


Saying this in a forum is great but it needs to be shown in the matches where the behavior is happening, even if it won't reduce or change their behavior.  Based loosely on your comments/feedback it is my problem to fix and the players, the community, or whoever has no reason to be supportive.  I have many times spoken up for players in a match that undergo what I go.  I know that I will then add myself to what is happening.  I do that because it is the right thing to do, it is the way to motivate not put down others and it sets a positive environment for people to play and have fun.  Is the NS you might say to someone just patronizing?  Do you really mean it?  That is a form of saying good job even if you know others could have done it.


I am willing to improve but things also need to be addressed as well, this isn't all my fault, and it is important for those in the match to at least combat the behavior of a few bad apples, at least tell the player to leave the other player alone or tell the other person in the game to ignore that person or say you did your best, etc.  The common comment of playing down in lower tiers, yes I will complain when there are people there who deny even at that lower tier a chance to learn and play because then you lose out then whether you play low, med or high tier matches.  I don't know exactly how the ratings and some stats work when overskilled players play in the bottom tiers.  If they know they are better, way better than others, aren't we carrying them so they can train their crews faster, farm credits, pad stats, or simply feed their need to be viewed as a great player?  I have respect for what you say and what feedback you have given me.  I also want to point out that the fault or cause is all because of me and the abuse in game is accepted if you don't go where you belong.  There is blame both ways and both ways should be addressed and treated equally.  If I change to satisfy a handful of players then they might feel this is justification from the community that their behavior is acceptable no matter the reason.  They probably don't visit the forums so they can't be talked to so that leaves just the matches to point out to those few.


I was advised by another player to turn off chat to help reduce the abuse (but it doesn't seem to stop chatting in game).  So I shouldn't play items that are part of a program/loot because I don't deserve to play at the levels with those tanks.  There I say fine, you shouldn't blame me, blame amazon, twitch and WG.  You need to start a thread that goes after WG and say stop bringing in new players with tanks they aren't able to use properly when they join.  Put those rentals off until they achieve a certain stat or tier instead of thrusting them as new players into using or losing.  If they did that then I probably wouldn't even be here chatting about the problems.  I don't see players who are given X number of uses of certain tanks a berating as some of them don't know how to use their tanks.  If I should stop playing the care packages aren't you denying me then the right to use those items and be in this game and saying it is my fault that I was given those tanks and should not use them.


Change is a two way street.  Do you consider their actions as fair or as you deserve it?  Do you feel it is acceptable behavior?  If someone speaks out or post on the forum that they deserve what they get.  I know you mean well and have tried to keep your comments as neutral flavored as possible however you place all the blame for the treatment on me and say the community doesn't need to hear about those people in game causing me to not enjoy myself.  That I shouldn't be allowed to explore all the features of the game.  I posted here and hoped people would offer both suggestions and letting me know that this isn't the community and they when they see some of the more over the top abuse/harassment at least say something.  Is that wrong to ask for that at my current stage?


If I do things in a game that do actually affect the whole team, sure I should be advised.  If a push on a flank fails or lt don't scout or arty doesn't react or any number of things go wrong it isn't one person's fault alone.  Maybe you should harass those who failed to win the flank for being horrible and tell them go back down until they can win or tell a scout that dies while scouting you suck don't play at this level.  So I am not saying I am special, I just want to have fun and have those who do what is unacceptable behavior in real life not be allowed to carry on in a game and bully players that perhaps could use someone to help blunt the actions that go to far.  I think I fired 1 round so far at one of those who did things to me and not to damage them either (this is when FF was on) as then I would be as bad as them and I would be hurting the team as 2 tanks would be fighting each other and not the other 16 enemy players.


the_Deadly_Bulb #45 Posted Today, 05:37 PM


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View Post1ST_AD_Abrams, on Aug 21 2019 - 05:08, said:

MAJOR WARNING:  Bring some strong coffee or drink something with a high dose of caffeine, this post is going to be beyond mammoth in size.



Honestly couldn't be bothered.


If you're going to write a "Russian novel" about your issues with WoT then perhaps its just not for you.

Others have tried to give you advice and pointers, but you have an endless sack of excuses and seem overly concerned with what others may think of you or the way you play.

Don't know what to tell you except, if you really want advice then keep the questions short and concise.

If you want to spray anecdotes and weave a tapestry of excuses then be advised there is nothing to gain in doing so. :honoring:


Its simple really, WoT is a game, its just a game, play it or don't.

If there's nothing but frustration then don't. :great:

MacDaddyMatty #46 Posted Today, 06:17 PM


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I will argue that the game is not anti-new player.

It IS anti-simple player.

It is a complex strategy game, not a FPS.


Just like Panzer Blitz, Starfleet Battles, or Squad Leader - you have to to the work to git gud, or you wont.


Without learning
- the tanks strengths and weaknesses,

- map key points and key terrain,

- where to be in what tank on what map,

- how to read the mini-map,

- when to push, when not to push, when to re-deploy, when to flex

- how to equip tanks and proper training of crews,

- and a dozen other things...


you WILL toil in mediocracy.




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