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So many shots nose dive right into the dirt. wth?


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KRZYBooP #21 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:21

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Howdy! 

 

Some fun Facts that I would like to share about dispersion. Firstly it effects everyone equally, and something that WG implemented with inspiration from real life tanks and the physics that goes into every shot. Changes to dispersion happened back in 9.6 with this fun news article found HERE

 

Here are some pictures showing a before and after of 3K shots where in 9.6 they are distributed more evenly compared to 9.5. 

 

9.5

9.6

 

If every shot in WoT was guaranteed to hit and do damage then there would be no chance at all for a top tier tank to bounce on a lower tank at distance. Here is a clip of it happening in real life.

 

Tank rounds can be deflected by watermelons if they go through enough of them. Just like this. 

Tank rounds wobble in flight in real life where WoT takes much inspiration from, and why shell normalization is a thing.

 

No WoT is not a Tank Simulator and there are some mystical elements that make it an arcade shooter like the shell normalization, or the fact that tracks just slip back on your tank with the push of a button. With that being said, the dispersion and other shooting mechanics while frustrating makes me enjoy the game and having a small chance of " Maybe I am angled enough to bounce that round..... Nope. Back to the garage I go."

 

The closer you are the better chances of you landing a shot, but who wants to be that close.... *Shivers*

 

 



My_Name_Is_Nobody_ #22 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:31

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Kudos, KRZYBoop, appreciated.

 

but what about the JPN meds?(just for instance) Why horrid accuracy? Is it the gun (engineering) or the shooter (meaning me)? Just seems they've tiny guns with horrid aim.

 

Just asking if anyone knows why. Thanks.

 

I trust a decent reason, just would like to know. 


Edited by My_Name_Is_Nobody_, Aug 14 2019 - 04:34.


Tnater #23 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:32

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Sorry KRZY, not buying.  If the game dynamic really imitated actual experience, there wouldn't be BUNCHES of these fails at once.  Read the comments of many of those in this thread, and you will see that the common theme is the STRETCHES of play where these problems occur.  Not random singles, which wouldn't engender this level of complaint....but these stretches of games strung together that implicate the programmers as having mucked up their application of this 'real' trait so it isn't remotely 'real'.  Not buying.

CaptainBussey #24 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:36

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Here is what I don't understand about RNG.

 

The people that argue for it and defend it say it adds a human element..... but isn't humans playing the game the human element needed?



Tnater #25 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:45

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View Postleeuniverse, on Aug 13 2019 - 21:33, said:

 

1. The old formula was better, because it rewarded ACTUAL SKILL, rather than disabled the skills of a portion of the player population.

 

2. LOL no... It was a "gift" to ALL players.  Quality raises ALL boats, this is basic logic, common sense, and science.

Let me clue you in.  A "bent pool cue" doesn't at all affect a good player, but it DOES affect an average or lesser player.

However, when an average or lesser player has a straight pool cue, their performance is greatly improved.  I know this for a fact from experience.

Your argument is completely FALSE.

 

3. I don't complain about other players playing well.  I complain about the crap tanks of this game that make ME not able to perform to my ability, thus getting me killed when it wouldn't if the tank I was playing wasn't an utter POS.

Further, you know another reason I know what I'm saying is true?  Because of Armored Warfare.  When their tanks used to perform well, before they started trying to be like WOT nerfing the crap out of them, guess what, I performed well in the tanks.

This is just ONE night, and I played like this every night I was able to play that mode...  http://imgur.com/a/qh9KC

Again, your argument is completely FALSE...

 

4. I play select mediums that can still perform, and then lights.  So, as long as there are "some" tanks that are still playable in this game, I'll likely keep playing it.  I try to avoid anything else because for example, I can't even play certain heavy's as well as I used to when I was a much worse player.

That's how badly they've nerfed tank performance in this game.  And I'm talking Tank Speeds and Gun Performance aspects were nerfed that made them all unplayable.  This occurred over-night with The Great Physics Nerf and the Gun nerfs.

 

I btw aren't the only one who noticed it, it's why this game has only HALF of the population it used to.


This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^All of this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Spot-on.  This IS the summation of the problem.



Tnater #26 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:50

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Aug 13 2019 - 22:21, said:

Howdy! 

 

Some fun Facts that I would like to share about dispersion. Firstly it effects everyone equally, and something that WG implemented with inspiration from real life tanks and the physics that goes into every shot. Changes to dispersion happened back in 9.6 with this fun news article found HERE

 

Here are some pictures showing a before and after of 3K shots where in 9.6 they are distributed more evenly compared to 9.5. 

 

9.5

9.6

 

If every shot in WoT was guaranteed to hit and do damage then there would be no chance at all for a top tier tank to bounce on a lower tank at distance. Here is a clip of it happening in real life.

 

Tank rounds can be deflected by watermelons if they go through enough of them. Just like this. 

Tank rounds wobble in flight in real life where WoT takes much inspiration from, and why shell normalization is a thing.

 

No WoT is not a Tank Simulator and there are some mystical elements that make it an arcade shooter like the shell normalization, or the fact that tracks just slip back on your tank with the push of a button. With that being said, the dispersion and other shooting mechanics while frustrating makes me enjoy the game and having a small chance of " Maybe I am angled enough to bounce that round..... Nope. Back to the garage I go."

 

The closer you are the better chances of you landing a shot, but who wants to be that close.... *Shivers*

 

 


...and no disrespect, but 3842 battles is thin experience on which to evaluate the 'fun' of randomly missing game after game of bounces, crits, grounders and fliers.  Still not buying.



KRZYBooP #27 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:51

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View PostTnater, on Aug 13 2019 - 21:32, said:

Sorry KRZY, not buying.  If the game dynamic really imitated actual experience, there wouldn't be BUNCHES of these fails at once.  Read the comments of many of those in this thread, and you will see that the common theme is the STRETCHES of play where these problems occur.  Not random singles, which wouldn't engender this level of complaint....but these stretches of games strung together that implicate the programmers as having mucked up their application of this 'real' trait so it isn't remotely 'real'.  Not buying.

 

Because of the Dispersion it depends on what tank was firing, how far it was away, what angle the tank is sitting at, was it moving, how fast, did you have auto aim on, and do you have a replay for us all to look at? 

Dispersion is a game mechanic built into the game which determines the probable chance of a player landing a hit. Keeping in mind while this is happening to your shots, it is also the same for the other team. It might not seem like it when you have 5 guns on you, but if you roll 5 dice chances are they won't all be misses from 5 different angles. 

 

BTW the watermelon armor and wobbly tank round were from the same planet slo mo video. 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions about everything though and just thought I would share some information about the history of the dispersion mechanic and some real life examples. 

 

:) 



YANKEE137 #28 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:52

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What shooting at an EBR is like.

Edited by YANKEE137, Aug 14 2019 - 04:54.


Hellsfog #29 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:52

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leeuniverse, on Aug 13 2019 - 21:33, said:

 

1. The old formula was better, because it rewarded ACTUAL SKILL, rather than disabled the skills of a portion of the player population.

 

2. LOL no... It was a "gift" to ALL players.  Quality raises ALL boats, this is basic logic, common sense, and science.

Let me clue you in.  A "bent pool cue" doesn't at all affect a good player, but it DOES affect an average or lesser player.

However, when an average or lesser player has a straight pool cue, their performance is greatly improved.  I know this for a fact from experience.

Your argument is completely FALSE.

 

3. I don't complain about other players playing well.  I complain about the crap tanks of this game that make ME not able to perform to my ability, thus getting me killed when it wouldn't if the tank I was playing wasn't an utter POS.

Further, you know another reason I know what I'm saying is true?  Because of Armored Warfare.  When their tanks used to perform well, before they started trying to be like WOT nerfing the crap out of them, guess what, I performed well in the tanks.

This is just ONE night, and I played like this every night I was able to play that mode...  http://imgur.com/a/qh9KC

Again, your argument is completely FALSE...

 

4. I play select mediums that can still perform, and then lights.  So, as long as there are "some" tanks that are still playable in this game, I'll likely keep playing it.  I try to avoid anything else because for example, I can't even play certain heavy's as well as I used to when I was a much worse player.

That's how badly they've nerfed tank performance in this game.  And I'm talking Tank Speeds and Gun Performance aspects were nerfed that made them all unplayable.  This occurred over-night with The Great Physics Nerf and the Gun nerfs.

 

I btw aren't the only one who noticed it, it's why this game has only HALF of the population it used to.

 You're deluded. You really are. With the old distribution, thoughtfully provided above,  I could snap shot without a second thought, without waiting for the reticle to close. If that's your definition of skill, then you need to rethink your definition.

 

Shot distribution in this game is not a pool cue. It's a calculation which is entirely out of a players hands so what you are asking for is a straight buff to the ability of better players to exploit vision mechanics, weak spots and distance. Things they are already good at.  If you want to make me better at this game with zero effort on my part, go ahead. I'm not sure the bottom 90% of the player base will be thrilled but hey [edited]'em right?

 

All of your complaints about the problem with heavy tanks only become worse with an accuracy buff and if you can't understand why that is, you should stop posting. You won't but you really should. 

 

Everybody knows that today you think the reason WoT is dying the accuracy distribution and that tomorrow it will be whatever is bothering you that day. So go back to advocating for the Maus to have 9,000 hit points so everyone else can know how wacky your are.  



_73RD_Easting2NDACAV #30 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 04:56

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Sorry the here it is in real life is a arty that a none trained person is using so its BS. and the watermelon thing that's funny as you can see it only deflects after it goes through  a lot of them losing its kinetic energy so that's BS too.

And as far as the redo on the RNG it just went to full rigged number generator in 9.6, putting some fake pics up that anybody can make is not really proving anything, We that are not bought players ( unicrom ) know that as your crew goes up in skills your aim gets better.

So all that you Krazy put in here is WG lip service. 

If as many rounds bounced or ate dirt or ghost in real life as in this game the first world war would still be going on.



Hellsfog #31 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 05:05

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View Post_73RD_Easting2NDACAV, on Aug 13 2019 - 22:56, said:

Sorry the here it is in real life is a arty that a none trained person is using so its BS. and the watermelon thing that's funny as you can see it only deflects after it goes through  a lot of them losing its kinetic energy so that's BS too.

And as far as the redo on the RNG it just went to full rigged number generator in 9.6, putting some fake pics up that anybody can make is not really proving anything, We that are not bought players ( unicrom ) know that as your crew goes up in skills your aim gets better.

So all that you Krazy put in here is WG lip service. 

If as many rounds bounced or ate dirt or ghost in real life as in this game the first world war would still be going on.

 Right there is the part where your crazy leaks out. I do feel bad for that orderly. 



_73RD_Easting2NDACAV #32 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 05:14

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View PostHellsfog, on Aug 13 2019 - 21:05, said:

 Right there is the part where your crazy leaks out. I do feel bad for that orderly. 


And your still showing that you are uneducated. 

Orderly is having fun laughing at you and your attempts at trolling. O and He says he makes 23.32$ a hour but he doesn't expect you to know what people get paid since you have never done it, WF is to strong for you to give up,



KRZYBooP #33 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 05:14

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View PostMy_Name_Is_Nobody_, on Aug 13 2019 - 21:31, said:

Kudos, KRZYBoop, appreciated.

 

but what about the JPN meds?(just for instance) Why horrid accuracy? Is it the gun (engineering) or the shooter (meaning me)? Just seems they've tiny guns with horrid aim.

 

Just asking if anyone knows why. Thanks.

 

I trust a decent reason, just would like to know. 

 

All of the Japanese have horrid Accuracy?

 

Comparing tier V only Japan isn't the worst, but it definitely isn't the best. 

 

I am no developer, but something I noticed is that you can pick two out of three in most games.

 

Pretty much invincible.

Can do all the Damage.

Too Fast for the naked eye.

 

In our game they are broken down even further considering the 500 plus tanks and all the nations that are included in the game. 

 

You may have noticed that WG is currently working toward re-approaching many tanks to give them more distinguished roles in battle. Some changes more welcomed than others, but if you are pay attention to the Super Test posts there are many additions and changes that are aimed to make the game more enjoyable. Many players don't feel that way, but if there is anything you will learn about me is that I am an optimist. 

 



_Holman_ #34 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 05:22

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View PostTnater, on Aug 13 2019 - 21:32, said:

Sorry KRZY, not buying.  If the game dynamic really imitated actual experience, there wouldn't be BUNCHES of these fails at once.  Read the comments of many of those in this thread, and you will see that the common theme is the STRETCHES of play where these problems occur.  Not random singles, which wouldn't engender this level of complaint....but these stretches of games strung together that implicate the programmers as having mucked up their application of this 'real' trait so it isn't remotely 'real'.  Not buying.

Right. IF truly random, the randomness would drill down to individual shots. But the randomness ends when you log in. Either you have a night of predominantly inferior teams, or the rare case where you are predominantly placed on good teams. The same applies to rng. One night the majority of shots pen, the next night nothing pens. And when is the last time you had an 8 win, 7 loss night. Or 8 win, 9 loss night. it is either 5 win, 12 loss nights, or the rare 13 wins, 4 loss night



YANKEE137 #35 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 05:37

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Krazy got to work on that evil laugh some more. Maybe shave your head and wear a Mao jacket. 

BlaqWolf #36 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 05:38

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As long as it hits somewhere in the aiming circle I'm satisfied.
What irritates the F out of me is when I've fully aimed in on something and the shot flies in some random direction tens of meters outside the reticule.

 

View PostKRZYBooP, on Aug 13 2019 - 22:14, said:

 

You may have noticed that WG is currently working toward re-approaching many tanks to give them more distinguished roles in battle. 

 

More distinguished roles... like, what, light tanks?
Out spotted by mediums, outmaneuvered by a car that they simply can't shoot (even if that car is not supposed to win a straight up fight, it always does because the opposing light can't aim and try to maneuver at the same time.  All the car does is autolock and hits every time).
Light tanks have been relegated to back burner in a big way.  They need a true role, more than just 'maintaining camoflage while moving'.
Like, give them *all* the smartlock that the cars have (which would make them scaaaaary OP, which is the problem with the cars).
Or, give all light tanks (except the cars, which have their own very special, very niche role) the ability to ignore the spotting reduction caused by soft cover within 50 (or 100) meters.
Or give all light tanks six sense with a zero second delay as a built in function.

Reduce the view range on mediums and heavies so that light tanks actually have a role.  Currently they're only late battle harassment, except for the cars.

That looks like mobile artillery piece in direct fire mode... I would expect it's shot accuracy to suck.

 



leeuniverse #37 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 05:40

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Aug 13 2019 - 20:51, said:

 

Because of the Dispersion it depends on what tank was firing, how far it was away, what angle the tank is sitting at, was it moving, how fast, did you have auto aim on, and do you have a replay for us all to look at? 

Dispersion is a game mechanic built into the game which determines the probable chance of a player landing a hit. Keeping in mind while this is happening to your shots, it is also the same for the other team. It might not seem like it when you have 5 guns on you, but if you roll 5 dice chances are they won't all be misses from 5 different angles. 

 

BTW the watermelon armor and wobbly tank round were from the same planet slo mo video. 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions about everything though and just thought I would share some information about the history of the dispersion mechanic and some real life examples. 

 

:) 

 

We know why you all did it, the problem is, is this is a GAME.... NOT a "Simulator".

 

All you did was MAKE A WORSE GAME... not better.  You intentionally made the game "unenjoyable".

That also goes for:

- Stun

- The Great Physics Nerf which slowed down all tanks of the game, as well as added the **** you features like flipping over when shouldn't, little bumps, driving up a rock when just trying to turn, not able to drive straight into a bush and it being super complicated, etc.  80% of my garage became unplayable crap overnight with the physics nerf and first gun nerfing.

- Then, of course, the gun nerfs.

 

All of these things combined with the already existing problems with the game, and some other things like that one competition mode that you got rid of, caused you to lose HALF of your player base.

That's not good business...



pickpocket293 #38 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 05:54

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I agree with some of the above comments-- just because it happens in real life doesn't mean it makes for good gameplay. It's incredibly frustrating when a round that SHOULD hit absolutely doesn't, repeatedly. You can point to real life and say "that happens with watermelons" and stuff, but that doesn't make the game less frustrating when it happens.

 

 

Also, if we're talking about realism, how about the Tiger 2 turret top gets the 42mm of thickness that it historically had? You can't claim realism is the reason something is the way it is in some cases, then ignore it for other cases within the same game.



BlaqWolf #39 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 06:16

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View PostOXEN_HeavyGUN, on Aug 13 2019 - 23:13, said:

the shooting { randomly } all over the aim is why wot got DUMPED out of e-sports. 

they got kicked because of their rampant PTW elements.  After the chrystlerK fiasco, then the defender/252U, ect E-sports wanted nothing more to do with them.



KRZYBooP #40 Posted Aug 14 2019 - 06:20

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View Postleeuniverse, on Aug 13 2019 - 22:40, said:

 

We know why you all did it, the problem is, is this is a GAME.... NOT a "Simulator".

 

All you did was MAKE A WORSE GAME... not better.  You intentionally made the game "unenjoyable".

That also goes for:

- Stun

- The Great Physics Nerf which slowed down all tanks of the game, as well as added the **** you features like flipping over when shouldn't, little bumps, driving up a rock when just trying to turn, not able to drive straight into a bush and it being super complicated, etc.  80% of my garage became unplayable crap overnight with the physics nerf and first gun nerfing.

- Then, of course, the gun nerfs.

 

All of these things combined with the already existing problems with the game, and some other things like that one competition mode that you got rid of, caused you to lose HALF of your player base.

That's not good business...

 

Physics nerf to the Vehicles was due to the Game engine changing, and wasn't intentional.
Players wanted more maps/ maps to be brought back, but that wasn't easily completed with the previous engine. So with the 1.0 update a new engine was introduced with updated graphics and more opportunities to edit, add and reintroduce older maps to the game. An unfortunate side effect is something that wasn't foreseen, and was unintentional which our developers are aware of. I don't have a timeline on or ETA on this issue, but can direct you to attend one of our many Developer AMA's where they are more than happy to answer player questions. 

 

The other existing problems is a vague statement which I would ask to be more specific please. I would also ask to elaborate on the Gun Nerf's please. 

 

Ranked mode isn't 100% gone and WG is still working on a viable alternative to deliver to players, so it's not technically gone yet, and just undergoing changes. 

 

View PostCaptainBussey, on Aug 13 2019 - 21:36, said:

Here is what I don't understand about RNG.

 

The people that argue for it and defend it say it adds a human element..... but isn't humans playing the game the human element needed?

 

RNG is not the human element of firing a tank round. You are the gunner and get to decide when and where you shoot. RNG is the Game mechanic of mimicking to an extent the rifling of the gun as the round leaves, the penetration value that varies depending  on distance, and the normalization is a correction that can go either direction. It can either correct 5ish degrees and make a bounce a hit or make a hit a bounce., but only if the angle it lands at is less than 70 degrees. This is how I understand the mechanics at least from our Wiki found HERE

 

The randomness is applied to Dispersion, Penetration and Damage. Everything else is constant. Granted the three most important parts are Random, but if this game is all about using team work and anything you can to mitigate the negatives. No one likes to miss, but 5 tank shots from various angles is way better than one from only one angle.

 

The Human element in my opinion is the, " Here are 14 people of varying skill levels that you have never met before and you have to go complete a common goal with them. Wait why are they all going up the 1 line. Team what about the Flank? Don't leave me...... Ohhhhh the whole enemy team is behind the hill I chose to spot at..... Perfect." 

You ever watch a team sports movie where they have a montage of them learning to play as a team? That happens everytime you hit battle, but without the montage and all the sweet Christmas I am going to back to the garage.






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