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Why the 60TP isnt more popular

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TheHQ #1 Posted Aug 15 2019 - 07:37

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40 TP

 

thats it. thats the only reason why. I am sure that WG knows that it is the worst preforming tier 6 medium tank.

But they dont care. Its nothing more than a gold sink for them when we convert free exp to get past the tank out of frustration.

 

 

thanks WG

 

fk the 40TP



JakeTheMystic #2 Posted Aug 15 2019 - 07:55

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The 60TP isnt popular because its not good, not because the line is bad.

 

Its essentially the E100 with better armor but just a worse 705A, which just makes it bad since t he 705A is already pretty meh. 



bilzbobaggins #3 Posted Aug 15 2019 - 08:29

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60tp=prem HEAT rounds.   Thats why makes me mad.

An_old_slow_guy #4 Posted Aug 15 2019 - 08:45

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60TP is not a bad T10 heavy just nothing to really crow about either.  Combined with the premium 50TP and you have a good crew training pair.  Plenty of armor, usually requires enemy to use up gold rds to pen, slow reloading gun with only about 600 on average alpha,  the vehicle is slow, but not as slow as the Maus, E-100, Type-5, JPE-100, IS-4, probably about the same speed as the Obj 705A.  The 60TP will usually carry most mixed tier battles if played competently. Get some combat reserves and free XP your way around that 40TP. 

Lucid_Nonsense_1 #5 Posted Aug 15 2019 - 09:15

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The 40TP is pretty awful, BUT, isn't as bad as people think; got an 8 kill game in mine. The trick is to use the premium petrol to get the engine power up (it also increases turret rotation, and by extension of Hp/t, the traverse, making the tank acceptably nimble. Not nimble, but acceptably so.) The top gun has good alpha and ok dpm for the tier, good depression and (unreliable) but decent armour when working the ridgeline. The biggest problem is the speed, you are committed to one front and can't relocate easily - you will have lots of epic last stands, but at least can go down swinging. Also, people really underestimate it. So, is it a deliberate xp sink, yes - but not as much as the middle gun on 53TP. The Polish line is just not fun to grind, but, tier 7 is ok, tier 8 is awesome - especially in frontline - and... I haven't made it any further as I'm on a light tank kick atm. But, the biggest complaint I heard about 60TP is lowish pen and vulnerable turret ring. Some people seem to love it. Tier 8 is definitely the hidden gem, it's a better IS-3 style heavium. 

Edited by Lucid_Nonsense_1, Aug 15 2019 - 09:19.


thandiflight #6 Posted Aug 15 2019 - 10:24

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Could be worse, could be a British Light Tank

RHeadshot #7 Posted Aug 15 2019 - 10:42

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Premiums were supposed to suck but give you a lot of credits.  WG lost its way a long time ago.

YANKEE137 #8 Posted Aug 15 2019 - 14:34

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I looked at the Polish line and dove right in-to the Italian one. 

General_Greg101 #9 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 20:08

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     The 60TP isn't too popular I feel, because it is in competition with the E100, and the 60TP is not all that much better (it may be equal, or dare say worse). I remember when the 60TP first came out that everyone was saying it would replace the E 100, but so far it hasn't. The 60TP is kind of the oddball tank that is probably pretty decent, but it's always going to be the 2nd choice for new, and returning players when compared to the E100 simply, because the E100 has been around longer, and is more known. 



DerJager #10 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 01:07

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View PostGeneral_Greg101, on Aug 17 2019 - 11:08, said:

     The 60TP isn't too popular I feel, because it is in competition with the E100, and the 60TP is not all that much better (it may be equal, or dare say worse). I remember when the 60TP first came out that everyone was saying it would replace the E 100, but so far it hasn't. The 60TP is kind of the oddball tank that is probably pretty decent, but it's always going to be the 2nd choice for new, and returning players when compared to the E100 simply, because the E100 has been around longer, and is more known. 

There's no way it can be worse than the E100.

 

LFP weak spot, whole-[edited]turret weak spot, return roller weak spot.

 

The only bit of armor that can be considered objectively good on that tank is the glacis plate.

 

Coupled with a shotgun like 150mm, lack of pen on standard rounds, low MV, only fair penetration on the HEAT round, and horrible penetration on the HE rounds....



RC_1140 #11 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 03:03

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60TP is amazing. It has actual armor unlike the E100. -10 gun depression with good turret armor is cool. Really the only bad thing is the substandard heat pen of 217 (everything else has 330-340).

Altwar #12 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 04:06

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I'm playing the 40 TP right now and am finding it enjoyable.  Its pretty slow but hits kind of hard, so I play it like a heavy, similar to the VK 36.01.  And while I have a quarter million free XP at the ready, and another 1.5 million I can convert, I don't see any reason to.    I'm in no hurry to get to the next tank or finish the line, as I've most lines finished and more than enough high tier tanks sitting around as it is. 

 

 Anyway, if you are impatient to get past it OP, do what you need to do but IMO there is no gold sink here.



General_Greg101 #13 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 06:15

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View PostDerJager, on Aug 17 2019 - 16:07, said:

There's no way it can be worse than the E100.

 

LFP weak spot, whole-[edited]turret weak spot, return roller weak spot.

 

The only bit of armor that can be considered objectively good on that tank is the glacis plate.

 

Coupled with a shotgun like 150mm, lack of pen on standard rounds, low MV, only fair penetration on the HEAT round, and horrible penetration on the HE rounds....

 

Everything you pointed out is exactly the same story on the 60TP. The face of the turret on the 60TP is better, since it's not flat, however, the plate above the gun (just like the IS-3) can be over matched by anything bigger than 150mm. There's the front drivers hatch on the UP, and the LP of the is just as butter as the E100. Then there's those ridiculous 70mm plates on the sides of the UP, which is a total weak spot when side scraping. 

 

The only advantage the 60TP really has over the E100 in terms of the gun is the slightly larger caliber, and shell velocity. Other than that the guns are damn near equal save that the E100 pulled ahead in the most important category: HEAT penetration our lord, and savior.

 

The 60TP isn't bad. It's not inferior, but nor is it better than the E100. So it's wrong to call it worse, but it's not better either.

    

 

View PostRC_1140, on Aug 17 2019 - 18:03, said:

60TP is amazing. It has actual armor unlike the E100. 

 

The E100 has armor it just requires skill to use. The 60TP maybe better in the armor category simply, because it doesn't require too much work where as angling the E100's armor can almost be an art form in itself, but when done properly can be just as strong if not better in some areas. 

 



RC_1140 #14 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 19:16

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View PostGeneral_Greg101, on Aug 17 2019 - 21:15, said:

 

Everything you pointed out is exactly the same story on the 60TP. The face of the turret on the 60TP is better, since it's not flat, however, the plate above the gun (just like the IS-3) can be over matched by anything bigger than 150mm. There's the front drivers hatch on the UP, and the LP of the is just as butter as the E100. Then there's those ridiculous 70mm plates on the sides of the UP, which is a total weak spot when side scraping. 

 

The only advantage the 60TP really has over the E100 in terms of the gun is the slightly larger caliber, and shell velocity. Other than that the guns are damn near equal save that the E100 pulled ahead in the most important category: HEAT penetration our lord, and savior.

 

The 60TP isn't bad. It's not inferior, but nor is it better than the E100. So it's wrong to call it worse, but it's not better either.

    

 

 

The E100 has armor it just requires skill to use. The 60TP maybe better in the armor category simply, because it doesn't require too much work where as angling the E100's armor can almost be an art form in itself, but when done properly can be just as strong if not better in some areas. 

 

Ignoring the massive lower plate which is bigger than the 60TP's weak spots, you can't angle to E100's turret in such a way that you can't pen it. Best you can do vs 340 HEAT is have 50-55% chance of pen or 100% on the corner (which isn't that hard to hit). Plus every time you want to shoot they have around 80% chance to pen. That's not even looking at t10 tds.

 

On the 60TP you can snipe the hatch (if its showing) or try to hit the turret ring when it goes to shoot. And yes, the HEAT is bad. But its still quite usable. The turret roof can only be overmatched by the 705 or tds, and the 705 is shorter so good luck seeing it. 



nrnstraswa #15 Posted Aug 19 2019 - 17:46

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Precisely why WG needs to revisit the line and make tweaks. Have any of the line seen any changes since their release on the live server?

DerJager #16 Posted Aug 20 2019 - 02:56

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View PostGeneral_Greg101, on Aug 17 2019 - 21:15, said:

 

Everything you pointed out is exactly the same story on the 60TP. The face of the turret on the 60TP is better, since it's not flat, however, the plate above the gun (just like the IS-3) can be over matched by anything bigger than 150mm. There's the front drivers hatch on the UP, and the LP of the is just as butter as the E100. Then there's those ridiculous 70mm plates on the sides of the UP, which is a total weak spot when side scraping. 

 

The only advantage the 60TP really has over the E100 in terms of the gun is the slightly larger caliber, and shell velocity. Other than that the guns are damn near equal save that the E100 pulled ahead in the most important category: HEAT penetration our lord, and savior.

 

The 60TP isn't bad. It's not inferior, but nor is it better than the E100. So it's wrong to call it worse, but it's not better either.

    

 

 

The E100 has armor it just requires skill to use. The 60TP maybe better in the armor category simply, because it doesn't require too much work where as angling the E100's armor can almost be an art form in itself, but when done properly can be just as strong if not better in some areas. 

 

 

That leaves the E100 (assuming it can even hit), the 7201K, 705A, and the 60TP as heavy tanks that can pen the turret roof. Clearly the list expands including TD's, however they also tend to be able to lolpen an E100 regardless of angling, so I'd say it evens out.

 

However in general the 60tp has a better turret.

 

 

Its also more maneuverable, smaller (which is a huge advantage factoring that the LFP necessarily scales with the size of the tank.

 

Hell the E100 LFP is probably about the same total area as the Obj 430U's entire hull. 



RC_1140 #17 Posted Aug 20 2019 - 17:18

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View PostDerJager, on Aug 19 2019 - 17:56, said:

 

That leaves the E100 (assuming it can even hit), the 7201K, 705A, and the 60TP as heavy tanks that can pen the turret roof. Clearly the list expands including TD's, however they also tend to be able to lolpen an E100 regardless of angling, so I'd say it evens out.

 

However in general the 60tp has a better turret.

 

 

Its also more maneuverable, smaller (which is a huge advantage factoring that the LFP necessarily scales with the size of the tank.

 

Hell the E100 LFP is probably about the same total area as the Obj 430U's entire hull. 

150mm guns can't overmatch the roof, you need at least 151 (so 152mm+). If I remember its just the 705 and something like 9 tds. 



DerJager #18 Posted Aug 21 2019 - 03:34

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View PostRC_1140, on Aug 20 2019 - 08:18, said:

150mm guns can't overmatch the roof, you need at least 151 (so 152mm+). If I remember its just the 705 and something like 9 tds. 

Even more illustrative of my point then.

 

Though I believe triple overmatch is caliber =/> 3x armor thickness, and (unless I'm misremembering the armor values) therefore 150mm caliber will overmatch.

 

However thinking on it, I forgot German "150mm" is 149.2mm, and thus will not overmatch regardless.

 

So again the heavies that can overmatch are the 60TP, Obj 705A, and 13 TD's that can overmatch, however 4 also have LOLpen and could probably just yeet a well-aimed shell through the turret regardless. 



General_Greg101 #19 Posted Aug 22 2019 - 02:28

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View PostRC_1140, on Aug 18 2019 - 10:16, said:

Ignoring the massive lower plate which is bigger than the 60TP's weak spots, you can't angle to E100's turret in such a way that you can't pen it. Best you can do vs 340 HEAT is have 50-55% chance of pen or 100% on the corner (which isn't that hard to hit). Plus every time you want to shoot they have around 80% chance to pen. That's not even looking at t10 tds.

 

On the 60TP you can snipe the hatch (if its showing) or try to hit the turret ring when it goes to shoot. And yes, the HEAT is bad. But its still quite usable. The turret roof can only be overmatched by the 705 or tds, and the 705 is shorter so good luck seeing it. 

 

     Well, yes the E100 will have some spots where it can be penned, even when angled, and I agree it's very vulnerable when shooting. The 60TP will perform better in hull down, but I wouldn't fully count the E100 out yet. Weak spots the E100 turret may have, but a big part of the E100's turret is jinking. Not that it's the end all defense in the face of the E100's turret weak spots, but it works to some level, and is one of the few ways the E100 can bounce some of the higher pen gold. Majority of the time if you don't hit exactly where your aiming when shooting at the E100 it will bounce. 

 

The roof of the 60TP isn't game breaking, but it's something the E100 doesn't have to worry about (there is the front deck of course on the E100 at 40mm, but it's flat with the hull). The 60TP firing from higher ground it'd be almost impossible to hit the roof, but on lower ground, or level ground it's entirely possible. The 50mm plate goes from the top of the gun to the middle of the turret.  

 

View PostDerJager, on Aug 19 2019 - 17:56, said:

 

That leaves the E100 (assuming it can even hit), the 7201K, 705A, and the 60TP as heavy tanks that can pen the turret roof. Clearly the list expands including TD's, however they also tend to be able to lolpen an E100 regardless of angling, so I'd say it evens out.

 

However in general the 60tp has a better turret.

 

 

Its also more maneuverable, smaller (which is a huge advantage factoring that the LFP necessarily scales with the size of the tank.

 

Hell the E100 LFP is probably about the same total area as the Obj 430U's entire hull. 

 

The TDs (especially with gold) won't struggle too hard to pen the E100, but it is possible to bounce still. The height of the 60TP although is an advantage over the the E100 it is also, a disadvantage at the same time. Height really helps with over match since most of the thin armor zones are the engine deck, turret roof etc. Another point is the E100 has more ammunition than the 60TP by 20 shells. If you carry too much HEAT in the 60TP you could run out of AP, and not be able to over match or vice versa.   

 

Also, the E100s LP is big, but the 60TP's LP isn't exactly tougher. I wouldn't say it's a complete weak spot, but it's only 110mm, and when angled to bounce you could go through the front wheel or that tumor drivers hatch (which comes in 3 sections to be penned from all angles). The LP of the 60TP does offer more protection from standard compared to the E100, but tier VIII gold, and above will go through both LPs on both tanks no problem.  

 

 

 

 



RC_1140 #20 Posted Aug 22 2019 - 04:16

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View PostDerJager, on Aug 20 2019 - 18:34, said:

Even more illustrative of my point then.

 

Though I believe triple overmatch is caliber =/> 3x armor thickness, and (unless I'm misremembering the armor values) therefore 150mm caliber will overmatch.

 

However thinking on it, I forgot German "150mm" is 149.2mm, and thus will not overmatch regardless.

 

So again the heavies that can overmatch are the 60TP, Obj 705A, and 13 TD's that can overmatch, however 4 also have LOLpen and could probably just yeet a well-aimed shell through the turret regardless. 

Its greater than only, which is why 120mm guns can't overmatch the STRV. So just the shorter 705 can do it. The 9 tds that can do it all have 80-90% chance to pen the e100's turret at the best possible angle, so I will gladly take a small weakspot over that.

View PostGeneral_Greg101, on Aug 21 2019 - 17:28, said:

 

     Well, yes the E100 will have some spots where it can be penned, even when angled, and I agree it's very vulnerable when shooting. The 60TP will perform better in hull down, but I wouldn't fully count the E100 out yet. Weak spots the E100 turret may have, but a big part of the E100's turret is jinking. Not that it's the end all defense in the face of the E100's turret weak spots, but it works to some level, and is one of the few ways the E100 can bounce some of the higher pen gold. Majority of the time if you don't hit exactly where your aiming when shooting at the E100 it will bounce. 

 

The roof of the 60TP isn't game breaking, but it's something the E100 doesn't have to worry about (there is the front deck of course on the E100 at 40mm, but it's flat with the hull). The 60TP firing from higher ground it'd be almost impossible to hit the roof, but on lower ground, or level ground it's entirely possible. The 50mm plate goes from the top of the gun to the middle of the turret.  

 

 

The TDs (especially with gold) won't struggle too hard to pen the E100, but it is possible to bounce still. The height of the 60TP although is an advantage over the the E100 it is also, a disadvantage at the same time. Height really helps with over match since most of the thin armor zones are the engine deck, turret roof etc. Another point is the E100 has more ammunition than the 60TP by 20 shells. If you carry too much HEAT in the 60TP you could run out of AP, and not be able to over match or vice versa.   

 

Also, the E100s LP is big, but the 60TP's LP isn't exactly tougher. I wouldn't say it's a complete weak spot, but it's only 110mm, and when angled to bounce you could go through the front wheel or that tumor drivers hatch (which comes in 3 sections to be penned from all angles). The LP of the 60TP does offer more protection from standard compared to the E100, but tier VIII gold, and above will go through both LPs on both tanks no problem.  

 

 

 

 

Pretty much the E100 has better pen, and is worse in every other way. When sidescraping a Lowe has 56-80% chance of penning the E100's turret face (angled and unangled), but at most 70% chance on the 60tp if it snipes the turret ring when the 60tp fires, if it can't hit at that point it has 36% chance at most. 


Edited by RC_1140, Aug 22 2019 - 04:19.





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