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New PC build with Optane - memory management questions

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BlackFive #1 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 16:28

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My long serving Win 7 gaming rig has died.  A failing PSU fried the mobo and now she's gone.

 ~ F ~

 

Given that, I am now forced to build a Win 10 rig.  I'm thinking of including an Intel Optane module.

* My question focuses on how Windows 10 makes use of the new technology / architecture.  Specifically it's focused on how to avoid problems I experienced with the last build. 

Technical explanation:

Way back when I built this system SSDs were new and expensive.  I bought an 80 GB Intel ssd to load only the OS and used my fast 1TB HDD for programs.  With Win 7 pro taking up 47 GB, I presumed this set up would give me plenty of overhead for an efficient system. 

As things go, over the years the SSD filled up, largely due to hyberfil sys and page files and the Microsoft forced preloading of win 10 and updates etc.  Thus, along with the (unknown at the time) struggling mobo - the system was plagued by a critically full 'C' drive that required careful management.

I want to avoid similar issues with the new build. 

So, will those of you familiar with how Win 10 interacts with the new architecture - I. E. How it manages memory, and the hyberfil / page file (etc) crap of win 10 given different architectures please advise me on my prospective build? 

 

Current thoughts:

Intel I-9 / compatible mobo

Optane (size? ) 

16 GB RAM

SSD

 

When you build a system with an Optane module, how do you tell Windows how to use it properly? 

Thanks! 

Will be using the current rigs' GPU + other stuff 

 

Related question - are discrete sound cards still worthwhile or are mobo onboard options finally up to snuff? 



BlackFive #2 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 16:52

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Also interested in discussing whether Optane is even a good fit for a desktop PC and whether to just skip for a larger SSD.

 

Is partitioning even still a thing these days? 



TheManFromKekistan #3 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 16:54

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Optane was an aftermarket attempt to increase hdd performance through the use of a secondary memory module that acted similar to a ram disk in that it would cache the most used data from your hdd and so speed up access. Unless you are going to use old fashioned platter drives in this new build then there isn't really any point as modern sata ssd and m2 nvme drives are already blistering fast on both reads and writes. As to the i9 that's way overkill for a gaming system unless you have professional grade software you use for editing and such so a cheaper i5 or even modern quad core i3 is all you need for up to 4k gaming as long as your gpu is up to snuff.

 

This is right at $500 and you can plug in your gpu and other items and off you go.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZM4hsZ

 

As you can see the $90 i3 scales just as well in gaming as the more expensive cpu.

 


Edited by TheManFromKekistan, Aug 17 2019 - 17:08.


rokinamerica #4 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 17:00

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Laptop or desktop? On my desktop I turn off hibernate and run a static page file (800 mb). I use a program called O&O Shutup to stop windows from automatically doing any updates and kill telemetry. My windows 10 file after 2 years is 17.2 GB. I also use classic shell so my win 10 looks and works just like windows 7. I do the same on my laptop but I don’t use it on battery, always plugged in. I have a 500GB SSD that I put my programs on and all my data and music is on a large hard drive. Don’t know if this helps but I have been running my setups like this for years, since my first SSD in about 2010. 

ArmorStorm #5 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 17:06

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I always stay away from new tech.  I prefer the “rusting edge of technology”.  A guy I know always buys the highest end MB and processor, GPU, highest power PSU...whatever.  ALWAYS has compatibility issues.  Memory isn’t compatible, processor won’t over lock correctly...always something.  

I buy standard MBs and processors, can run mixed speed ram, different brands, whatever and have no issues ever.  I get over 90% of his performance for half the price and 2% of his issues.  

 

Get a big SSD.  Cheap, proven, simple. 



BlackFive #6 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 17:46

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Thought provoking answers so far - thanks for the notes!

 

 

@ TheMan: the comp is actually an all-in-one home business and gaming box... But I will look deeper into whether I need the i9 or if I can get away with the 7.

 

 



PTwr #7 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 18:14

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16GB RAM is more than enough for WoT. No need for fancy shmancy Optane.

Minimized WoT (no GPU usage when minimized), fattie Chrome with 20 tabs, Firefox streaming Stargate, modest RAMdisk, running Civ5 game, and bunch of minor stuff in Windows 10 with disabled bloatware that was last restarted about a month ago looks like that:

 

Intel Optane is just a fancy cache, you won't need it if you got "enough" RAM. Interestingly it appears to be more or less worthless when building new PC, because new 16GB Optane price is about same as 16GB RAM, so you might as well just start with 2x8GB and later on add second pair if you'll feel a need for more living space.

 

Even my old, aircooled and yet to be overclocked, i7-6700k is overkill for WoT, you'll be fine with some beefy i5. i7's are for IT peps who require HyperV and other weird technologies (and for kids drolling over benchmark result). You might, however, consider AMD, rather than Intel, if you want big bang for modest buck as Intel game performance per dollar seems to be slipping in recent years.

 

And if you wonder how it looks in battle and movie playing:

Spoiler

 


Edited by PTwr, Aug 17 2019 - 18:51.


Dadrox #8 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 20:50

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With at least 16GB RAM you can turn the page file and hyberfil off to stop the drive churning they create and run much faster.  I put 64GB into my gamer so I could copy entire games to a a 48GB RAMdisk and run entirely from memory.

I use multiple M.2 SSDs (6x faster than Sata SSDs) with one dedicated to the OS and the rest to a multitude of games, usenet, readers, and utilities.  All the SSDs are 1 or 2 TB and I don't have to "manage" the space on the OS drive.

Lots of RAM and not using Mechanical drives will spoil you rotten.

Forget the Optane.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Dadrox, Aug 17 2019 - 20:55.


TheManFromKekistan #9 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 22:57

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View PostBlackFive, on Aug 17 2019 - 11:46, said:

@ TheMan: the comp is actually an all-in-one home business and gaming box... But I will look deeper into whether I need the i9 or if I can get away with the 7.

 

Home business software can run on anything for the most part so gaming will be your focus. What is your budget as that will determine what level of cpu you get. If you have loads of cash to spend then yeah get the i9 and all the trimmings but if you don't then getting a cheaper cpu can allow for more of the budget to be used for upgraded storage and memory etc.



Klaatu_Nicto #10 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 00:31

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 I went with an i5 so I could get a 960GB SSD and stay on budget. The SSD was one of the best upgrades since going from 5 1/2 inch floppies to a HD.

 

According to the WOT formula   

 

(test score)/166.66=215fps

 

Spoiler

 



BlackFive #11 Posted Aug 19 2019 - 00:42

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After quite a bit of research... It seems my inclination was due to 'thinking about PC builds with an old-school mindset'

(read: compensating for hardware /software limitations through creative paring of hardware) . 

 

Turns out what I really want is the even older-school (simple) build plan of CPU / Mobo / RAM / Drive (where drive is one of the new on-board NVMe modules

 

And that's what I've done.  In fact I've walked completely away from Intel with this build and have bought a Ryzen 2700X, Gigabyte X470 Aorus, 16 GB of new RAM, and a 1TB Samsung Evo...

Presuming I take care of it - this should be able to make it several years before I need to upgrade again. 

 

Thanks for the notes fellers! 



TheManFromKekistan #12 Posted Aug 19 2019 - 07:48

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View PostBlackFive, on Aug 18 2019 - 18:42, said:

After quite a bit of research... It seems my inclination was due to 'thinking about PC builds with an old-school mindset'

(read: compensating for hardware /software limitations through creative paring of hardware) . 

 

Turns out what I really want is the even older-school (simple) build plan of CPU / Mobo / RAM / Drive (where drive is one of the new on-board NVMe modules

 

And that's what I've done.  In fact I've walked completely away from Intel with this build and have bought a Ryzen 2700X, Gigabyte X470 Aorus, 16 GB of new RAM, and a 1TB Samsung Evo...

Presuming I take care of it - this should be able to make it several years before I need to upgrade again. 

 

Thanks for the notes fellers! 

 

Too late to make any difference but that $90 i3 9100f has identical gaming performance to that $240 ryzen 7 2700x at all resolutions and quality settings. Amd still can't touch intel on gaming performance especially on cost. Amd is still better if you need multiple cores for professional software over say an i7 or especially an i9 but that is about its only perk. Saying that you shouldn't have any real issues unless its a game that doesn't like more than four cores like some of the battlefield and assassins creed games which can have funky performance hits on six core or higher cpu.



BlackFive #13 Posted Aug 19 2019 - 18:57

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View PostTheManFromKekistan, on Aug 19 2019 - 07:48, said:

 

Too late to make any difference but that $90 i3 9100f has identical gaming performance to that $240 ryzen 7 2700x at all resolutions and quality settings. Amd still can't touch intel on gaming performance especially on cost. Amd is still better if you need multiple cores for professional software over say an i7 or especially an i9 but that is about its only perk. Saying that you shouldn't have any real issues unless its a game that doesn't like more than four cores like some of the battlefield and assassins creed games which can have funky performance hits on six core or higher cpu.

I had some quibbles along those lines myself. But after reading a lot on TechReport, Anandtech and others I think the build I'm working on should be the right mix of stuff for the cost. 

Time will of course tell! 

Any way - really appreciate the feedback from everyone! 



BlackFive #14 Posted Aug 20 2019 - 01:49

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Bleah.  Heat sink showed up with dents and a bunch of bent tines.  Fan loose in the box.  Had to send it back JIK 

TheManFromKekistan #15 Posted Aug 20 2019 - 11:31

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View PostBlackFive, on Aug 19 2019 - 12:57, said:

I had some quibbles along those lines myself. But after reading a lot on TechReport, Anandtech and others I think the build I'm working on should be the right mix of stuff for the cost. 

Time will of course tell! 

Any way - really appreciate the feedback from everyone! 

 

Oh there isn't anything wrong per say with getting the 2700x for gaming as its one of the few amd cpu that can keep up with an intel and of course it will rock if you decide to get into audio and video encoding or production. I'm assuming you are running 1080p so it will last you for a good long while as near any cpu and gpu can run games well at that resolution.






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