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The 'grind' seems silly


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MissCreant #1 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 17:54

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So I am about 900 battles in and looked at my tanks.

 

MS-1 --> 179 battles, crew at 90% which is what like half way there to 100%??

T-26 --> 132 battles, crew at 84%

T-46 --> love this tank but 208 battles, 99% crew.

T-28 --> 59 battles, crew at 0% - - 91% on the way to start working on first skill.

others lower battle counts so sticking with the above.  They haven't started their first skill work either.

 

I am not against grinding but isn't this a bit excessive?  In order to get first skill in the MS-1 I need like 350 battles?  maybe 200 more in the T-26?

 

It seems a bit silly.



Ken_McGuire #2 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 18:11

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One of the most important things I did not understand at all when I started the game was how important it is to have a good crew in those tanks. And as I continue to play, what I consider a "good" crew has skyrocketed.

 

And yes, even going from a 75% crew to a 100% crew takes a lot of battles at the lower tiers. Going for crew skills takes even longer. This is one reason why many of us have recommended speeding through the low tiers and then hanging out at mid-tiers for a while to learn the game and work on crews.

 

While I have kept a few low tier tech tree tanks, personally I very rarely play them because I no longer really like low tier gameplay, and when I dip into low tiers, I would rather use a premium where I can bring a good crew...

 

Since I was a beginner, Wargaming has given out a fair number of Personal Reserve boosters - including some quite good crew training ones. And recently they have introduced crew books. Of course crew books require 100% crews and more silver than most people starting the game can afford - or even imagine, and so this welcome addition is useless to those who need it the most.

 

Yeah, crew grinding really sucks at low tiers. It isn't even the greatest at higher tiers. But it does get better.



MissCreant #3 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 18:22

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That's good to know because I thought it would get worse, not better.  Like unlocking tanks.

Silversound #4 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 18:32

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It's Wot.

 

Everything is a grind, or for sale and way overpriced.



PTwr #5 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 19:31

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https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Crew

 

XP requirements per % is not linear:

There is bunch of calculators to do the math for you, for example: http://www.planetwot.com/Crewxp/

Getting crew from 50% to 100% takes some 95k xp, finishing first skill after that takes about 200k. It will take a while in low tiers and without premium stuff.



Ken_McGuire #6 Posted Aug 17 2019 - 22:31

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View PostMissCreant, on Aug 17 2019 - 12:22, said:

That's good to know because I thought it would get worse, not better.  Like unlocking tanks.

 

As you go up in tiers the xp per battle generally climbs slowly. Since it takes the same amount of crew training to go up a skill at tier 1 as 10, this means that your crew will advance faster at higher tiers. In addition, all that tank grinding also ranks up the crew anyway.



el_01 #7 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 01:11

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I don't worry about crew grinds at lower tiers. Even with my limited credits, I usually just run the 75% crew all the way through. At tier 5, especially with the KV-1, you will find that your crew will gradually become pretty good as you elite it, and you can get a few skills. Sixth sense you should definitely consider using free XP for, not sure how much utility you get but I don't find it super useful given that I've been playing without it a long time. At tier 6, while you're grinding, you'll find that your crew usually gets to 100% and gets quite a bit into their first skill. Through this progression, I've happened to get decent crews in some tanks. Also - save crews from your premiums that they give you as a rental. I stuck mine from the T-34-85M in the T-34-85 and had a better stock grind as a result.

dunniteowl #8 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 01:57

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Did you not start with a 75% crew instead of the free 50% crew?  Seems like you should already have a 100% certified crew by most of those numbers if you started with a 75% crew and given your averages.  Other than that, not sure what to advise.

 

Check out Crew -- Global Wiki and read the section on retraining crew to new tanks and see what the 'costs' are in terms of the XP penalty you get for moving a crew at each level: Free (Rapid Courses), 20,000 Silver (Regimental Training) and 200 Gold (Tank Academy) Initial Crew Training as well as Crew Retraining to a New Tank.

 

As long as you are bringing a crew up a line and staying within the same initial Class of tanks, you should ONLY bring up a crew for 20,000 Silver If and ONLY If their overall Crew Qualification in the current tank is 85% or greater.  You should NEVER, EVER, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS, retrain a crew for free.  You will get a better crew for free from a brand new set of recruits and you will have literally wasted the time and effort you placed into the training of the crew.  Do NOT retrain your crew via Rapid Courses (Free).  Don't do it.  No.

 

If you train or retrain with Gold, your crew starts at 100% qualification (Recruitment) and when changing tanks, even a tank of a different Class, 200 Gold per Crew Member means they just pick right up where they left off in the old Dusty to that new Shiny.

 

Lastly, what is this 'grind' of which you speak?  I know nothing of this thing called a grind.  You select tank.  You decide, "Yes, am ready."  You click "Battle!"  FIGHT!

 

Rinse, repeat and one day, maybe someday soon, your crew gets a new skill slot opened.  Happy dance.  Celebrate with a screenie,  Woo, Who, who whoooOOO!

 

Then pick another tank, decide, "Yes, am ready."  Click, "Battle!"  FIGHT!

 

 

OvO



MissCreant #9 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 02:16

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View Postdunniteowl, on Aug 18 2019 - 01:57, said:

Did you not start with a 75% crew instead of the free 50% crew?  Seems like you should already have a 100% certified crew by most of those numbers if you started with a 75% crew and given your averages.  Other than that, not sure what to advise.

 

 

I did!  The MS-1 even started with 100% crew!

 

What even makes it worse is that I don't play that much so when I do I just play a tank to get the x2 or whatever then move onto the next so I think that means if I had played them time after time per day you could nearly double the amount of missions I have stated above to be at the same level!

 

 


Edited by MissCreant, Aug 18 2019 - 02:19.


3bagsfull #10 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 04:31

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The key to grinding crews at low tiers is playing them in Premium tanks.  Ex.  You throw that MS-1 crew in a game with a T-127 and they will make a ton more XP than in the MS-1 (or any other tech tree tank for that matter).  This difference almost gets exponential when you add in Premium Time, Crew XP events and Personal Reserves.

AudDog_56 #11 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 11:14

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With your low number of battles you should be able to get a new player invite code, go to the general discussion section of this forum, the first post is codes are us, scroll down to the new player/ reroll section.  you should be able to to find a code for a free tank, some gold and maybe some credit boosters. I know Cody Menz has a pretty good package at WOTGURU.. His site also has some preety good map guides for newer players. GLHF

 



jayhawk226 #12 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 13:06

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View PostMissCreant, on Aug 18 2019 - 02:16, said:

 

I did!  The MS-1 even started with 100% crew!

 

What even makes it worse is that I don't play that much so when I do I just play a tank to get the x2 or whatever then move onto the next so I think that means if I had played them time after time per day you could nearly double the amount of missions I have stated above to be at the same level!

 

 

 

Also, be aware there can be special "missions" going on where there are extra crew experience for battles played AFTER the first win of the day on each tank. You gotta really pay attention to the articles on the game launcher because for some reason WOT is all about you finding codes to enter to get your bonuses.



dunniteowl #13 Posted Aug 18 2019 - 22:12

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View PostMissCreant, on Aug 17 2019 - 19:16, said:

 

I did!  The MS-1 even started with 100% crew!

 

What even makes it worse is that I don't play that much so when I do I just play a tank to get the x2 or whatever then move onto the next so I think that means if I had played them time after time per day you could nearly double the amount of missions I have stated above to be at the same level!

 

 

 

 

You know, this description indicates to me an initial situation that might be part of a 'core' issue.  If you're going to 'grind' then you have to 'do it right' to 'get 'er done.'

 

What I mean by this is this:  If you play your tank just enough to get your daily XP multiplier and then move along to the next unit, then you are leaving playing that tank before you are even really warmed up to it.

 

Here's an example.  I have this JgPzIV that I love.  I also freaking HATE that thing.  If I play it just a couple of times, I can win one game out of three or four and get it, then move on.  Okay, two things there.  First thing, if I do that, I accept that my overall performance is always going to be low in that unit, because I won't play it enough to get my feel for it to play it well.  Some days and depending on the unit, that takes a bit longer for some tanks than others.

 

I did okay in the MS-1, but I sometimes had to go four or five games just getting my groove back on in it.  Honestly, that was my first "100 Matches Per Tank to 50%" Objective personal mission.  I did okay and I had more experience than your average new player at tier 1 in it, however it still took me several games in a row just to get a better idea of it's aiming quirks, movement ability, etc. so that I could compensate in my timing for those things.  I did pretty good and had done, but the damage and kills don't lean upwards on a steady trend until you play that unit pretty steadily. 

 

In short, that actual experience in the tank makes enough of a difference in your overall damage and experience regularly that the extra four to five matches you play past getting your daily XP bonus nets you more overall daily XP in sheer numbers of matches, though it also helps you to 'memorize' your tank's characteristics.  That allows you to better evaluate how to do whatever you need to do in a match as your knowledge of what you can do and how long it takes becomes more of a habit than an effort to remember.

 

I honestly think that a lot of folks would do a LOT better when they play if they just played that one tank or two a bit more and didn't hop across so many tanks in too short a time.

 

When I first started playing, I sold off some of the initial tier 1 units I got and spent my gold on garage slots and started the US, UK and German lines.  Even so, I was playing each tank for it's daily XP bonus and then played tank after tank after tank, going from one to another and across them all until I had played all of them at least three to five times.

 

When I started realizing I wasn't doing that well, I started directing my play a bit better.  I'd pick only casemate and slow TDs to play for the first hour or two.  Then I'd play fast LTs.  After that, some MEDS in the same manner and so on.  As I had three lines and maybe fourteen tanks altogether at that time, each tank still got played at least three to five times, but they got played in repeated sessions in a row with only one or two tanks going back and forth between matches.

 

My scores went up and my games improved.  I am certain it was because i was more focused overall, however, it was easier to focus when I played the same tank repeatedly and didn't have to keep remembering, "Was I in a LT a MED or a TD?"  When your damage and kills go up due to having more focus on your machine, then your XP and credits go up faster (it usually results in a win or two more than usual, too) and you advance your crews a bit faster for that alone.

 

Also, the advice about using a Premium for 'pushing' your crew in that as well is a really good idea.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



the_Deadly_Bulb #14 Posted Aug 20 2019 - 08:40

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OP, don't discount the XP generating capabilities of low tier Premium Tanks.

To make the most of this bonus ensure you have "Accelerate Crew Training" checked for the vehicle.

 

All Premium tanks have XP bonuses, the lower tier ones have the greatest bonuses.

 

From the wiki;

"Since all premium tanks come with elite status, they also come with accelerated crew training available. When accelerated training is turned off, premium tanks can accumulate combat experience which can be converted to free experience with gold. This free experience can be used to hasten or skip hard module/tank grinds. Premium tanks also benefit from a combat experience multiplier. This multiplier decreases linearly as the tanks' tiers increase; a tier II premium will gain a 70% bonus XP, whereas a tier VIII premium will only get 10% bonus XP. Tier X tanks receive 5%."

 

Source - 4th paragraph  https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Premium_Tanks



Silversound #15 Posted Aug 21 2019 - 03:25

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We have long ago forgotten the pain.

MissCreant: 918 Battles

 

Silversound: 39,000 battles

ptwr: 45,000 Battles

Ken_McGuire: 31,000 Battles

dunniteowl: 30,000 Battles

the_Deadly_Bulb: 27,000 Battles

 

Ours is a different kind of suffering:

"WTH is that guy doing. He's dead in 5..4..3..2..Boom.

Awe eff this team, four dead in less than sixty seconds.

Why did I even log on today?"



WIZD #16 Posted Aug 21 2019 - 05:30

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View PostMissCreant, on Aug 17 2019 - 17:54, said:

So I am about 900 battles in and looked at my tanks.

 

MS-1 --> 179 battles, crew at 90% which is what like half way there to 100%??

T-26 --> 132 battles, crew at 84%

T-46 --> love this tank but 208 battles, 99% crew.

T-28 --> 59 battles, crew at 0% - - 91% on the way to start working on first skill.

others lower battle counts so sticking with the above.  They haven't started their first skill work either.

 

I am not against grinding but isn't this a bit excessive?  In order to get first skill in the MS-1 I need like 350 battles?  maybe 200 more in the T-26?

 

It seems a bit silly.

Thank god you can buy books now to speed up that process.



Taylor3006 #17 Posted Aug 21 2019 - 05:55

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What I find especially onerous about working on crews is you have to grind them to 100% and then grind them up to 100% again before you get their first skill...………….. A really stupid mechanic.


Edited by Taylor3006, Aug 21 2019 - 05:55.


ChaseR392 #18 Posted Aug 21 2019 - 06:08

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View PostTaylor3006, on Aug 21 2019 - 05:55, said:

What I find especially onerous about working on crews is you have to grind them to 100% and then grind them up to 100% again before you get their first skill...………….. A really stupid mechanic.

 

You don't have to grind them to 100%.... a fully trained crewman can be purchased or retrained for 200 gold. Grinding them from 50% or 75% to 100% is something that a player chooses to do.

 

And skills began to have an effect as soon as you start training them.... they don't have to be at 100% to be useful. Only perks must be trained to 100% before they have any effect.



Taylor3006 #19 Posted Aug 21 2019 - 10:05

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View PostChaseR392, on Aug 20 2019 - 23:08, said:

 

You don't have to grind them to 100%.... a fully trained crewman can be purchased or retrained for 200 gold. Grinding them from 50% or 75% to 100% is something that a player chooses to do.

 

And skills began to have an effect as soon as you start training them.... they don't have to be at 100% to be useful. Only perks must be trained to 100% before they have any effect.

Yes I understand that I can pay to get them to 100% and then grind out another 100% to get a skill. Yes I understand that some skills start before hitting 100%. Again it is still an awful grind to try and do it for free or in my case, just not going to pay $5 to get a 100% crew that I then have to grind to get a skill of any worth...…….  Not going to argue with you the difference between skills and perks because I think you understood what I meant and are just being obnoxious.



dunniteowl #20 Posted Aug 21 2019 - 18:33

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Well, on the whole I agree with Silversound, though I must counsel that I have NOT forgotten the pain.  I do look at it through the lens of, "I got through it, so can you, I ain't that special."  And, to be honest, fair and truthful to the Nth degree, there was no pain involved at any time.  It was hella frustrating.  My 'drum' that I pound on for WG is how terrible their New Player Training Experience is.

 

I don't have to deal with it, unless I drop to the lower tiers, when it comes to the whole newbness factor and in my particular case, it is less feeling overwhelmed and more feeling like it's a bit too 'pew-pew-pew' for my tastes, but I'm grinding a line, so...

 

The simple truth of the matter is this:  You can look at all the 'reasons, excuses and explanations' for why you're not having fun at this game -- or why it's so hard on the New Player, etc., and still find some truth to all of that.  Why?  Because you can always find what you're looking for to justify why something is worth complaining about.  All you have to do is look around and you'll see it.

 

It's JUST AS TRUE, however, that if you look for good play, good positioning, good team work, good games, good outcomes, etc, inclusive of generally having a 'good time' while you do all that, then you'll ultimately find that as well.  And while you might not find it takes all the bad out of the equation, there's more good out there than most think and the bad ain't all that bad once you learn to take the attitude of "everything in this game is a challenge to overcome, how well can I do that?"

 

If a game isn't for you, well then, it isn't for you.  The fact that some still come here, after many hundreds and in some cases, many thousands, of matches played and complain about the game tells you two things:  There's STILL some fun to be had or you wouldn't keep playing and; The complaints are not so severe that they actually drive that player away.

 

The maxim for survival in pretty much any situation is this:  Adapt or die.

 

We can all talk this through until the cows come home to be tipped, but the fact remains that the situation is not as bad as some folks make it out, terrible though it can feel at moments.  Thus, we can pretty doggone certain that the amount of effort WG will spend on this 'issue' will, in all likelihood, be nil.

 

So what now?

 

Well, NOW, it's time to listen to what the old veterans who've been telling you what you need to know to prevail and then, I don't know -- DO THAT.

 

 

As always, you have my support if you wish to continue and improve.  If you do not wish to continue and improve, I'd kindly thank you to quit whinging about it and give the rest of us a break from that extra stress of having to go through it and patiently explain it one more time.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO






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