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Premium Ammunition Balancing - Solutions that keep everyone happy

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Poll: Shall we improve the game for everyone? (18 members have cast votes)

Shall we Balance premium ammunition in a way that keeps everyone happy?

  1. Yes (9 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. No (9 votes [50.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

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MrAnkylasuarus #1 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 09:38

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VOTING


IF YOU DON'T CARE, DON'T VOTE.

 

Please don't sabotage the wants/needs of others because you sort of have an opinion, thank you.
 

PLEASE  READ  CAREFULLY  AND CONSIDER  ALL  OPTIONS  WHILE  INFERRING  THE  POSSIBILITIES  OF  EACH  BEFORE  VOTING  OR  CRITIQUING

 

The following solutions do not represent the only possible solutions, I've brought them to the table to show that reasonable solutions can be found. It's safe to say that if you feel inconvenienced by premium ammo and want change to happen of any kind in your favor that you vote YES on the poll.

 

THE ISSUE AT HAND

 

A lot of players may disagree with this, but this is a legitimate subject to tackle. A lot of players is not all players. Premium ammo is a problematic game feature. In order to find a solution that benefits everyone, we need to be open to each others arguments about the future of premium ammunition.

 

I understand that some find it frustrating to not be able to penetrate the armor of certain tanks, but I also understand the value in playing strategically. World of Tanks without useful armor is not a tank game anymore. It becomes a repetitive shooter where the one to start shooting first wins.

I personally have a lot of matches where top tier tanks simply spam premium ammo. There's no incentive to use standard ammunition. I believe there should be a reason to not use it when it is unnecessary, and encourage learning weak spots and choosing to aim to further reward strategic game play and superior tactics. I propose Wargaming take a look at how they can implement a system to further balance premium ammunition.


WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT
 

Here is a list of possible solutions that each provide different ways to accommodate all players:

1) Limit the amount of premium ammo available per battle. This way you will need to save the ammo for when you really need it. The number of available shells can vary depending on the tier of the tank, the damage the gun outputs, and the top tier of the battle the player enters.

 

2) Provide a nerf on shots taken with premium ammo if the target hit does not need to be shot at with premium ammo. This could be determined by calculating an average between the number of penetrable surfaces/weak spots weighing in more on the front half of the tank, and the amount of impenetrable armor on the front half of the vehicle. This nerf could be (depending on the type of shell) a form of over penetration where the shot does little to no damage at all but still damages crew/modules.

 

3) Increasing the price of premium ammunition enough to discourage its overuse by putting the player's income into the negative. This seems unpopular, but will be easy for the developers to implement.

 

4) Putting in place a system where the game tracks players who spam premium ammunition. If premium shells are often fired at tanks that would not need premium ammo to penetrate, then the experience earned for that battle will be drastically reduced. Whether tanks need premium ammo to be penetrated can be determined by the average calculation mentioned in solution 2.

 

5) Disable the option to load premium ammo once in a battle if you happen to get top tier. People may not like this, but again, it would be easy to implement as a temporary solution.

 

6) Remove premium ammo entirely and rebalance the game. This will be unpopular with those that feel the need to keep it or don't want anything to change.

 

LET'S MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY


I'd like to hear what other players think. If anyone else has solutions that are productive towards making all players happy, bring them to the table.
I hope this issue gets the attention it deserves to continue to make World of Tanks a better game day by day.

 

EDITS: 

 

Added 6th solution to avoid confusion with those who just want premium ammo removed.

 

Added Read Carefully notice and adjusted font for readability.

 

Added more clarification on voting.


Edited by MrAnkylasuarus, Sep 05 2019 - 18:44.


JakeTheMystic #2 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 09:55

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Your definition of "making everyone happy" must be different than mine. 

 

Option 1 has already been discussed many times and WG has already dismissed it as some tanks would still have too many shells while others would be extremely limited because they would most likely do it based on a percentage of their overall carry capacity. Things like the Turan III which already has a low shell count, would suffer a lot more than something like a Ram II with a higher shell count. 

 

Option 2 and 4 just sound bad because you are leaving it up to WG to decide what would be "unnecessary". They wouldnt want to put in the effort of collecting statistics, so this would just leave to some tanks being punished more than others. For instance, a lot of tanks with HEAT as premium are really only effective with heat. Looking at things like the T57, the standard pen is too low in most cases and a lot of people load only HEAT. Is it sometimes unnecessary? Sure, but its a lot better than being put at a disadvantage. 

 

Option 3 has already been discussed many times, it would only affect poor players, not the top-end unicums that are already have enough credits and gold to last them a lifetime. People with premium account making tons more credits over F2P players would also be too drastic of a difference to make it even considerable. 

 

Option 5 I can kind of see working as a possibility, but due to certain tank imbalances even within their own tier, its sometimes necessary to fire premium at tanks of equal tier to even have a chance at penning. Looking mostly at things like a E100 vs a Maus or equivalent. 

 

I'd say just remove premium and balance the game properly, it shouldnt be used as a a crutch and it shouldnt be necessary at all, especially in competitive play. Make it way less effective, keep the different shell types because things like HEAT not going through spaced armor but having a slightly higher pen value, with APCR having higher shell velocity is a great way to keep things interesting. Maybe even add in another shell type or something. I know they already discussed this many times but its honestly the best option I've heard so far. 

 

What they shouldnt do is buff the HP of all tanks in the game, forcing people to relearn the game (not like its going to be hard for people who already have no clue how to play), effectively making HE spam common again as they make premium rounds nearly useless. I've heard countless people say that if they release those changes as they were on the test, they would just stop playing, myself included. 



Tuzban #3 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 10:02

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Yep, the only real solution is to remove premium ammo, and rebalance the tanks accordingly.

Ironbutt2015 #4 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 10:59

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Remove premium ammo completely.  Refund the money to those players who have some premium ammo and carry on.

 

 



MrAnkylasuarus #5 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 11:01

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I agree that removing premium ammunition and balancing the game properly is the best option for all players, but lets be realistic. Wargaming won't go for that. An absurd amount of effort would be required to rebalance the entire tech tree. One that most likely isn't justifiable from a business standpoint. 

 

They may choose to do so, I don't know. That would be really cool of them to do that, but they haven't so far, and players have been complaining about premium ammunition for a long time. 

 

What I present is the middle ground. Solutions that aren't over the top and don't make anybody angry, because yes, there are also players that want premium ammunition to stay the same. These are most likely players that take advantage of its benefits.

 

I personally don't use premium ammunition unless I absolutely have to, which is rarely.

 

EDIT: I changed my mind


Edited by MrAnkylasuarus, Sep 05 2019 - 11:34.


thandiflight #6 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 11:06

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The problem is NOT premium ammo, the problem is why there is a need for premium ammo. When this game was first released and premium ammo actually cost gold, most players carried a very limited amount if any. Its use was mostly restricted to Clan Wars. For the most part, tanks had weak-points. If you knew the tanks and took the trouble to aim you would do damage. Some contests you learned to avoid until you could get an advantage and shoot at weak points. Then Wargaming removed weak-points, buffed the armour and made more corridor maps - and the only way to deal with this situation was to fire high penetration ammunition....so they made it available for credits. The problem is not the ammo, how much it costs or how much some players fire, the problem is corridor maps and minimal weak-points. Don't mess with the economy of the game - that is all a change to premium ammo will bring about. The End.

MrAnkylasuarus #7 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 11:24

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View Postthandiflight, on Sep 05 2019 - 11:06, said:

The problem is NOT premium ammo, the problem is why there is a need for premium ammo. When this game was first released and premium ammo actually cost gold, most players carried a very limited amount if any. Its use was mostly restricted to Clan Wars. For the most part, tanks had weak-points. If you knew the tanks and took the trouble to aim you would do damage. Some contests you learned to avoid until you could get an advantage and shoot at weak points. Then Wargaming removed weak-points, buffed the armour and made more corridor maps - and the only way to deal with this situation was to fire high penetration ammunition....so they made it available for credits. The problem is not the ammo, how much it costs or how much some players fire, the problem is corridor maps and minimal weak-points. Don't mess with the economy of the game - that is all a change to premium ammo will bring about. The End.

Wise words, you've clearly put thought into this. You've changed my mind. I've often been on the edge with removing it/balancing it, but this is true. Messing with game economy is a bad idea. The best option is to change game play factors that affect players' decisions on when to use premium ammunition.This will only change the flow of the economy rather than change it directly.



Tuzban #8 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 12:03

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View Postthandiflight, on Sep 05 2019 - 10:06, said:

The problem is NOT premium ammo, the problem is why there is a need for premium ammo. When this game was first released and premium ammo actually cost gold, most players carried a very limited amount if any. Its use was mostly restricted to Clan Wars. For the most part, tanks had weak-points. If you knew the tanks and took the trouble to aim you would do damage. Some contests you learned to avoid until you could get an advantage and shoot at weak points. Then Wargaming removed weak-points, buffed the armour and made more corridor maps - and the only way to deal with this situation was to fire high penetration ammunition....so they made it available for credits.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you say. I'd like to add one more thing, but I'll get to it soon.

 

The important thing to point out, though, is what's the solution. As you correctly point out, there is a need to use premium ammo today. And you listed pretty much all the reasons for the need. Logically, if you want to remove or "fix" premium ammo, you should revert those changes. Meaning that you rebalance tanks, open up some corridor maps, and get rid of premium ammo (or make it cost gold, but that was dumb).

 

Which leads us back to the "won't do" category of changes. It's too massive for Wargaming, and they've gone in the opposite directions for years already.

 

 

The one thing I'd like to add to your post is one more reason to use gold ammo.

 

Think of facing an E75 frontally in a Type 61. You know that hitting the lower plate you're pretty much guaranteed to go through, but hitting the upper plate, your chances are slim. Knowing that RNG is a thing, you know that you might hit the upper plate by accident, as you're not that close. Why wouldn't you just dab the 2 key, and guarantee a pen?

 

Or, to generalize, why wouldn't you shoot premium ammo when it increases your chances of penetrating the target, often significantly?

 

That's why many people spam premium ammo even if it's not needed. The only fix for that is to remove premium ammo.



4P1 #9 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 12:17

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I vote for limiting the number of premium rds available per tank.

An_old_slow_guy #10 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 12:22

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Medium tanks have far too much ability at top tiers to pen heavy tanks with premium ammo.  They already have a speed and spotting advantage, so why the need for gold rounds?  Besides being a money-making ploy for WG, it cheapens all the effort put into grinding a top tier heavy, only to have it made irrelevant by tanks you can't see penning your lower plate and turret with ease.  I say remove the gold rounds, make super heavies king and let's see how much that changes the gameplay.   Or least try it out for a while - it would definitely be something different. 

Rikiri_Kardo #11 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 12:37

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Maybe I'm in the minority and I probably am at least among those who post on the forum, but I don't think premium ammo is a problem. I carry a few rounds, I use them when I need to. I get hit with them, often when it isn't needed, but oh well. They don't cost real money anymore, it's just a case of "it is what it is" to me and doesn't need a solution. They're just another kind of ammo. Just my opinion. ( I also know dozens of you will wish you could downvote me, another it is what it is thing, lol)

ArmorStorm #12 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 13:51

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View PostRikiri_Kardo, on Sep 05 2019 - 05:37, said:

Maybe I'm in the minority and I probably am at least among those who post on the forum, but I don't think premium ammo is a problem. I carry a few rounds, I use them when I need to. I get hit with them, often when it isn't needed, but oh well. They don't cost real money anymore, it's just a case of "it is what it is" to me and doesn't need a solution. They're just another kind of ammo. Just my opinion. ( I also know dozens of you will wish you could downvote me, another it is what it is thing, lol)


No, I don’t really care either.  I especially don’t care what round they shoot me in when driving a thinly armored vehicle.  Other than HE/HESH of course..,



Cowcat137 #13 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 13:54

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I thought Minsk tabled this?

CanadianPuppy #14 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 13:54

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Option 3 is by far the best. It's easy, doesn't excessively affect gameplay, and it would discourage some players from spamming 10+ gold rounds a match.

cavalry11 #15 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 14:53

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Leave premium alone it has a purpose and needs to be in game. You nerf premium and when bottom tier in a battle you will have no option but to die a quick death. All the whiners about people using premium when not necessary get over it is their option.

the_dude_76 #16 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 15:02

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The idea that everyone would agree on any one solution, or combination thereof, is frankly ridiculous.

 

This reality applies not only to this game but life in general...



Markd73 #17 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 15:18

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WG will do whatever makes them the most money in the short term. Players can "want" all kinds of things but it's not going to happen unless wg can increase profits. Why do you think they have corridor maps and mechanics that encourage spending credits (ie premium ammo)? To get players to buy premium tanks and premium accounts.

 

I'm all for companies making money, but wg has been prioritizing short term profit over gameplay for years.

 

 



MrAnkylasuarus #18 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 18:36

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I've had similar doubts and thoughts, and they've caused me to quit playing for extended periods of time. I would still like to make change because its a game I genuinely enjoy when I'm not getting bum rushed by the entire enemy team loading premium ammo. I feel like some aren't reading the post all the way or taking everything into consideration. I almost never use premium ammo. Even when faced with a tank that I cannot penetrate from the front. I will seek alternative strategy before settle for loading premium ammo. I understand its uses, and I understand its value. However I also understand the frustrating disadvantage it gives players who work towards heavy tanks only to feel useless and unsuccessful the majority of the time. In tanks like the M6 Mutant, (Which has clear and easy frontal weak spots) I often get gold spammed, shots that I would have otherwise been able to block using angling strategies, I was unable to, and the usefulness of my tank was reduced to zero. 

I wish others would be more understanding of this.

 

Its safe to assume if someone refuses to see reason in this that they have a reason to selfishly benefit from the ability to spam premium ammo.

I understand that its frustrating to learn game mechanics when someone just wants to go home after work or school and relax on an easy game of WoT. That's what I want to do, but I'm not going to be selfish and take advantage of broken game mechanics while acting like my opinion is the only one that matters to keep it the same.

 

I know this comes off harsh, and it is. Especially if people not used to being called out. Frankly I don't care if that upsets them and drives them to leave angry responses, people will be selfish and not look beyond themselves. Its impossible to reason with them. They do not know what they do not know, I will leave it at that. 

Now lets focus on the positive and constructive comments. 
Does anyone else have ideas to bring to the table, other possible solutions?


Edited by MrAnkylasuarus, Sep 05 2019 - 18:37.


texflash #19 Posted Sep 05 2019 - 22:38

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The problem is not with Premium Ammo . It is hellaciously expensive anyway .

 

The problem is the abysmally slow traverse , and reload speeds of heavy tanks . With the auto-loading lights and mediums able to drive up to a heavy , take 90% of its health , and drive away having taken only one shot in return ; I have to wonder why anyone would play a heavy .

 

I think it is the auto-loading light tanks , and the clown cars which need to be "nerfed" . That might encourage them to actually spot instead of running the map inflicting damage . 



Tuzban #20 Posted Sep 06 2019 - 10:10

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View Posttexflash, on Sep 05 2019 - 21:38, said:

The problem is not with Premium Ammo . It is hellaciously expensive anyway .

 

The problem is the abysmally slow traverse , and reload speeds of heavy tanks .

 

Both of these might be true for tier 6 and below, or for new players. Neither of them applies to high-tier tanks/gameplay.

 

Many competitive players or players from top clans, or players who have at least a few tier 8 premiums and are willing to grind credits, or anyone playing Frontline a lot, have tens of millions of credits laying around. Premium ammo cost doesn't matter to them. Personally, I'm kinda low on credits (around 10M at the moment with a few tier 10s to buy), but I don't consider the cost of premium ammo or premium consumables when using them. It really doesn't matter at all.

 

And the best tanks in the game at the moment, for both pubbies and competitive play, are heavy tanks. Sure, they're all tier 10 tanks, but that could be considered the end-game of World of Tanks. If you want examples, how about the T95/FV4201 Chieftain or the Object 279 (e).






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