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Is the balance to premium ammunition the solution to all problems?

gold premiun ammo APCR

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iiNSaNiiTY #1 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 00:30

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we are in the new goal of the game that are tanks with broken armor with nulls or almost few weakspot, Defender, Chrysler, 279e, VK etc. also many current tanks depend on the gold ammunition to be useful in battles, T32, almost all medium, botton tiers, heavy with MM pref, etc. considering that, they don't believe that the "balance" to the ammunition would only make things worse?

 

Imagine a platoon of defenders vs a T32 platoon with the premiered nerf gold ammunition, the defenders will not need to use it because it is easy to write to a T32 unless it does "hulldonw" in the meantime the T32 will cost a lot to write to the defender since he has only It has two pixel weakspots that are very difficult to get right.

many players believe that with this change the unicum will cease to be unicum and they will have better results in battles, but is this true?

 

Nope.

 

This will only worsen the situation and make the broken tanks even more broken, besides what does not count is that the TD (who are a majority) can write strong shields without the need for premium, so with the "balance" of the ammunition Premiun will not mean that you can go with your heavy to the enemy base without a scratch, you will still be easily violated if you do not know how to position yourself and hide your weak points.

 

Finally, it is not very beneficial to use premium ammunition, why? Simple "mechanics" WG explains it very well in the following video.

in short, the HEAT cannot cross caterpillars or spaced armor, this means that this ammunition is useless when the enemy makes sidescraping or is showing its lateral part, besides that it is the slowest ammunition, so forget to be able to do something to very fast tanks , the APCR also has disadvantages, it loses more capacity with the perforation than the AP and is normalized at a greater angle.

 

in summary, the balance of the premiun munition will be a catastrophe for the bad players who are the majority, the unicum will not suffer this much since they know very well the weak points of a tank and know where to position themselves in the course of the battle, the good players do not do "gold spam" good players use different types of ammunition that can be favorable or unfavorable in different types of battles, enjoy 

 



JakeTheMystic #2 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 00:55

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Or, they could just remove premium rounds, add an alternative that is less effective for a lower cost (like WT). HEAT is bad against spaced armor but has higher pen values, APCR has higher shell velocity and higher pen typically, HE does damage regardless if it pens or not (most of the time at least) and HESH is basically HE with more steps. 

 

What about a round type that is more accurate, smaller redicle when aiming, better shell velicty of AP but it doesnt have a higher pen value, if anything maybe a slightly lower pen value. Good for TDs to make sure they are hitting shots and at medium range you are more effective at hitting weak points. 

 

Your argument about "good players" not spamming gold is incorrect in many cases. Sure HEAT has a negative by not being able to pen spaced armor, but how many tanks have spaced armor on the front especially at tier 10? If anything HEAT is the best of the premium rounds because the pen values are so much higher. The T57 for instance is kinda meh with AP, but if you load full HEAT its one of the more reliable autoloaders at tier 10. 

 

They should have done a better job at keeping things balanced, sure. Using the argument that if its removed is going to ruin the game because a T32 cant pen a Defender easily while defenders could wipe the field is a counterproductive argument if anything. That reason alone shows exactly why premium should be removed and the devs should actually try to balance the game and stop selling broken premium tanks. 

 

>Remove premium rounds

>Add another round as replacement with effective trade-offs

>Balance armor values of tanks at all tiers (starting with ones the community deem most broken, though not too many would need to be addressed at the start.)

 

As a result, gold spam would no longer be a requirement for competitive play and winning would be more based on skill, not how lucky someone gets with RNG or gold spam. Pubbies will be better for people who dont fire premium on a consistent basis. Others will need to adjust to firing less premium. 

 

I admit it, I spam premium when I have premium account. I dont bother using reserves 90% of the time because I can spam full premium and still at least break even. When my premium account ran out and I had to go back to firing standard, my stats dropped a bit and I lost interest in the game because shots that would normally pen 100% of the time now only pen maybe 75% or less, it gets frustrating knowing you would have penned if you were just a scumbag and loaded the premium. 

 

Sure it wont affect unicums as much, they might play less for the same reason but simply spamming premium wont just make you a unicum, they are that way because of their decision making. 

 

The overall consensus of the community is that premium rounds are bad for the game and should be changed in some way, but nobody can agree how they should be changed. Nobody was happy with the proposed HP increase of tanks, so they are looking for alternatives. I really dislike playing pubs because I feel that people who fire premium right from the start are at an automatic advantage over everyone else regardless of the tank they are in, it takes far less skill to simply fire premium instead of having to aim the majority of your shots. 

 

Your argument doesn't even have concrete evidence as you basically said "spamming heat is bad because it doesnt pen spaced armor" which is really a tiny negative in the larger picture. That and "removing premium wont affect unicums" which is true to an extent, but I've seen plenty of unicums fire only gold right from the start when it was completely unnecessary simply because they can afford it. 

 

If you're given the opportunity to have an advantage right from the start of the match and you can afford said advantage, why not take it? 



Heart_of_Steel #3 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 01:09

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No it isnt but its a start

iiNSaNiiTY #4 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 01:24

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Sep 09 2019 - 00:55, said:

Or, they could just remove premium rounds, add an alternative that is less effective for a lower cost (like WT). HEAT is bad against spaced armor but has higher pen values, APCR has higher shell velocity and higher pen typically, HE does damage regardless if it pens or not (most of the time at least) and HESH is basically HE with more steps. 

 

What about a round type that is more accurate, smaller redicle when aiming, better shell velicty of AP but it doesnt have a higher pen value, if anything maybe a slightly lower pen value. Good for TDs to make sure they are hitting shots and at medium range you are more effective at hitting weak points. 

 

Your argument about "good players" not spamming gold is incorrect in many cases. Sure HEAT has a negative by not being able to pen spaced armor, but how many tanks have spaced armor on the front especially at tier 10? If anything HEAT is the best of the premium rounds because the pen values are so much higher. The T57 for instance is kinda meh with AP, but if you load full HEAT its one of the more reliable autoloaders at tier 10. 

 

They should have done a better job at keeping things balanced, sure. Using the argument that if its removed is going to ruin the game because a T32 cant pen a Defender easily while defenders could wipe the field is a counterproductive argument if anything. That reason alone shows exactly why premium should be removed and the devs should actually try to balance the game and stop selling broken premium tanks. 

 

>Remove premium rounds

>Add another round as replacement with effective trade-offs

>Balance armor values of tanks at all tiers (starting with ones the community deem most broken, though not too many would need to be addressed at the start.)

 

As a result, gold spam would no longer be a requirement for competitive play and winning would be more based on skill, not how lucky someone gets with RNG or gold spam. Pubbies will be better for people who dont fire premium on a consistent basis. Others will need to adjust to firing less premium. 

 

I admit it, I spam premium when I have premium account. I dont bother using reserves 90% of the time because I can spam full premium and still at least break even. When my premium account ran out and I had to go back to firing standard, my stats dropped a bit and I lost interest in the game because shots that would normally pen 100% of the time now only pen maybe 75% or less, it gets frustrating knowing you would have penned if you were just a scumbag and loaded the premium. 

 

Sure it wont affect unicums as much, they might play less for the same reason but simply spamming premium wont just make you a unicum, they are that way because of their decision making. 

 

The overall consensus of the community is that premium rounds are bad for the game and should be changed in some way, but nobody can agree how they should be changed. Nobody was happy with the proposed HP increase of tanks, so they are looking for alternatives. I really dislike playing pubs because I feel that people who fire premium right from the start are at an automatic advantage over everyone else regardless of the tank they are in, it takes far less skill to simply fire premium instead of having to aim the majority of your shots. 

 

Your argument doesn't even have concrete evidence as you basically said "spamming heat is bad because it doesnt pen spaced armor" which is really a tiny negative in the larger picture. That and "removing premium wont affect unicums" which is true to an extent, but I've seen plenty of unicums fire only gold right from the start when it was completely unnecessary simply because they can afford it. 

 

If you're given the opportunity to have an advantage right from the start of the match and you can afford said advantage, why not take it? 

 

This is also a very weak argument, the premier ammunition is not "miraculous" it all depends on the tank you play, for example.

 

Heavy Russians: Most have almost immune turrets without any weak points IS-7, 705, 277, when they are hulldown the gold ammunition is useless, the same goes for Swedes, Poles and Britons, actually the only tanks that in truth they suffer from the premiun ammunition are tanks with square armor without angulation, such as the E-100, Maus and the heavy Japanese, but these can be arranged in another way.

 

TD: using premium ammunition in TD is very unnecessary and only a bad player would do it, Swedish TDs have pen with unreal APCR, Germans also have good parameters, the only reason I would use gold in a TD is Because I'm botton tier. the only TD who necessarily need to use premium ammunition are those of the badger line, the rest would only be a waste of credits.

 

The premier ammunition is the least of the problems of this game, what we need now are, less tanks with broken armor such as defender, buff to tanks that really need it like the whole line of the T32 and the E100 and especially do everything possible to make players begin to understand how menanics work ..



HOTA_CHATON #5 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 01:30

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They simply need to balance standard ammo and get rid of premium ammo.  The way it's being done, is just not going to work.

GeorgePreddy #6 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 01:48

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NO... gold ammo is fine like it is now.

 

 

 

 

 

 



dont_ping_me #7 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 01:48

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Its one thing for players to be spamming gold at super-heavies, but most of the time they are spamming at everything. There should be a penalty to players shooting gold at tanks with little armor. My suggestion is that if the round has enough pen to go through one side and out the other, then little damage should be done.

iiNSaNiiTY #8 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 01:51

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View Postdont_ping_me, on Sep 09 2019 - 01:48, said:

Its one thing for players to be spamming gold at super-heavies, but most of the time they are spamming at everything. There should be a penalty to players shooting gold at tanks with little armor. My suggestion is that if the round has enough pen to go through one side and out the other, then little damage should be done.

 

I really don't understand how this affects you. Are you an economist?



GeorgePreddy #9 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 02:19

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View Postdont_ping_me, on Sep 08 2019 - 21:48, said:

There should be a penalty to players shooting gold at tanks with little armor.

 

Please explain why this is an issue for you ??

 

If anything the enemy could shoot would pen, why does it matter what they shoot ???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Riphawk67 #10 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 02:21

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Make standard ammo free and double the price of premium. Add weak points back into armor. 

Ironbutt2015 #11 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 02:45

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Remove all premium ammo from the game.  Refund peoples credits for it and move on.

 

I fight all tanks up to tier X and never found a tank I cannot damage.  Those crying "Immune" to normal shells I say BS.  Those crying that they "Have" to use premium/gold is BS.

 

All it seems to be for is to make the game easier for the so called "skilled players" to ramp up their stats.

 

While your at it get right of the XVM cheat and the toxicity in the game will drop right off.

 

 



Selkmanam #12 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 02:57

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View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Sep 09 2019 - 01:51, said:

 

I really don't understand how this affects you. Are you an economist?


Its a mechanic from WoWs, they have HE and AP, the AP have more penetration but less damage so they fire it only if they are not doing enough damage with HE (if penetrates  it starts a fire, destroy modules and do a lot of damage,
WG should increase the penetration of HE to increase its value in comparison to AP and limit the gold rounds to 4-5 so in a clan battle you choose when to shot them



Pipinghot #13 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 05:00

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View PostSelkmanam, on Sep 08 2019 - 20:57, said:

View PostiiNSaNiiTY, on Sep 09 2019 - 01:51, said:

I really don't understand how this affects you. Are you an economist?

Its a mechanic from WoWs, they have HE and AP, the AP have more penetration but less damage so they fire it only if they are not doing enough damage with HE

That's not really true. Generally speaking you fire what you have loaded, that's true in WoWS just like it's true in WoT. If you've already loaded an AP round in WoWS, and good target becomes available, most people will fire what they have loaded rather than lose a firing opportunity while they're changing ammo. Even a shot that does less damage is better than losing a firing opportunity. If they've just started loading an AP round they might switch to HE and lose the couple of seconds of loading time from their AP, but most people don't spend the time ditching a fully loaded round just to switch to another type of ammo.

 

That's the same thing that happens in WoT, if you already have prem ammo loaded and a target comes into view that you can pen even without the prem round, well people usually fire the prem round anyway.

 

This idea that people deliberately go out of their way to fire prem rounds at thinly armored tanks is silly and foolish, it defies all common sense, you fire what you have loaded. It makes zero sense to switch ammo if you might lose a targeting opportunity.



fierronights #14 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 05:12

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I like the rounds. I screwed around for hundreds of matches. Once you pay attention though, youll know when to use what round and when. Dont worry about a winning match and such. Just focus on your shot and match to match, remember that moment. Those 1 or 2 seconds you shoot, learn what your doing in those 1 or 2 seconds. 

 

I dont say what i found out, but i can say you can trade shots with a tank, and what you switch to in the heat of that moment is when those seconds of not just trying to shoot, but the decisions you make matter. 

 

If your dancing and shooting over and over waiting to see if anything else happens outside of you to help you, then your doing it wrong because you already know where that dance will lead. See what you do, and do what you want to see happen. -FN


Edited by fierronights, Sep 09 2019 - 05:17.


SquishySupreme #15 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 05:41

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It should be removed entirely.  All tanks can be penetrated with standard ammo at their tier from SOME side or location.  This would require more teamwork and tactics, though, which seems to be beyond the capabilities of most of the players.  

As it is, it is a disaster.  Press 2 to make your enemy's armor worthless.  Look at me in my T8 German TD - press 2, I can pen a Maus in the front! No skill or planning needed!

RagnarokBazil #16 Posted Sep 09 2019 - 05:59

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Sep 08 2019 - 19:48, said:

NO... gold ammo is fine like it is now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By that logic then it be like Steel hunter cept we will be paying 4k a pop..  No thank you.. Remove them.

 

View PostPipinghot, on Sep 08 2019 - 23:00, said:

That's not really true. Generally speaking you fire what you have loaded, that's true in WoWS just like it's true in WoT. If you've already loaded an AP round in WoWS, and good target becomes available, most people will fire what they have loaded rather than lose a firing opportunity while they're changing ammo. Even a shot that does less damage is better than losing a firing opportunity. If they've just started loading an AP round they might switch to HE and lose the couple of seconds of loading time from their AP, but most people don't spend the time ditching a fully loaded round just to switch to another type of ammo.

 

That's the same thing that happens in WoT, if you already have prem ammo loaded and a target comes into view that you can pen even without the prem round, well people usually fire the prem round anyway.

 

This idea that people deliberately go out of their way to fire prem rounds at thinly armored tanks is silly and foolish, it defies all common sense, you fire what you have loaded. It makes zero sense to switch ammo if you might lose a targeting opportunity.

 

You are laughable... People throw prem rounds at everything even lightly armored tanks.. Don't baloney me please.


Edited by RagnarokBazil, Sep 09 2019 - 06:05.






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