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SPAAG: a natural counter to Artillery, EBRs and glass cannons.


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JunkaTheAdmirable #1 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 00:50

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https://en.m.wikiped.../wiki/M163_VADS

 

^^1960s era US M163 VADS

 

*What is an SPAAG? 

Self Propelled Anti Aircraft Gun.

 

*What tank class would this be?

SPAAGS would feature as an SPG derivative with improved durability (HP) and direct fire capability. They would count as an SPG by matchmaker.

 

*Direct Fire?

Direct fire capability would feature high rate of fire guns of a small caliber, with high shell velocity and the potential to inflict severe module and crew damage with successful penetrations. The high burst rate of fire would be balanced by a a overheating mechanic, which forces the gun to shutdown after extensive bursts are fired.

 

*Indirect Fire?

SPAAGs in indirect fire mode would intercept incoming artillery shells above a tank within a given area denial radius, using controlled bursts.

 

*Ammunition? 

-APCR would be the standard shell type, with high shell velocity and reasonable penetration.

-Incendiary ammunition would work similar to HE with low penetration but increased chance of damaging modules and crew with successful penetration.

-AA rounds would be the only type capable of intercepting artillery, but are nearly useless against tanks.

 

*Limitations?

High rate of fire and limited ammo would make proper balance of ammunition types key to the SPAAG being successful on the battlefield. Most SPAAGs have good mobility but poor armor, allowing for flexibility in flanking overmatched targets or countering thinly armored vehicles like FV4005s or EBR 105s.

 


Edited by JunkaTheAdmirable, Sep 12 2019 - 01:14.


alphadogg64 #2 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 00:51

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How about no

JunkaTheAdmirable #3 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 00:54

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View Postalphadogg64, on Sep 12 2019 - 00:51, said:

How about no

 

Are you an arty player? Cause anyone who hates arty should love this.



Sam_Sanister #4 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 00:55

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Or just give the MT-25 its autoloader back, with the APCR as standard rounds.

atila_xD #5 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 00:56

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alphadogg64 #6 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 00:59

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Sep 11 2019 - 23:54, said:

 

Are you an arty player? Cause anyone who hates arty should love this.

 

And yet I hate it



Flarvin #7 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:02

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Sep 11 2019 - 18:54, said:

Are you an arty player? Cause anyone who hates arty should love this.

 

I love moronic forum logic. lol 



the_dude_76 #8 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:04

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Sep 11 2019 - 17:54, said:

 

Are you an arty player? Cause anyone who hates arty should love this.

 

Most people don't hate arty so most people aren't going to love this...



JunkaTheAdmirable #9 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:09

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Sep 12 2019 - 01:04, said:

 

Most people don't hate arty so most people aren't going to love this...

 

There is zero counter to arty currently other than hiding behind buildings or rocks, this would balance gameplay and clever SPAAG players will try to anticipate where enemy arty will shoot next. 


Edited by JunkaTheAdmirable, Sep 12 2019 - 01:09.


Blocksupstudios #10 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:20

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have you ever fought against a wirbelwind? it is in fact, pure torture

heavymetal1967 #11 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:30

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Sep 11 2019 - 20:09, said:

 

There is zero counter to arty currently other than hiding behind buildings or rocks, this would balance gameplay and clever SPAAG players will try to anticipate where enemy arty will shoot next. 

 

There is counter battery (tracers have been fixed for some time now) and if it's not being attempted to whomever's liking what makes anyone think SPAAG drivers will attempt their counter measures any more or less.

 

And using tracers to counter the actual shell seems a little too late to be effective.

 

And trying to anticipate where an arty will shoot?  Then the SPAAG will have to be in relative proximity with it's low caliber MGs.  Aka up front with brawling heavies on a lot of maps. Yeah ok. 

 

From an anti-arty perspective the only thing tangible out of this is you may water down the arty in a match if they are part of the arty queue/cap limit.  Which I don't see WG doing either.



heavymetal1967 #12 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:33

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:P

Edited by heavymetal1967, Sep 12 2019 - 01:35.


spud_tuber #13 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:34

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It is also an arty nerf, which isn't needed. If you feel SPGs need a direct counter, I understand that.   However, you'll need to give arty some compensating buffs to keep them balanced.

If these things have enough pen and dpm to be a threat to wheelies, they're a threat to a lot of other mobile tanks,probably even a bigger threat to them.(this may be part of cky's objection)  I'm not sure how to address this, but maybe you have ideas.

Further, I think there will be considerable dislike of the high module damage and crew kills. (This also may be part of cky's objection)

There's also how the MM balances these vs regular SPGs, and how that would effect gameplay.  You may need to further consider this, and if perhaps MM needs to do more than just lump them in as a normal SPG.

Also, there's the consideration of what these might do to turtle strats in organized play.  Seems like a buff to such strats.  Is that by design?

On the whole, I'd say your idea needs more thought if you're serious about it.

heavymetal1967 #14 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:35

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View Postatila_xD, on Sep 11 2019 - 19:56, said:

--snip--

 

LOL too big to post without snipping. :P

 

Despite my reply plus one cause you may be correct.



ProfessionalFinn #15 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:47

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View Postatila_xD, on Sep 11 2019 - 15:56, said:

My big fat tummy hurts from laughter after seeing this!  LOL



JunkaTheAdmirable #16 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:47

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View Postheavymetal1967, on Sep 12 2019 - 01:30, said:

 

There is counter battery (tracers have been fixed for some time now) and if it's not being attempted to whomever's liking what makes anyone think SPAAG drivers will attempt their counter measures any more or less.

 

And using tracers to counter the actual shell seems a little too late to be effective.

 

And trying to anticipate where an arty will shoot?  Then the SPAAG will have to be in relative proximity with it's low caliber MGs.  Aka up front with brawling heavies on a lot of maps. Yeah ok. 

 

From an anti-arty perspective the only thing tangible out of this is you may water down the arty in a match if they are part of the arty queue/cap limit.  Which I don't see WG doing either.

 

SPAAGs from the 1950s onwards incorporated radars to guide fire,  its a stretch whether they would have effectively intercepted artillery shells, but real life artillery were not firing laser-accurate shells with a satellite view either. So thats a game balance issue. 

 

Id imagine it working within a few hundred meters, with an alarm when a shell is fired in the direction of your chosen area-denial radius, and the SPAAG player timing a burst that intercepts the shell trajectory. The real skill would be successfully intercepting the shell with as few shells fired as possible.



Projectile_Misfired #17 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:49

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Sep 11 2019 - 23:50, said:

*What is an SPAAG? 

Self Propelled Anti Aircraft Gun.

 

*Indirect Fire?

SPAAGs in indirect fire mode would intercept incoming artillery shells above a tank within a given area denial radius, using controlled bursts.

So part of you're proposal is to prevent arty from being able to reset cap?



Selkmanam #18 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:50

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Looks like a good idea and a new mechanic i think will do good for the game, its a counter not only for the arty but for the ebr, but its still vulnerable for other tanks to kill, but i would change the ammo types to decide the mode of the tank to a prep time, like the strv so the AAA can switch between anti arty and direct fire mode.

Vulcan_Spectre #19 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:51

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Yes, like a wheeled truck with a autocannon on the back

 



JunkaTheAdmirable #20 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 01:51

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View PostProjectile_Misfired, on Sep 12 2019 - 01:49, said:

So part of you're proposal is to prevent arty from being able to reset cap?

 

Yes that is one possible application of area defense. Lots of possibility for smart players.






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