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SPAAG: a natural counter to Artillery, EBRs and glass cannons.


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CanadianPuppy #41 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 15:53

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This sounds like it'd create more problems than it solves.

 

They'd have to piss poor accurate, compensation for a burst fire, and this would likely negate to possibility of hitting a wheelie at 85kph. How exactly would you shoot down an enemy shell, you can just aimbot + hitscan it out of the air. Equivalent of another tank shooting your shell midair and stopping it, how annoyed would you be if that happened constantly?  Your chances of hitting a shell travelling roughly 400m/s with an inaccurate gun would be slim. What would artillery do if their shots keep getting insta-shot by another player? It'd be too easy to bypass the overheating system, just don't hold down left mouse. Long reloads would be a must. And what branch would this break off from, SPGs.



ArmorStorm #42 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 16:40

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View Postalphadogg64, on Sep 11 2019 - 23:37, said:

 

What exactly quantifies as a small amount to you, buddy?

Well, since mainly it's the unicum and blunicum players that are rabid arty haters...my guess is about 5-10% of the playerbase would fit that description.  WG has stated that the majority of players are fairly ambivalent about arty in their matches.



stubmw #43 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 17:10

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If you want this anti-aircraft crap go play War Thunder.

TVWizard #44 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 17:16

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Sep 11 2019 - 18:50, said:

https://en.m.wikiped.../wiki/M163_VADS

 

^^1960s era US M163 VADS

 

*What is an SPAAG? 

Self Propelled Anti Aircraft Gun.

 

*What tank class would this be?

SPAAGS would feature as an SPG derivative with improved durability (HP) and direct fire capability. They would count as an SPG by matchmaker.

 

*Direct Fire?

Direct fire capability would feature high rate of fire guns of a small caliber, with high shell velocity and the potential to inflict severe module and crew damage with successful penetrations. The high burst rate of fire would be balanced by a a overheating mechanic, which forces the gun to shutdown after extensive bursts are fired.

 

*Indirect Fire?

SPAAGs in indirect fire mode would intercept incoming artillery shells above a tank within a given area denial radius, using controlled bursts.

 

*Ammunition? 

-APCR would be the standard shell type, with high shell velocity and reasonable penetration.

-Incendiary ammunition would work similar to HE with low penetration but increased chance of damaging modules and crew with successful penetration.

-AA rounds would be the only type capable of intercepting artillery, but are nearly useless against tanks.

 

*Limitations?

High rate of fire and limited ammo would make proper balance of ammunition types key to the SPAAG being successful on the battlefield. Most SPAAGs have good mobility but poor armor, allowing for flexibility in flanking overmatched targets or countering thinly armored vehicles like FV4005s or EBR 105s.

 

please just stay on warthunder... :facepalm:



alphadogg64 #45 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 17:21

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View PostMojo_Riesing, on Sep 12 2019 - 14:38, said:

 

Other than a couple of persistent safe-space seekers here on the Forums?  Oh, how about way less than a majority of players in WoT?  How about anyone who realizes that WHEN they started playing the game, SPG's were an integral part of that game.  Or...maybe just folks who have a life and seem to have mastered BOTH anger control and a sense of entitlement...which is thankfully, most of us.

 

So the truth is you have very little idea just how many people dislike arty, right?



the_dude_76 #46 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 19:29

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View Postalphadogg64, on Sep 12 2019 - 10:21, said:

 

So the truth is you have very little idea just how many people dislike arty, right?

 

I see people on here all of the time implying, if not outright claiming, that everyone hates arty. I can't help but notice that you don't bother calling them out even though they obviously "have very little idea" either...



_Red_Saaryn_ #47 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 20:04

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Sep 12 2019 - 00:54, said:

 

Are you an arty player? Cause anyone who hates arty should love this.

I hate Arty and this looks even more heckin bellsheep than Arty. It not only had high speed shell but also high dpm?, Higher HP pool?. Are you crazy?!. Why don't we just give Arty laser point accuracy with orbital gun arc. As well as a gun with 1000000000000alpha gun with 9k penetration in standard apcr?. I'll tell you why. Because that's stupid. Your idea is basically the same. You are trying to enhance an already OP class 



alphadogg64 #48 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 20:13

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Sep 12 2019 - 18:29, said:

 

I see people on here all of the time implying, if not outright claiming, that everyone hates arty. I can't help but notice that you don't bother calling them out even though they obviously "have very little idea" either...

 

I haven't seen anyone on the forum claim that everyone hates artillery. Direct me to a post, please.



ProfessionalFinn #49 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 20:18

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View Post_Red_Saaryn_, on Sep 12 2019 - 11:04, said:

I hate Arty and this looks even more heckin bellsheep than Arty. It not only had high speed shell but also high dpm?, Higher HP pool?. Are you crazy?!. Why don't we just give Arty laser point accuracy with orbital gun arc. As well as a gun with 1000000000000alpha gun with 9k penetration in standard apcr?. I'll tell you why. Because that's stupid. Your idea is basically the same. You are trying to enhance an already OP class 

WoT is a banquet and this poor arty hater is starving to death.



Hellsfog #50 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 20:27

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I don't have any objection to putting anti-aircraft variants of tanks into the game. They would likely be useless against heavy or moderate armor but pretty effective, I imagine, against soft tanks and wheelies.  I know this game isn't historical or realistic but having anti-aircraft guns shooting individual arty shells out of the sky is a little too science fiction for me. 

 

View PostArmorStorm, on Sep 12 2019 - 10:40, said:

Well, since mainly it's the unicum and blunicum players that are rabid arty haters...my guess is about 5-10% of the playerbase would fit that description.  WG has stated that the majority of players are fairly ambivalent about arty in their matches.

 Oh I think more players hate arty than that but ambivalence is hardly an endorsement. Least anyone forget, WG also said only 5% of all rounds fired are gold rounds. 

 

 



PJMC #51 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 21:19

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My father was a WW2 soldier and he served in Italy, France, Holland and Germany. In Holland the Germans had flooded the fields and everything was pretty much road bound other than high ground around towns, villages and farm houses. He told me the story of quad fifty AA mounts firing over the front lines from a good ways to the rear. They knew where the roads were and fired for area saturation/denial on the roads. Dad said the tracers would burn out during the bullet flight (3-4-5 miles?). His advancing element came across the result of this type of fire on a  column of German infantry caught out on the road. Wasn't pretty and treads running over bodies and body parts didn't make it any better... It will be 75 years next week since the start of Market Garden. He first started talking about his service to his youngest son on the 50th anniversary dates...

Mojo_Riesing #52 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 22:43

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View Postalphadogg64, on Sep 12 2019 - 08:21, said:

 

So the truth is you have very little idea just how many people dislike arty, right?

 

Do i know a specific number? No. Neither do you.  As others have noted, Wargaming has found pretty consistently most players are enjoying, ok with, or ambivalent to SPG's in the game. If it was TRULY a problem to the profitability of WoT you could be sure it would be gone by now.  I know, there are those who run the gamut from ambivalence to dislike, to very unhappy to (yes) the haters of SPGS.  Never said there weren't folks on that end. As bad as polls here are, most of them bear this out as well though admittedly, the accuracy is highly suspect there.

 

However i think i'm on VERY safe ground assuming that as with any Bell curve distribution...the bulk of players are middle ground the extremes are much more lighty populated and THAT includes haters.  SPG's get played too often for anything else to be true.  I'd GUESS that the more competitive, higher tier, and more proficient players tend to be a bit more anti-SPG than others but that's just a guess. It's also probably true that quite few folks just take it in stride, given they've learned not to expect consistent gratification and have learned how to keep emotions in check.

 

Now this would be about the time a guy like you checks up and now points out my "stats" aren't that great, and you make some snotty remarks because you've probably exhausted your stock of intelligent things to say. Unfortunately for you, i could frickin' care less.  :)   

 

Here's a pretty picture to cheer you up! I call it: "Kaboom from Above"

 

 

 



alphadogg64 #53 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 23:17

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View PostMojo_Riesing, on Sep 12 2019 - 21:43, said:

 

Do i know a specific number? No. Neither do you.  As others have noted, Wargaming has found pretty consistently most players are enjoying, ok with, or ambivalent to SPG's in the game. If it was TRULY a problem to the profitability of WoT you could be sure it would be gone by now.  I know, there are those who run the gamut from ambivalence to dislike, to very unhappy to (yes) the haters of SPGS.  Never said there weren't folks on that end. As bad as polls here are, most of them bear this out as well though admittedly, the accuracy is highly suspect there.

 

However i think i'm on VERY safe ground assuming that as with any Bell curve distribution...the bulk of players are middle ground the extremes are much more lighty populated and THAT includes haters.  SPG's get played too often for anything else to be true.  I'd GUESS that the more competitive, higher tier, and more proficient players tend to be a bit more anti-SPG than others but that's just a guess. It's also probably true that quite few folks just take it in stride, given they've learned not to expect consistent gratification and have learned how to keep emotions in check.

 

Now this would be about the time a guy like you checks up and now points out my "stats" aren't that great, and you make some snotty remarks because you've probably exhausted your stock of intelligent things to say. Unfortunately for you, i could frickin' care less.  :)   

 

 

 

If such a small part of the community dislikes artillery as you seem to think, then why haven't WG released any new artillery since 2013, and why is it that there are only two premium artillery?

 

Could it be because WG knows that quite a large portion of the playerbase dislikes artillery, and that it has already driven away quite a large amount of players? You mentioned something along the lines of "if it's so bad, why is it still in the game?" Obviously, there are quite a few arty players too, but WG has been "pandering" (if you will) to the anti-arty side more by constantly working to reduce the effectiveness of artillery, starting at 9.18 and continuing into the March - April patch of this year where they flat out nerfed artillery because (and I'm directly quoting WarGaming here) "most players weren't completely happy with the stun mechanics".

 

Why would they "pander" to such a small group of people? Why do they listen to the anti-arty crowd, but rarely listen to people on other subjects such as vehicle balance?

Also, artillery is a good class for autistic people https://ritastatusreport.live/2017/05/30/artillery-is-a-good-class-for-autistic-people/


Edited by alphadogg64, Sep 12 2019 - 23:32.


Das_Junka #54 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 00:06

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View Post_Red_Saaryn_, on Sep 12 2019 - 20:04, said:

I hate Arty and this looks even more heckin bellsheep than Arty. It not only had high speed shell but also high dpm?, Higher HP pool?. Are you crazy?!. Why don't we just give Arty laser point accuracy with orbital gun arc. As well as a gun with 1000000000000alpha gun with 9k penetration in standard apcr?. I'll tell you why. Because that's stupid. Your idea is basically the same. You are trying to enhance an already OP class 

 

SPAAGs wouldnt be able to attack other tanks in indirect fire mode, they could only shoot down enemy SPG shells.


Edited by JunkaTheAdmirable, Sep 13 2019 - 00:08.


Das_Junka #55 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 00:11

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View PostHellsfog, on Sep 12 2019 - 20:27, said:

.  I know this game isn't historical or realistic but having anti-aircraft guns shooting individual arty shells out of the sky is a little too science fiction for me. 

 

 

 1960s artillery pieces firing laser-guided shells using a zoomed in satellite isn't sci-fi?


Edited by JunkaTheAdmirable, Sep 13 2019 - 00:13.


Hellsfog #56 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 01:31

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View PostJunkaTheAdmirable, on Sep 12 2019 - 18:11, said:

 

 1960s artillery pieces firing laser-guided shells using a zoomed in satellite isn't sci-fi?

 

No, it's a broken game mechanic. Let's add another broken mechanic cause that is so much better. 



Das_Junka #57 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 20:38

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View PostHellsfog, on Sep 13 2019 - 01:31, said:

 

No, it's a broken game mechanic. Let's add another broken mechanic cause that is so much better. 

 

So first it's too sci-fi, now its broken. Do you have any argument of substance to make?


Edited by JunkaTheAdmirable, Sep 13 2019 - 20:39.


alphadogg64 #58 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 23:18

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View PostMojo_Riesing, on Sep 12 2019 - 21:43, said:

 

Do i know a specific number? No. Neither do you.  As others have noted, Wargaming has found pretty consistently most players are enjoying, ok with, or ambivalent to SPG's in the game. If it was TRULY a problem to the profitability of WoT you could be sure it would be gone by now.  I know, there are those who run the gamut from ambivalence to dislike, to very unhappy to (yes) the haters of SPGS.  Never said there weren't folks on that end. As bad as polls here are, most of them bear this out as well though admittedly, the accuracy is highly suspect there.

 

However i think i'm on VERY safe ground assuming that as with any Bell curve distribution...the bulk of players are middle ground the extremes are much more lighty populated and THAT includes haters.  SPG's get played too often for anything else to be true.  I'd GUESS that the more competitive, higher tier, and more proficient players tend to be a bit more anti-SPG than others but that's just a guess. It's also probably true that quite few folks just take it in stride, given they've learned not to expect consistent gratification and have learned how to keep emotions in check.

 

Now this would be about the time a guy like you checks up and now points out my "stats" aren't that great, and you make some snotty remarks because you've probably exhausted your stock of intelligent things to say. Unfortunately for you, i could frickin' care less.  :)   

 

Here's a pretty picture to cheer you up! I call it: "Kaboom from Above"

 

 

 

 

View Postalphadogg64, on Sep 12 2019 - 22:17, said:

 

If such a small part of the community dislikes artillery as you seem to think, then why haven't WG released any new artillery since 2013, and why is it that there are only two premium artillery?

 

Could it be because WG knows that quite a large portion of the playerbase dislikes artillery, and that it has already driven away quite a large amount of players? You mentioned something along the lines of "if it's so bad, why is it still in the game?" Obviously, there are quite a few arty players too, but WG has been "pandering" (if you will) to the anti-arty side more by constantly working to reduce the effectiveness of artillery, starting at 9.18 and continuing into the March - April patch of this year where they flat out nerfed artillery because (and I'm directly quoting WarGaming here) "most players weren't completely happy with the stun mechanics".

 

Why would they "pander" to such a small group of people? Why do they listen to the anti-arty crowd, but rarely listen to people on other subjects such as vehicle balance?

Also, artillery is a good class for autistic people https://ritastatusreport.live/2017/05/30/artillery-is-a-good-class-for-autistic-people/

 

Take it that I win then? Thanks for playing, Mojo.



Mojo_Riesing #59 Posted Sep 16 2019 - 13:38

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View Postalphadogg64, on Sep 14 2019 - 14:18, said:

 

 

Take it that I win then? Thanks for playing, Mojo.

 

No...you don't. 



Beepboopbeep_1 #60 Posted Sep 16 2019 - 14:12

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View Postalphadogg64, on Sep 14 2019 - 23:18, said:

 

 

Take it that I win then? Thanks for playing, Mojo.

Far from it but you can keep your participation trophy...at least that way you can keep believing you're a winner.






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