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What in the... WHY?


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BlackFive #1 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 04:52

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Why is this such a thing?

.

What in the Why.jpg

 

I can't tell whether I'm playing TDs or Mediums wrong at this point.


Edited by BlackFive, Sep 12 2019 - 04:54.


bad_73 #2 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 04:55

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Everyone wants that double bush cheat...cheatin wg ways is all.

Tao_Te_Tomato #3 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 04:57

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Two bodyguards?  You seem to need them....  :P

GeorgePreddy #4 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 05:39

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View PostBlackFive, on Sep 12 2019 - 00:52, said:

Why is this such a thing?

.

What in the Why.jpg

 

I can't tell whether I'm playing TDs or Mediums wrong at this point.

 

None of you 3 are playing "wrong".  (or wrongly, which is grammatically correct)

 

There's nothing wrong with medium tanks using soft (or hard) cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 



BlackFive #5 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 05:52

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Sep 12 2019 - 05:39, said:

 

None of you 3 are playing "wrong".  (or wrongly, which is grammatically correct)

 

There's nothing wrong with medium tanks using soft (or hard) cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Check out the timer.  And the minimap



death_stryker #6 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 06:19

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Your team lemminged city, so camping the back corner isn't as bad as it looks. All three of you should have moved up at the start to punish the initial E6 cross, but afterwards I think camping the corner was okay, as a few tanks needed to die in the city brawl before you guys could realistically have made your next move. If your team overpushes the city, then staying back is correct as the enemies might then push 8-9-0. If your team gets stalled in the city, then you can make a decision as to whether to push up or relocate.



Pipinghot #7 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 06:20

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View PostBlackFive, on Sep 11 2019 - 22:52, said:

I can't tell whether I'm playing TDs or Mediums wrong at this point.

Why only one, why can't it be both?

 

(just kidding with you)



VooDooKobra #8 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 06:49

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View Postbad_73, on Sep 11 2019 - 20:55, said:

Everyone wants that double bush cheat...cheatin wg ways is all.

how is double bush a cheat?  what rule is it breaking?



Avalon304 #9 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 07:19

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View PostBlackFive, on Sep 11 2019 - 21:52, said:


Check out the timer.  And the minimap

 

I mean... with no support in the field.... I wouldnt be pushing it either. This is making the best of a bad deployment.



Trakks #10 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 07:20

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Sep 12 2019 - 05:49, said:

how is double bush a cheat?  what rule is it breaking?

View PostVooDooKobra, on Sep 12 2019 - 05:49, said:

how is double bush a cheat?  what rule is it breaking?

Not a cheat but is a pretty cheesy way to avoid being hit.



VooDooKobra #11 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 08:19

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View PostTrakks, on Sep 11 2019 - 23:20, said:

Not a cheat but is a pretty cheesy way to avoid being hit.

if i am in a TD with thin armor, or a passive scout, or any vehicle that needs to stay hidden isnt that what i should be doing?  making it as hard as possible for tanks with guns that will pen me to be able to shoot at me?



TankFullOfBourbon #12 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 09:59

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Never mind. I didn't realize that everyone except the two mediums, the TD, and one more tank went downtown. Not much to do.

Edited by TankFullOfBourbon, Sep 12 2019 - 10:01.


BlackFive #13 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 12:10

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Very interesting responses.

 

Now I'm even more confused... Because in either of those tanks (and I own both) I'd have been counter scouting and lighting the Ridge - and yet yall say that blind camping (the downside of double booshing without eyes forward) is... Acceptable?

 

For two of the best performing Tier X MEDS!?! 

 

Wow 



GenPanzer #14 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 13:01

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View PostBlackFive, on Sep 12 2019 - 06:10, said:

Very interesting responses.

 

Now I'm even more confused... Because in either of those tanks (and I own both) I'd have been counter scouting and lighting the Ridge - and yet yall say that blind camping (the downside of double booshing without eyes forward) is... Acceptable?

 

For two of the best performing Tier X MEDS!?! 

 

Wow 

 

You have to understand that everyone else's response is based on WN8 numbers. Everyone thinks about this over any team play or winning. They will do whatever it takes to ensure they have good WN8 numbers. The new meta in this game is selfish play; damn the team.



BlackFive #15 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 14:06

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View PostGenPanzer, on Sep 12 2019 - 13:01, said:

 

You have to understand that everyone else's response is based on WN8 numbers. Everyone thinks about this over any team play or winning. They will do whatever it takes to ensure they have good WN8 numbers. The new meta in this game is selfish play; damn the team.

Another reason I lost interest in WNx so long ago 



Avalon304 #16 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:21

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View PostBlackFive, on Sep 12 2019 - 04:10, said:

Very interesting responses.

 

Now I'm even more confused... Because in either of those tanks (and I own both) I'd have been counter scouting and lighting the Ridge - and yet yall say that blind camping (the downside of double booshing without eyes forward) is... Acceptable?

 

For two of the best performing Tier X MEDS!?! 

 

Wow 

 

Theres 4 tanks on your team in the field. 4. And what we can see of the enemy team places an Obj. 430, an E 100 (and one other tank, which looks like a T-55A) in field or in a position that counters your positions in field, and that completely ignores anything else they may have there thats not yet been spotted (almost certainly a couple of TDs and maybe another medium or two). Best case scenario, based on that image, its a fair fight in field and thats not something you want. Worst case scenario they have tons more stuff there and your 2 Bats, the Obj. 430 and you die a horrible death because you pushed a flank that was not supported.

 

These responses arent based on "hurr durr gotta have good stats by any means necessary" mostly because playing like this isnt going to get high numbers most times. The responses youve gotten are based on having a brain and being able to play smartly. You dont push a flank alone, or when you are at a disadvantage. The BatChat is a strong tank, but it gets 5 shells before it has to engage in a very very long reload, and its gun handling isn't exactly the best thing in the world. Onces its drum is empty, its a very vulnerable tank and if the enemy team has any sort of meaningful presence in field other that what your image shows then it would be very easy for the two bats to get completely caught out and die after they dump their drum.

 

Your team has deployed city, so your two bats and the 430 have made the best of a bad situation, and set up in places they can potentially defend and fall back from instead of overextending and dieing uselessly. And if your team meets a massive force of the enemy in city you can then make an educated guess about what you'll see in field and decide if you can push it or not. The notion of your post seems to be "top tiers should always be pushing not camping the back of the map" but thats a dumb premise in the first place, because unchecked aggression often results in dying early before you can accomplish anything meaningful in the match.


Edited by Avalon304, Sep 12 2019 - 19:16.


Peak_Bagger #17 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:50

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View PostAvalon304, on Sep 12 2019 - 18:21, said:

 

Theres 4 tanks on your team in the field. 4. And what we can see of the enemy team places an Obj. 430, an E 100 (and one other tank, which looks like a T-55A) in field or in a position that counters your positions in field, and that completely ignores anything else they may have there thats not yet been spotted (almost certainly a couple of TDs and maybe another medium or two). Best case scenario, based on that image, its a fair fight in field and thats not something you want. Worst case scenario they have tons more stuff there and your 2 Bats, the Obj. 430 and you die a horrible death because you pushed a flank that was not supported.

 

These responses are based on "hurr durr gotta have good stats by any means necessary" mostly because playing like this isnt going to get high numbers most times. The responses youve gotten are based on having a brain and being able to play smartly. You dont push a flank alone, or when you are at a disadvantage. The BatChat is a strong tank, but it gets 5 shells before it has to engage in a very very long reload, and its gun handling isn't exactly the best thing in the world. Onces its drum is empty, its a very vulnerable tank and if the enemy team has any sort of meaningful presence in field other that what your image shows then it would be very easy for the two bats to get completely caught out and die after they dump their drum.

 

Your team has deployed city, so your two bats and the 430 have made the best of a bad situation, and set up in places they can potentially defend and fall back from instead of overextending and dieing uselessly. And if your team meets a massive force of the enemy in city you can then make an educated guess about what you'll see in field and decide if you can push it or not. The notion of your post seems to be "top tiers should always be pushing not camping the back of the map" but thats a dumb premise in the first place, because unchecked aggression often results in dying early before you can accomplish anything meaningful in the match.


This is a fantastic analysis! I love seeing summaries and explanations like this from good players. Thanks for taking the time to sum this up, Avalon! Minimap analysis and response is something I've got to get much better at.



BlackFive #18 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:52

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View PostAvalon304, on Sep 12 2019 - 18:21, said:

 

Theres 4 tanks on your team in the field. 4. And what we can see of the enemy team places an Obj. 430, an E 100 (and one other tank, which looks like a T-55A) in field or in a position that counters your positions in field, and that completely ignores anything else they may have there thats not yet been spotted (almost certainly a couple of TDs and maybe another medium or two). Best case scenario, based on that image, its a fair fight in field and thats not something you want. Worst case scenario they have tons more stuff there and your 2 Bats, the Obj. 430 and you die a horrible death because you pushed a flank that was not supported.

 

....

 

Your team has deployed city, so your two bats and the 430 have made the best of a bad situation, and set up in places they can potentially defend and fall back from instead of overextending and dieing uselessly. And if your team meets a massive force of the enemy in city you can then make an educated guess about what you'll see in field and decide if you can push it or not. The notion of your post seems to be "top tiers should always be pushing not camping the back of the map" but thats a dumb premise in the first place, because unchecked aggression often results in dying early before you can accomplish anything meaningful in the match.


Yep - 4 of us in the field.  We had two Bats, the 430, and me.  Yes - a likely 'parity, not over-match' situation.  … and yes, the possibility of being over-matched.  What is lacking is information.

.

And this is the thing that bothers me.  Again, I point out the time-stamp.

.

Not one of our 3 Top Tier Meds decided to take the 'lets get an aggressive look / gather information' run through the field.  Not the most-likely to survive being shot at RUMed, nor either of the So-fast-I-Could-Be-a-Scout Bats.  Instead, the two that were near me jostled with me during the whole deployment phase to see who could get to the 'good booshes'.  The other went straight for the building you see him at and stopped.  So right off the bat* we have a problem.  Without 45 seconds having passed into the match, we have ceded any/all information gathering to the Red Team.

.

I will agree, that those are (usually / often) great defensive positions.  They are also exceptionally flawed positions when your team does not have 'eyes forward'.  The problem being that when you can, finally, detect someone from either boosh - they can also detect you the moment you shoot; and then all their friends back at the ridgeline (double bushed or not) can fire upon you from multiple angles.  The positions are only good when you have EYES FORWARD.  Which we did not.

.

And with absolutely no effort to 'keep the Red Team' honest, there was nothing to keep their 'back of the field, good defensive position' campers from moving up... all the way up... to the ridgeline and city.

 

I doubt that this blind camping strat did anything positive for anyone's WN8 scores - and so not only was the initial deployment flawed, the entire mentality of our Meds was flawed from before the timer ever stopped clicking.

.

(pun acknowledged)



BlackFive #19 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:53

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View PostPeak_Bagger, on Sep 12 2019 - 18:50, said:


This is a fantastic analysis! I love seeing summaries and explanations like this from good players. Thanks for taking the time to sum this up, Avalon! Minimap analysis and response is something I've got to get much better at.


Check out the Counter- Analysis.  What he says makes sense for a single Med, perhaps one of the Bats.  Not all 3.


Edited by BlackFive, Sep 12 2019 - 18:53.


GeorgePreddy #20 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:55

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View PostBlackFive, on Sep 12 2019 - 01:52, said:


Check out the timer.  And the minimap

 

Borrowed this from Avalon, they said it as good as I could (maybe better):

 

There are 4 tanks on your team in the field. 4. And what we can see of the enemy team places an Obj. 430, an E 100 (and one other tank, which looks like a T-55A) in field or in a position that counters your positions in field, and that completely ignores anything else they may have there thats not yet been spotted (almost certainly a couple of TDs and maybe another medium or two). Best case scenario, based on that image, its a fair fight in field and thats not something you want. Worst case scenario they have tons more stuff there and your 2 Bats, the Obj. 430 and you die a horrible death because you pushed a flank that was not supported.

 

These responses are based on "hurr durr gotta have good stats by any means necessary" mostly because playing like this isnt going to get high numbers most times. The responses youve gotten are based on having a brain and being able to play smartly. You dont push a flank alone, or when you are at a disadvantage. The BatChat is a strong tank, but it gets 5 shells before it has to engage in a very very long reload, and its gun handling isn't exactly the best thing in the world. Onces its drum is empty, its a very vulnerable tank and if the enemy team has any sort of meaningful presence in field other that what your image shows then it would be very easy for the two bats to get completely caught out and die after they dump their drum.

 

Your team has deployed city, so your two bats and the 430 have made the best of a bad situation, and set up in places they can potentially defend and fall back from instead of overextending and dieing uselessly. And if your team meets a massive force of the enemy in city you can then make an educated guess about what you'll see in field and decide if you can push it or not. The notion of your post seems to be "top tiers should always be pushing not camping the back of the map" but thats a dumb premise in the first place, because unchecked aggression often results in dying early before you can accomplish anything meaningful in the match.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 






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