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Adjusting the T110E5: Fixing it with no buffs or nerfs

heavy balance rework cupola

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ZePaladin #1 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 17:53

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Hey guys,

 

I know there has probably been dozens of posts with regards to fixing the T110E5. However, most typically talk about adding armor values to compensate for nerfs it received a few years back now. I think the solution, however, is much simpler than many realize.

 

I believe after the T110E5 nerf in 9.17, patch 9.20 delivered a major change to the M48 Patton along with the M46 as well. These updates buffed the turret armor values for each. However, the M48 received some cosmetic adjustments as well. It received the A5 turret variant which took away the machine gun encasement and gave it a smaller cupola instead. This portion, to many, was mainly an ease of life adjustment that was well received.The weakspot was still prevalent, but not a full-blow tumor. I mean, after all, how often do you hear people claiming the M48 currently is busted? With all that being said, I think the T110E5 could receive a similar treatment as well, and potentially the M103 (this I may talk about at a later date if this is well received...fingers crossed). 

 

With regards to the E5, one of two things could therefore be reasonable. Firstly, a rework of the cupola altogether. Wargaming could take the model that resides on the M103 and adjust the T110E5 turret accordingly. After all, this was a project tank that never even saw production. Or, take the cupola render from the E3 and E4 variants, as the shape is similar but notably smaller. This wouldn't break the T110E5 again, but would likely improve its chances of not being cupola-sniped to death.

 

Another alternative is giving the T110E5 the old T29 treatment. Now, I realize that this may sound bad, but what I'm proposing is this: instead of making the entire mini-turret a non-hit box, you only make the base part of the armor model. If you look at the model, the mini turret is broken into two parts, which roughly would halve the size of the hit box. This method may be a bit much, as there's obviously more effort invested into a relatively minute issue but it is an option nonetheless. 

 

Let me know what you guys think below! Thanks!

 

 

 



2nd_Half_Of_Whole_Idiot #2 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:01

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as one of the leading authorities on the t110e5 in pub matches, the tank is one of the truly balanced tanks in the game

 

 

pretty much everything else is overpowered, which by contrast makes this tank look underpowered

 

no changes are needed at this point



enya1ius #3 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:08

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View Posttigerajk, on Sep 12 2019 - 17:01, said:

as one of the leading authorities on the t110e5 in pub matches, the tank is one of the truly balanced tanks in the game

 

 

pretty much everything else is overpowered, which by contrast makes this tank look underpowered

 

no changes are needed at this point

this logic doesnt check... if everything else is better, isnt that by definition making the e5 underpowered and therefore not balanced for the current game?


Edited by enya1ius, Sep 12 2019 - 18:09.


2nd_Half_Of_Whole_Idiot #4 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:12

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View Postenya1ius, on Sep 12 2019 - 17:08, said:

this logic doesnt check... if everything else is better, isnt that by definition making the e5 underpowered and therefore not balanced for the current game?

the cycle of making everything overpowered is how we got to the cheiftain and the obj. 279e and the version 4.....you want more of that?



2nd_Half_Of_Whole_Idiot #5 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:13

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also, the super buffed e5...still no match for today's super conq

Avalon304 #6 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:26

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View Postenya1ius, on Sep 12 2019 - 10:08, said:

this logic doesnt check... if everything else is better, isnt that by definition making the e5 underpowered and therefore not balanced for the current game?

 

Logic checks out fine. If something is balanced and everything else is overtuned, to the point of not being balanced, the balanced thing is not the problem. Neither the T110E5 or the M103 need any buffs at this point. Both are balanced well, other tanks (mainly other tier 10 heavies, need nerfs to bring them into balance, though the Conqueror and the AMX M4 51 also need some nerfs).



GeorgePreddy #7 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:37

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Your thread is funny... because, first you say this:

 

Adjusting the T110E5: Fixing it with no buffs or nerfs



madogthefirst #8 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:40

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View PostAvalon304, on Sep 12 2019 - 09:26, said:

 

Logic checks out fine. If something is balanced and everything else is overtuned, to the point of not being balanced, the balanced thing is not the problem. Neither the T110E5 or the M103 need any buffs at this point. Both are balanced well, other tanks (mainly other tier 10 heavies, need nerfs to bring them into balance, though the Conqueror and the AMX M4 51 also need some nerfs).

I'd like to see a turret roof buff on the M103 but other than that it is fine as is.



KingofDragons #9 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 18:56

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Is it logical to not buff 2 Tanks and have to readjust every other Tank ? NO its not...  Its like saying Billy and Sam make 10 $ an hour and everyone else is making 12$ .. Hey ive got an idea.. Lets not bring Billy's and Sam's hourly rate up , which would take a couple mins lets just lower everyone one else wage which would piss off the other 50 people...

 

The E5 and 103 need buffing for the average player to be competitive ...


Edited by KingofDragons, Sep 12 2019 - 18:57.


Skofnung #10 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 20:49

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Whether the E5 is underpowered, or the rest are overpowered, doesn't matter.  All that does matter is its relationship to its peers.  As things are in the current game, the E5 has suffered pretty dramatically thanks to that nerf, coupled with the trend of even more powerful additions to the game.  It is pretty obvious that it needs a relative upgrade.  Be it by means of a nerf to all the rest, or a buff to the tank itself, it does need something to make it relevant, that much should be pretty obvious at this point.

2nd_Half_Of_Whole_Idiot #11 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 21:19

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View PostSkofnung, on Sep 12 2019 - 19:49, said:

Whether the E5 is underpowered, or the rest are overpowered, doesn't matter.  All that does matter is its relationship to its peers.  As things are in the current game, the E5 has suffered pretty dramatically thanks to that nerf, coupled with the trend of even more powerful additions to the game.  It is pretty obvious that it needs a relative upgrade.  Be it by means of a nerf to all the rest, or a buff to the tank itself, it does need something to make it relevant, that much should be pretty obvious at this point.

again, even if the e5 was in the best version of itself, it still not moving the needle much in terms of tier performance ( talking clan wars because that's where it matters the most) noone would play this tank if they had a super conq anyways- or a cheiftain****

 

tanks that are worse are still the 705a, maus, e100, pz7, fv215b

 

tanks that are better, every other tier 10 heavy

 

the only thing the over buff would do is to make t8 feel even more helpless....because we all love fighting tier tens in tier eights

 

 

i don't know why you feel that way about it.......besides the balancing department is ****ed anyways......when they didnt nerf the 430u...........


Edited by tigerajk, Sep 12 2019 - 21:20.


2nd_Half_Of_Whole_Idiot #12 Posted Sep 12 2019 - 21:27

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View PostKingofDragons, on Sep 12 2019 - 17:56, said:

Is it logical to not buff 2 Tanks and have to readjust every other Tank ? NO its not...  Its like saying Billy and Sam make 10 $ an hour and everyone else is making 12$ .. Hey ive got an idea.. Lets not bring Billy's and Sam's hourly rate up , which would take a couple mins lets just lower everyone one else wage which would piss off the other 50 people...

 

The E5 and 103 need buffing for the average player to be competitive ...

there is 0 reason to play an e5 competitively with the other tanks in the game, the wz1115a /super conq cover literally every viable option.......

 

in regards to your money analogy.....why would i pay someone that does their job perfectly fine, versus my high performers getting paid more.......

 

and even then, the 2 other people named samantha and dave make billy almost worthless anyway besides having an extra body

 

 


Edited by tigerajk, Sep 12 2019 - 21:28.


Avalon304 #13 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 00:24

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View PostKingofDragons, on Sep 12 2019 - 10:56, said:

Is it logical to not buff 2 Tanks and have to readjust every other Tank ? NO its not...  Its like saying Billy and Sam make 10 $ an hour and everyone else is making 12$ .. Hey ive got an idea.. Lets not bring Billy's and Sam's hourly rate up , which would take a couple mins lets just lower everyone one else wage which would piss off the other 50 people...

 

The E5 and 103 need buffing for the average player to be competitive ...

 

No  it isnt logical to buff 2 balanced tanks rather than nerfing several overperforming tanks. What you suggest is called "power creep" and its generally seen as a bad thing by players. Game balance is not analogous to wages made by working people.

 

It IS logical to nerf the over performing tanks down to a balanced level, there by bringing the game closer into balance and avoiding further power creep.



ZePaladin #14 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 01:57

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Sep 12 2019 - 12:37, said:

Your thread is funny... because, first you say this:

 

Adjusting the T110E5: Fixing it withno buffsor nerfs

If you read what I posted earlier carefully, you’ll see where I referenced the M48 Patton turret changes. Yes, while the armor itself got buffed, the cupola was redesigned so it was still a weakspot, but not nearly as big. The cupola, then, was reworked. What I proposed does the same with the E5, no? Granted, the T29 method is probably too much. But I don’t think replacing the current cupola with a E4/E3 model would make it “buffed.” Same armor values, different looking target. Still a weakspot, just smaller.






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