Jump to content


REWARD TANKS and why it's NOT FAIR TO ALL PLAYERS

Chieftain 907 Reward tanks

  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

Tolos #21 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 13:47

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 25997 battles
  • 18,803
  • [GDF] GDF
  • Member since:
    09-22-2010

View PostGarandster, on Sep 13 2019 - 12:38, said:

Do we keep lowering par to get tanks till I just enter a code to get mine?

 

Even if WG did that some people would whine about its ' too hard to find the code ' or ' What do you mean i have to win 1 game to get the code '. 

 

Some people wouldnt be happy until WG just added the tank to their account upon logging in. Even then my guess you would get some whining about it. 


Edited by Tolos, Sep 13 2019 - 13:47.


VooDooKobra #22 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 14:01

    Major

  • Players
  • 10079 battles
  • 6,101
  • [MOVE] MOVE
  • Member since:
    04-23-2011

View PostAtragon, on Sep 13 2019 - 02:57, said:

 

Careful there could be voodoo involved

 

you called?

 

 



_Tsavo_ #23 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 14:05

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 46799 battles
  • 20,037
  • [RELIC] RELIC
  • Member since:
    02-16-2011

If you, or anyone else, wants a campaign tank,  go get one.   Nothing is stopping you. 

 

  1. Gather 30 players (or 15 dedicated guys) and go
  2. Make a plan for a certain set of maps
  3. Practice strats 
  4. Get beat
  5. Refine strats 
  6. Get beat again
  7. Finally take land, now to defend
  8. Get beat
  9. Take land again
  10. Learn and practice defense strats 
  11. Finally hold land
  12. Maybe get a tank your first campaign
  13. Now that you've got experience, you can compete a little harder for one next time

 

Not everyone will get a tank, those who want one badly enough to adapt and learn will, but those who seek easy paths or entitlement, y'all ain't gettin Jack. 

 

Want a reward tank, go get it.  Nothing's stopping you. 

 

 

Clan wars is a competition, to the victors the spoils, if you don't compete you don't get a prize. 

 

 

 

Edit: this post assumes that one is capable of not only identifying their mistakes but also learning from them.  So some of ya won't because some of you are incapable of admitting you make mistakes, let alone identify them and learn. 


Edited by _Tsavo_, Sep 13 2019 - 15:27.


H0D0R_ #24 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 14:07

    Captain

  • Players
  • 17435 battles
  • 1,928
  • [MAHOU] MAHOU
  • Member since:
    09-30-2013

View PostElevendy, on Sep 13 2019 - 07:42, said:


Yeah honestly dude you're 100% right. I wish the top clans would let new clans like YOUJO actually be in the top 20. Sick and tired of unicums getting all the rewards.

Well said br0ther



cloudwalkr #25 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 14:12

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 56412 battles
  • 6,131
  • Member since:
    04-05-2011

View PostTolos, on Sep 13 2019 - 13:47, said:

 

Even if WG did that some people would whine about its ' too hard to find the code ' or ' What do you mean i have to win 1 game to get the code '. 

 

Some people wouldnt be happy until WG just added the tank to their account upon logging in. Even then my guess you would get some whining about it. 


"what do you mean I have to win one game..."

 

cracked me up good.



Darkbee2Bee #26 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 15:51

    Major

  • Players
  • 36629 battles
  • 3,571
  • [-FG-] -FG-
  • Member since:
    06-23-2013

View PostDesert_Fox_1969, on Sep 13 2019 - 06:59, said:

But Bernie said he can have reward tanks for free. Just change the Economy system a little and give all a free reward tank. 

 

Donny promised to cure cancer, so does that mean arty is getting removed from the game?



Mojo_Riesing #27 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 16:14

    Captain

  • Players
  • 20379 battles
  • 1,696
  • [ACATS] ACATS
  • Member since:
    11-26-2011

View Post_VONSTEINER_, on Sep 12 2019 - 22:17, said:

This Game needs a Handicapping system like BOWLING, to level the playing field for all players. TOP CLANS with Unicums should be on a separate map, or have some kind of handicap to even the matches and make it fair and equal for all players and clans to win TANKS instead of the same old top 20 clans OVER AND OVER, ad nauseum. This game could be the best game in the world if there was no bias of the top 25 clans having all the TOP PLAYERS and dominating clan wars. A handicap like a thinner armor on tanks, slower speed, reduced RNG, and such as that to equalize the battles and give a little clan the chance to beat a MAHOU, G, OR OTTER. It blows my mind that he same old TOP CLANS WIN ALL THE TANKS EVERY SINGLE FREAKING TIME. THOSE PLAYERS That have reward tanks should be disassociated with the reward tanks and taken OFF THE RANKINGS at the end, given GOLD INSTEAD< as they don't need the tanks any ways. THis is my feeling, and I was ask my many to express it.
_VONSTEINER_, C.O. Retreat Hell, (Finished like 300 behind the top 2700, again, and lost the bid on the Chieftain, again) Very frustrating, as I LOVE THIS GAME, but find it difficult to beat the top clans for landings and bonuses and such. Please hear my plea. Thanks.

 

This is just an not a viable concept at all. On the other hand it does seem like keeping Clan Wars a viable "end game" component for many players is a difficult.  Rewards that consistently flow into the same hands are not ever going to be an incentive for a lot of players.  Rewards of OP tanks that then fan out to crush Random players (thinking TierVIII here) probably doesn't help either.

 

My guess is WG still considers CW the "ultimate" goal of the game, if so, it's doing a poor job getting players there, or even keeping those who do...happy.  I do and have long thought that some kind of "league" element based on skill to CW to stimulate interest but that's not gonna happen and is probably unfortunate.



eraser1 #28 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 20:45

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 19309 battles
  • 139
  • [RELIC] RELIC
  • Member since:
    07-23-2012

Unlike in real life, when you make an account in this game, your account is practically identical to anybody else making an account. The tanks you buy are exactly the same as anybody else. The game mechanics are applied to you exactly the same way as everybody else.

 

The only thing that can then differentiate players is their skill (most important), how much money they put into the game, the hardware they use to run it, and their ping.

 

Now if you wanted to come in here and complain about overpowered premium tanks, I'm all-in agreement. But I know plenty of unicums who haven't spent more than $50 (one premium tank) on the game, if even. And yet they're far better, and more successful than many players who spent several hundreds (if not thousands of dollars).

 

Wargaming have also done an excellent job optimizing the game so it runs on almost any old potato, so you can't really use the "hardware" excuse unless you're using a computer out of 2005; and I know plenty of unicums that play at 150+ ping.

 

So the only real differentiating factor between unicums and "average" players such as yourself, is skill.

Now if you're seriously advocating for WG to intentionally handicap players just for being more skilled, most of us will just laugh at you because it is straight up antithetical to the idea of a "competitive game". And that's even before we get into all the technical issues/ramifications of implementing it, and creating an "objective skill metric".

 

So really, all I can tell you is what others have already told you before. Just get better at the game, and you can get these rewards for yourself. There's plenty of players in the "top clans" who would be willing to teach you.

 

And if you are incapable of becoming a better player for whatever reason, that's ok. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't even necessarily make you a worse person. It just means that you're not too great at an online tanks game. And that's OK. I'm sure there's something else that you're good at. Just don't ask for handouts without working for it.



ThaneTyrian #29 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 23:29

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 16830 battles
  • 158
  • Member since:
    03-02-2012

I'd love to be able to BUY reward tanks for CASH.  Spending money is a penalty when one can WIN one for FREE.  OK, not FREE because TIME IS MONEY too.  But see, that's why some of the Players in WoT will never be ABLE to win a REWARD tank - we simply don't have enough TIME to INVEST in the game to do so.  OK.  So, I'm only speaking for myself.  Yes, I could CHOOSE to invest a TON of time to become a better player which would quicken my ascent in FRONTLINE, but I'm Self-employed, have a HOT WIFE who I love to spend time with traveling and hitting up concerts and sporting events and the obvious things one does when one has a HOT WIFE.  So, I will never have the time to devote to the game to Win that many vehicles (still haven't won the Stug IV cause I don't do Arty, DID win that little French Tier VI TD.  That's my progess.).  Bully for all of those players who do have the time of choose to make the time in game.  I would never want to "Dumb Down" the game so we time-challenged people could WIN a REWARD TANK like all of those skilled players WITH THE TIME can.  THAT'S unfair to THEM.  But why not let us buy them with a special designation denoting that we weren't good enough to WIN it for FREE, but we have it cause we were willing to BUY it?  Like the T34 B of IS6 B.  I would love to have the Emil 1951 as a Trainer for my Kranvagn, but I tried FRONTLINE and knew right off the bat it was going to take waaaaay to much of my time to WIN it.  So sell it as the Emil 1951 WW (Wallet Warrior) or something.  I'm fine with that.  I don't care everyone knows I couldn't WIN it. But I'd have it, and everyone who WON it would be KNOWN as WINNERS because they have the one without the WW suffix.  

 

So there's my Honest Wallet Warrior 2 cents.  I think its a FAIR compromise.  What do ya'all think?  WINNERS WIN the Clean Tanks for FREE.  NON-WINNERS BUY the ones with the Xs carved into their foreheads FOR CASH so everyone knows they didn't WIN them..... BUT defintiely NEVER "Dumb Down" the game so we less skilled folks can WIN stuff for free - THAT idea is just HORRIBLY wrong!!



Trekkie_X_C_MCMXXXIX #30 Posted Sep 13 2019 - 23:29

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 40295 battles
  • 79
  • [NEWBI] NEWBI
  • Member since:
    01-03-2015

T95/FV4201

 

what happend to my message???????????


Edited by Trekkie_Bot, Sep 13 2019 - 23:31.


Trekkie_X_C_MCMXXXIX #31 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 00:03

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 40295 battles
  • 79
  • [NEWBI] NEWBI
  • Member since:
    01-03-2015

View Post_VONSTEINER_, on Sep 13 2019 - 07:17, said:

This Game needs a Handicapping system like BOWLING, to level the playing field for all players. TOP CLANS with Unicums should be on a separate map, or have some kind of handicap to even the matches and make it fair and equal for all players and clans to win TANKS instead of the same old top 20 clans OVER AND OVER, ad nauseum. This game could be the best game in the world if there was no bias of the top 25 clans having all the TOP PLAYERS and dominating clan wars. A handicap like a thinner armor on tanks, slower speed, reduced RNG, and such as that to equalize the battles and give a little clan the chance to beat a MAHOU, G, OR OTTER. It blows my mind that he same old TOP CLANS WIN ALL THE TANKS EVERY SINGLE FREAKING TIME. THOSE PLAYERS That have reward tanks should be disassociated with the reward tanks and taken OFF THE RANKINGS at the end, given GOLD INSTEAD< as they don't need the tanks any ways. THis is my feeling, and I was ask my many to express it.
_VONSTEINER_, C.O. Retreat Hell, (Finished like 300 behind the top 2700, again, and lost the bid on the Chieftain, again) Very frustrating, as I LOVE THIS GAME, but find it difficult to beat the top clans for landings and bonuses and such. Please hear my plea. Thanks.

 

First off, 

if you were to punish skilled and talented players for being skilled and talented. This game would die extremely fast.

 

View Posteraser1, on Sep 13 2019 - 20:45, said:

Unlike in real life, when you make an account in this game, your account is practically identical to anybody else making an account. The tanks you buy are exactly the same as anybody else. The game mechanics are applied to you exactly the same way as everybody else.

 

The only thing that can then differentiate players is their skill

 

As eraser1 said, the game starts everybody everyone at the same Place. 2 players can have an Object 140 fully equipped, the stats on each tank would be the same. The only thing that separates the 2 tanks, is the players skill level. I've looked at your WN8 and you should really focus on becoming a better player. I am in no way saying I'm a unicrom. In fact my WN8 hangs around 1800 consistently. If I was still in “_G_D_” I wouldn't have any of the 4 reward tanks that I do. I 100% credit the fact that I have 4 reward tanks to “Newbi”(thanks GMZ & Lumi). If you focus on getting your WN8 higher you will have a better chance of getting into one of the top 50 clans, getting your reward tank.

 

This all being said, I do have a suggestion to help the weaker clans to get reward vehicles. Wargaming should bring back tier 8 and tier 6 campaigns with their own tank pools. 2500 Tanks@ tier 10,1200 Tanks@ Tier 8, and 600 Tanks@ tier 6. Compared to the last campaign, this would increase the tank pool by 2100 tanks. The increased amount of tanks in 3 different pools would increase the likelihood of lower skilled yet dedicated players getting a tank.

 


MRPI #32 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 07:23

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 80962 battles
  • 89
  • [CRZY] CRZY
  • Member since:
    02-20-2013
Lets get this out of the way first, I am not good at this game, in fact many nights i suck. That being said maybe someone could explain why giving O.P. reward tanks to the best players in the game helps the game.

Mojo_Riesing #33 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 15:17

    Captain

  • Players
  • 20379 battles
  • 1,696
  • [ACATS] ACATS
  • Member since:
    11-26-2011

View PostTrekkie_Bot, on Sep 13 2019 - 15:03, said:

 

First off, 

if you were to punish skilled and talented players for being skilled and talented. This game would die extremely fast.

 

 

As eraser1 said, the game starts everybody everyone at the same Place. 2 players can have an Object 140 fully equipped, the stats on each tank would be the same. The only thing that separates the 2 tanks, is the players skill level. I've looked at your WN8 and you should really focus on becoming a better player. I am in no way saying I'm a unicrom. In fact my WN8 hangs around 1800 consistently. If I was still in “_G_D_” I wouldn't have any of the 4 reward tanks that I do. I 100% credit the fact that I have 4 reward tanks to “Newbi”(thanks GMZ & Lumi). If you focus on getting your WN8 higher you will have a better chance of getting into one of the top 50 clans, getting your reward tank.

 

This all being said, I do have a suggestion to help the weaker clans to get reward vehicles. Wargaming should bring back tier 8 and tier 6 campaigns with their own tank pools. 2500 Tanks@ tier 10,1200 Tanks@ Tier 8, and 600 Tanks@ tier 6. Compared to the last campaign, this would increase the tank pool by 2100 tanks. The increased amount of tanks in 3 different pools would increase the likelihood of lower skilled yet dedicated players getting a tank.

 

 

I think you have the essence of an answer here, at least so far as Clan Wars and "intermediate" skill players go. What is lacking here is what helped wreck CW for Tier VIII and VI which is an unrestricted ability to play in ANY level.  Much as some "seal club" more highly skilled players/clans would come to the lower brackets and dominate...again. Is that fair? On one level yes, but how does that BUILD the game and promote interest in progression?  Today we see Frontline as a partial and incomplete answer.  I'll discount both Homefront and Steel Thunder since both are self-contained, don't tie into progression or promote Clan communities.  Your idea is good, but it needs to be set up as "bracketed" so while maybe you could play "up" a league, you CAN'T play "down" a league.  

 

If folks really want to see WoT grow again, addressing the aging and somewhat lacking "end game" concept needs addressing as well as how the Clan community could be better served and developed.


Edited by Mojo_Riesing, Sep 14 2019 - 15:22.


TankarinoThanosSnaparino #34 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 20:28

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 21017 battles
  • 49
  • [OTTER] OTTER
  • Member since:
    06-10-2011

View Post_VONSTEINER_, on Sep 13 2019 - 06:17, said:

This Game needs a Handicapping system like BOWLING, to level the playing field for all players. TOP CLANS with Unicums should be on a separate map, or have some kind of handicap to even the matches and make it fair and equal for all players and clans to win TANKS instead of the same old top 20 clans OVER AND OVER, ad nauseum. This game could be the best game in the world if there was no bias of the top 25 clans having all the TOP PLAYERS and dominating clan wars. A handicap like a thinner armor on tanks, slower speed, reduced RNG, and such as that to equalize the battles and give a little clan the chance to beat a MAHOU, G, OR OTTER. It blows my mind that he same old TOP CLANS WIN ALL THE TANKS EVERY SINGLE FREAKING TIME. THOSE PLAYERS That have reward tanks should be disassociated with the reward tanks and taken OFF THE RANKINGS at the end, given GOLD INSTEAD< as they don't need the tanks any ways. THis is my feeling, and I was ask my many to express it.
_VONSTEINER_, C.O. Retreat Hell, (Finished like 300 behind the top 2700, again, and lost the bid on the Chieftain, again) Very frustrating, as I LOVE THIS GAME, but find it difficult to beat the top clans for landings and bonuses and such. Please hear my plea. Thanks.

The only part of this that really doesn't make sense is handicapping tanks. Top clans can beat clans with all tier 9s if they wanted. They are still miles better players and can win with severe deficits. The only way to actually give "bad" clans reward tanks is to create arbitrary "skill" levels and only give out a certain number to each bracket. Not feasible, not fair, and not worth WG's time.



Mojo_Riesing #35 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 20:52

    Captain

  • Players
  • 20379 battles
  • 1,696
  • [ACATS] ACATS
  • Member since:
    11-26-2011

View PostTankarinoItsaTraparino, on Sep 14 2019 - 11:28, said:

The only part of this that really doesn't make sense is handicapping tanks. Top clans can beat clans with all tier 9s if they wanted. They are still miles better players and can win with severe deficits. The only way to actually give "bad" clans reward tanks is to create arbitrary "skill" levels and only give out a certain number to each bracket. Not feasible, not fair, and not worth WG's time.

 

Right there is an attitude that does not serve the game overall very well.  Welcome to being part of the problem.

 

If "top" clans ONLY competed with each other and not against less proficient clans...eventually some of them would be "bad" by your marks.



cloudwalkr #36 Posted Sep 15 2019 - 00:17

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 56412 battles
  • 6,131
  • Member since:
    04-05-2011

View PostMRPI, on Sep 14 2019 - 07:23, said:

Lets get this out of the way first, I am not good at this game, in fact many nights i suck. That being said maybe someone could explain why giving O.P. reward tanks to the best players in the game helps the game.


it breeds competition.  I wanted the reward tanks so I put forth the extra effort to become a high level player in order to get into a competitive clan capable of getting one.

 

in my opinion that is good for the game.  Blame WG for making the tanks what they are, but the fact they are there breeds competition.



Tolos #37 Posted Sep 15 2019 - 00:29

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 25997 battles
  • 18,803
  • [GDF] GDF
  • Member since:
    09-22-2010

View PostMojo_Riesing, on Sep 14 2019 - 19:52, said:

 

Right there is an attitude that does not serve the game overall very well.  Welcome to being part of the problem.

 

If "top" clans ONLY competed with each other and not against less proficient clans...eventually some of them would be "bad" by your marks.

 

Clans can only fight what is put in front of them. 

 

How is a ' bad ' clan going to get better if they don't try and play clans better than themselves ?. 



I_DIE_OFTEN #38 Posted Sep 15 2019 - 03:26

    Private

  • -Players-
  • 8150 battles
  • 2
  • [FART-] FART-
  • Member since:
    07-04-2016

View PostTolos, on Sep 15 2019 - 00:29, said:

 

Clans can only fight what is put in front of them. 

 

How is a ' bad ' clan going to get better if they don't try and play clans better than themselves ?. 

Not to agree with what the OP said, but in the most recent non tanks season my clan played against some of the well known clans and let me tell you those were MEME battles we generally knew we didn't have a chance but we gave em hell anyway. My point is it's one thing to play a clan with a slightly higher ELO than yours but it's another to have to battle against a clan that's ELO is hundreds of points higher than yours. That said, handicapping anyone because they are better than you is a crap idea. I joined up with these guys who came from MAD and other places and learned a little along the way and improved, you can too OP



_Smang_ #39 Posted Sep 15 2019 - 15:37

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 38964 battles
  • 320
  • [GOONZ] GOONZ
  • Member since:
    09-06-2013
Bad doesn't mean anything more than sub-average in the context above. You can be in a "bad" clan that's an awesome environment but performs badly. Conversely there are many medium clans that for that do fairly well in clanwars but the clans disintegrate inside 6 months. They would be considered average to good. The context is performance. As this is the competition section of the game and forum how well you compete is what your being judged on.

GeorgePreddy #40 Posted Sep 15 2019 - 15:53

    Major

  • Players
  • 14680 battles
  • 13,815
  • Member since:
    04-11-2013

View PostGarandster, on Sep 13 2019 - 09:38, said:

Do we keep lowering par to get tanks till I just enter a code to get mine?

 

Oh, man !!  NO !  Entering a code is WAY too difficult. I just want the best reward tanks to magically appear in my garage.

 

 

 

 

 

 






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users