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Need Advice Low Tier German Medium Tanks

German medium tanks

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Taylor3006 #1 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 16:29

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I recently bought the premium German medium tank, the GroBtraktor on a whim. I have a 100% crew for it and am looking for a German tech tree medium tank to assign them to. I am trying to choose between the tier 3 Ausf. A (unlocked), and the tier 4s (VK, Ausf. D, & Ausf J) that are within reach of unlocking. I like playing low tiers so that isn't an issue, just trying to decide which one of the four of them is the better tank. I plan on playing it quite a while as I don't really care to move up the tiers, only like grinding crews. 

_Smang_ #2 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 16:36

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Go toward the pz4.

Boghie #3 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 17:00

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The German lines are rather difficult to play.  Amazing how they won their early battles in these things.  They are light on armor, but their guns have good pen - if a bit lacking in damage per shot.

 

I have played the III Ausf J and the IV Ausf D.  I would choose the IV Ausf D because it is fast enough to flex the battlefield space and has enough gun to make a difference.  The III Ausf J has the III Ausf E gun (the 50mm) which is not competitive with  tiers IV+.  You will meet tier VI vehicles once you start playing Tier VI.  The IV Ausf D will penetrate many of them - and those that it cannot will teach you how to flank :-).  You do give up in-line speed to the J, but the J's gun just bounces on everything.  You probably don't want to learn 'frustration'.

 

Check out Tanks.gg.  It is a great site.  https://tanks.gg/tank/pz-iv-d

 

Another deciding factor is where you want to be at Tier X.  One of my goals are the E50s.  Looks like you have to slog through some heavies (ugh, the DW2) to get back into the medium line, then the beautiful VK 30.02 M, then dork around in non-competitive Panthers (because Russian Bias and Power Creep).  Oh, the humanity.  But, the E50s look like a blast.  That line DOES NOT incorporate any of the tanks you were looking at.  The III J leads to the Leopards - which now look like extremely mobile, hard hitting, snipers that can take map control from the enemy.  Haven't got there though.



__Worm__ #4 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 19:59

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View PostBoghie, on Sep 14 2019 - 09:00, said:

 Amazing how they won their early battles in these things. 

 

if you are referring to the early stages of WW2, Germany, even though because of sanctions and what not from WW1 and not supposed to be developing weapons, was secretly doing it.

 

When they did start their offensive they had the tanks that no on else had, caught em back on their heels so to say.

 

Because they were cranking out production of all those tanks you guys are talking about it gave the ability to win massive amounts of territory with what they called....

 

 

Blitzkrieg



madogthefirst #5 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 20:29

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PZ IV D is a good tier 4 with a decent gun, really lacks armor to not get derped by M4s. PZ III and VK 20 both share the same gun, the VK 20 are more over all armor while the PZ III is faster; gold is going to be required to make that 5cm work.

 

So fare I've like the PZ III better, so many credits lost.



Boghie #6 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 20:51

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View Postmadogthefirst, on Sep 14 2019 - 14:29, said:

PZ IV D is a good tier 4 with a decent gun, really lacks armor to not get derped by M4s. PZ III and VK 20 both share the same gun, the VK 20 are more over all armor while the PZ III is faster; gold is going to be required to make that 5cm work.

 

So fare I've like the PZ III better, so many credits lost.

 

You are a sick puppy, MadDog:teethhappy:

 

The only tier IV I have with a crew is the PzIII J because I want to pump that line someday.  I keep it to work with newer players.  But, OMG, that gun.  I love my PzIIIE at tier III, but that gun at tier IV bounces or consumes credits.  I do like the mobility of the J and it survives better than the E - and, you push to the Leopard which looks fun.  All good reasons to own it and play it.



YuuOtosaka #7 Posted Sep 14 2019 - 21:38

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Pz Schmalturn tier VI besto choice --- 

3bagsfull #8 Posted Sep 15 2019 - 06:39

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German low tier (III and IV) is pretty much dominated by their Light Tanks.    Luchs, Pz 1C, Pz II G, Pz 38(t) n.A. and the T-15 Premium, which serves as a trainer for both the Luchs and n.A with a 1:1 crew match.  By comparison, their low tier Mediums are all meh.

Edited by 3bagsfull, Sep 15 2019 - 06:41.


Taylor3006 #9 Posted Sep 15 2019 - 09:00

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View Post3bagsfull, on Sep 14 2019 - 23:39, said:

German low tier (III and IV) is pretty much dominated by their Light Tanks.    Luchs, Pz 1C, Pz II G, Pz 38(t) n.A. and the T-15 Premium, which serves as a trainer for both the Luchs and n.A with a 1:1 crew match.  By comparison, their low tier Mediums are all meh.


That is what is seems to me and is one reason I asked. The Wiki seems to agree with your "meh" assessment.  From the looks of it, I suppose everyone is right, looking to the future is probably the best way to go and just deal with the averageness of the medium tanks available. 



dunniteowl #10 Posted Sep 15 2019 - 20:07

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When you get your first Medium Tank, you might be inclined to think, "Now I have something more powerful than an LT.  I should be able to tear it up out there."

 

Don't do that.  This is not a correct presumption and, while quite normal, leads to a swift level of frustration and a bit of despair -- which, it seems, is also quite normal in that situation.

 

While your gun tends to be more powerful, you'll find that the heavier guns come with longer reload times and the dispersion may take more time to come to full closure (your dispersion ring closes to it's smallest circle) and this offsets the power to damage ratio when dealing with faster firing LTs that can move faster than you , have better concealment than you (which doesn't change while they move, only when they fire) and can still quite reliably pen your armor in lots of places at low tiers.

 

Start ensuring you have a good idea of your position on the map and where everyone on your team is as well as all the spotted and previously spotted red team units are and do your best to predict what's going on that you cannot see to plan your movements and target selection.  Like with LTs, TDs and SPGs, COVER and CONCEALMENT are important.  IN your case (MED) a level of  Vision and Spotting knowledge (and how to make the most of it in your tank/crew selection) will also be necessary for you to do well.

 

Meds are typically of four natures: 

     The first comes across as a larger, heavier and slightly more potent LT with a bit less VR for slightly better armor. 

 

     The next sort is what I like to call a True Med, which is a distinctly more powerful and more heavily amored, nearly as fast as an LT Medium Tank.  The VR might be as good as an LT and with Binoc/Optics (depending on how the tank plays) can be a good forward spotter in the right concealment. 

 

     After that comes a tank that has a hard hitting gun, thinner relative armor traded off for speed (think Cromwell) and snappy turret traverse, which sounds more like a turreted TD. 

 

     Last up, some folks call a Heavium.  It's basically a Small Heavy Tank and is meant to support the edges and flanks of a brawling situation.  They can be faster than most HVY tanks, such that they can poke, get a flanking shot in, sit there long enough to draw a turret turn from your target, slip back while allowing your HVYs on the other angle to poke and fire with Red Target's turret facing you instead.

 

 

     You have to be able to tell where, in those general terms, your Med falls AT its Tier, as Top Tier and as Lower Tiers inclusive of Bottom Tier.  In some cases, being bottom tier is going to mean you have to change roles, because your tank can't fill the bill against the up tier units, so different tactics are necessary.  And you have to sort of assess this on the fly as each battle is matched up and placed.  Even in single tier matches, there will be times you'll look at the lineup and think, "What can I do against all that?"  It's not easy, however, there's pretty much ALWAYS something you can do that can help your team.  I can also promise you that whatever it is you come up with, unless it's a yolo rush when slightly overmatched in terms of numbers, it's going to be better than a yolo rush when slightly overmatched in terms of numbers.

 

     In short, find some way to be useful.  Spot the guy on the other side of that ridge or around that corner, then back away.  Lighting a target and keeping alive (as well as preventing Red Team advancing and preventing Green Team from losing a gun) is living long enough to allow arty to come to your aid, or even for a couple of other units to reach you or get close enough for a cross fire.  They cannot reach you if you ping, "HELP!" (F7) and Then RUSH the Red Team units.  You have to survive to give them time and every second longer you can last in that moment, the longer it takes Red Team to build up momentum.

 

If you cannot Destroy, then Delay.  Mediums, in a lot of cases, allow you the speed and maneuverability to effect a good escape if you can move unpredictably and use cover or concealment to make it harder to spot you.  This makes you someone who can move across portions of a map and keep popping up in different spots, providing cross fire on unsuspecting opponents who still think you are close to where last spotted.  This is the sort of stuff that, again, depends on the kind of Med tank you might be running.  Consider those categories and figure where the Med you are piloting falls in them and see if you can find ways to make use of that for playing tactics.

 

Be flexible.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Sep 16 2019 - 21:55.


TankFullOfBourbon #11 Posted Sep 16 2019 - 18:11

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German tech tree=lots and lots of free XP

ArmorStorm #12 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 18:47

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View Post__Worm__, on Sep 14 2019 - 12:59, said:

 

if you are referring to the early stages of WW2, Germany, even though because of sanctions and what not from WW1 and not supposed to be developing weapons, was secretly doing it.

 

When they did start their offensive they had the tanks that no on else had, caught em back on their heels so to say.

 

Because they were cranking out production of all those tanks you guys are talking about it gave the ability to win massive amounts of territory with what they called....

 

 

Blitzkrieg


Radios were a huge factor as well.  Germans used them in tanks before anyone else.  Better coordination. 



Ken_McGuire #13 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 19:38

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It has been a while for me, but....

 

Tier 3 - Pz IV A was a disappointment. Looking back, I think it would be quite effective if I was not afraid to use HEAT with the short 75, but so much has changed since back then. I certainly have not heard of many people looking at it as a "keeper" though.

 

Tier 4 - Pz III J was fun. Very good mobility. Armor that can actually bounce a bit - not that you should depend on it. But the gun was underwhelming, especially in penetration. You will face KV-1's and OI's, and the 50mm needs help. If you can afford to smartly use APCR, you can get it. That said, the rest of this line is a bit underwhelming in this game.

 

Pz IV D looks good on paper, but I don't recall actually playing it. The tier 5 Pz IV H is quite good though.







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