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Did German Bison arty get it's stun removed?

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Rocker_Box #1 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 08:46

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It just me, or did the Bison loose the little bit of stun that it once had?

 

 Just asking because I've played three games with mine this week, and had one game with lots of splash for module damage. However not a single stun, in any of the three games in question.

Not going to cry if it's gone, but it will change how I place my shots in certain instances.

  



PTwr #2 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 08:51

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Check gun stats, min/max stun should be listed there if its available. Stun tends to be tier 5+ or 155mm+ nowdays if I am not mistaken. Additionally there were small stun nerfs recently. 

alphadogg64 #3 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 08:57

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It never had stun

Rocker_Box #4 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 09:18

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View PostPTwr, on Sep 17 2019 - 08:51, said:

Check gun stats, min/max stun should be listed there if its available. Stun tends to be tier 5+ or 155mm+ nowdays if I am not mistaken. Additionally there were small stun nerfs recently. 


 Thanks PTwr... found it, says Min 3.96 Max 6.6 for duration. 

Same gun as the St.Pz II that I just picked up, seven games in total between the two units without seeing a single instance of stun.  So I was just wondering if we got a nerf I didn't know about.   



Rocker_Box #5 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 10:01

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View Postalphadogg64, on Sep 17 2019 - 08:57, said:

It never had stun

 That's not what my game stats for my Bison say, 38 games with 5 stuns in total.

 

 It's good news, bad news, good news for receiving end, never stunned often. However the bad news was that was generally because if hit by that 1.5cm gun at Tier III... it was a trip back to the garage instead. 

 



PTwr #6 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 10:36

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View PostRocker_Box, on Sep 17 2019 - 08:18, said:


 Thanks PTwr... found it, says Min 3.96 Max 6.6 for duration. 

Same gun as the St.Pz II that I just picked up, seven games in total between the two units without seeing a single instance of stun.  So I was just wondering if we got a nerf I didn't know about.   

Have you done any direct hits?

Recent changes have some new mechanics that I never bothered to read, all I know it means less stun from splash and no perma-stun.

https://worldoftanks...lancing-032119/



heavymetal1967 #7 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 11:38

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It has stun.  See my sig for a list of "stun arty".  Nvm...  copy/paste.

 

Block Quote

 

Arty stun starts at 150 caliber MM and higher, but all arty at tier 7 (and higher) get stun, even the Crusader SP whose guns are under that size.  But that is with the top gun on the Crusader SP. And honestly the Crusader is best ran with the stock Bishop/Bert gun in my opinion.  If you run smaller guns on tier seven arty like the Crusader you will not get stun.

 

Other stun arty at tiers under seven.  Most (maybe all) of these only stun with the top guns mounted. 

 

T3 - German Bison.

T4 - Soviet SU-5 and German Sturmpanzer. 

T5 - American M-41, German Grille and Soviet SU-122A

T6 - All of them except the British FV 304 aka Bert

 

I've noticed the same OP.  No stun on splash shots that just damage tracks for example with the lower tier (tier 3 and 4) arty that stun.

 

OP are you doing damage or just module damage on this non stuns?

 

Stun is based on two factors.   To simplify one is based on splash radius and the other is based on damage.

 

The way I understand it it has to be actual damage to hit points of the tank.  Not module damage which is different.

 

Also consider the smaller splash size/radius of the lower tier "stun arty".  I think the hits that are doing module damage are too far out on the stun radius to be affecting stun on that part of the formula.

 

And there is no actual damage to the tank which is the other part of the formula. 

 

EDIT:

 

And I've noticed this before the stun changes.

 

 


Edited by heavymetal1967, Sep 17 2019 - 11:45.


Rocker_Box #8 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 12:03

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View PostPTwr, on Sep 17 2019 - 10:36, said:

Have you done any direct hits?

Recent changes have some new mechanics that I never bothered to read, all I know it means less stun from splash and no perma-stun.

https://worldoftanks...lancing-032119/


 I'm sure I got at least one, but with new patch update. I can't check the last replays for my Bison.  

 

My last games with my new tier IV Sturmpanzer II today.  I know I got a nice solid hit on a D.W.2, and another heavy tank that survived getting hit without getting stunned.  Those two hits I expected to see at least a small stun. 

 

That's pretty much what got the ball rolling, and generated this post. Thinking someone might have generated a stun with theirs in the last couple of days, and give me a yea/na.  I don't play the Bison often, but when I do... with only 12rds on aboard I try to get the most out of them.        



dunniteowl #9 Posted Sep 17 2019 - 15:51

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In the change to splash and stun times in the 1.5 patch, the stun dropoff radius was greatly reduced so stun damage is tied to how close you land to your target,

 

This is the announcement from WG on this:  SPG Rebalance: Changing the Stun Parameters

   

     The salient points are:

 

First:

How is the Stun Time Calculated Now?

          The maximum stun time consists of two components:

  • The first component is constant for each SPG shell and doesn't depend on the damage inflicted. In the shell settings, this value is set by a coefficient from 0 to 1, and in your Garage it's displayed as "minimum stun time" in seconds. This is one of the balance parameters of the shell - the same, for example, as penetration or velocity. This parameter is configured individually for each SPG shell, which has the ability to cause stun.

  •  

  • The second component is a conditionally variable value, which is calculated depending on the damage caused by the shell. This characteristic is not specified in the game client directly, but it's easy to calculate. This value depends on the damage, and each time it is different.

And this bit as well:

 

  1. 1. We will modify the constant component of the stun, which doesn't depend on the damage. Accordingly, we'll  increase the influence of the variable component by 5%. Using the example of the Object 261, this ratio will change from 0.45 and 0.55 to 0.4 and 0.6. This will change the minimum stun time for the Object 261 from 13.05 to 11.67 seconds.
  2.  
  3. 2. We will also modify the second component of the stun, which depends on the damage. We will change the distribution of damage from the splash depending on the distance from the tank to the center of the explosion. Now this range is from 0.5 in the center of the splash to 0.15 on the edge. We will reduce the amount of damage at the edge of the splash from 0.15 to 0.05. This will decrease all splash damage, except for cases when a high-explosive shell explodes directly on the armor. And this, in turn, will lead to a slight decrease in the second component of the stun.

 

So the answer to your question is yes, the stun was adjusted.  However, it didn't happen all THAT recently.  This article was delivered on: March 22 2019.  The actual change occurred in Update 1.5.  In that update the changes listed were:

 

SPG Rebalance

For the first time since 2017, we decided to revise the basic parameters of artillery, a truly unique vehicle class in World of Tanks. We're planning to reduce:

  1. 1) The minimum stun time
  2. 2) The duration of the stun from all artillery hits on already stunned vehicles
  3. 3) The stun time when an SPG shell hits a vehicle, which is already under the effect of a stun, if this machine is equipped with a Spall Liner
  4. 4) The amount of damage at the edge of the splash

We're also planning to rework the performance characteristics of individual SPGs in order to finetune their effectiveness after the announced changes take effect.

All of the changes above are a bit complex for a short simple overview, so read about the upcoming SPG rebalance in our dedicated piece, "SPG Rebalance: Changing the Stun Parameters," for a more details. (Which is linked above).

 

These changes occurred on 29 April 2019.

 

So they've been around as changed for four and a half months.  Has it been that long since you played your Sturmpanzer II?

 

 

The short answer, though, is, "Yes, they changed how stun works."

 

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO

 


Edited by dunniteowl, Sep 17 2019 - 15:52.


Rocker_Box #10 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 07:57

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NEVER MIND... I finally got TWO STUNS tonight out of that 15cm gun, while driving a Sturmpanzer II.   It took me 16 or so more games to finally see one triggered.  

 

One was a T-28EF-30 stunned for 5.39sec, that got hit with a non-pen for 216 damage knocking out both driver & gunner.

 

So the stun is still there, but it's rare to see one triggered. It's kinda funny being it's burst radius it only .5m short of that of the 155mm on the M41, that stuns reliably. Yet for me, getting a stun out of the german 15cm gun has been pretty rare.  Got a Ace Tanker for the St.Pz.II on my 13th game with it, however it looks like getting one for the Bison will be a harder nut to crack.     

 

Thank you all, for the information you shared!



dunniteowl #11 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 15:15

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View PostRocker_Box, on Sep 20 2019 - 00:57, said:

NEVER MIND... I finally got TWO STUNS tonight out of that 15cm gun, while driving a Sturmpanzer II.   It took me 16 or so more games to finally see one triggered.  

 

One was a T-28EF-30 stunned for 5.39sec, that got hit with a non-pen for 216 damage knocking out both driver & gunner.

 

So the stun is still there, but it's rare to see one triggered. It's kinda funny being it's burst radius it only .5m short of that of the 155mm on the M41, that stuns reliably. Yet for me, getting a stun out of the german 15cm gun has been pretty rare.  Got a Ace Tanker for the St.Pz.II on my 13th game with it, however it looks like getting one for the Bison will be a harder nut to crack.     

 

Thank you all, for the information you shared!

 

 

In your case, I believe the StPz IIs splash radius is probably close to that of a Bert or Bishop (150cm gun, 2.2m splash -- yours is probably more like 3.7m as your shells have higher pen [my 28 vs your 35] ) plus that higher pen value means your splash will be bigger.  In a startling case of anti Arty bias, the German Guns in the Wiki have NO SPG guns listed as far as I can tell.  Only the other four classes.  In the client, I cannot find the splash radius to it, either.

 

Most likely, you will have to land right beside someone, literally on the ground right next to them, or even a non-penning hit on the rear most portion (and sometimes top of hull) of the tank where the armor is weak and you'll get a nice Boom with some stun.  If you can pop a shell into a mix of three by hitting the center unit on top, you might do some decent double or triple stunning as well.

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



Rocker_Box #12 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 19:43

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View Postdunniteowl, on Sep 20 2019 - 15:15, said:

 

 

In your case, I believe the StPz IIs splash radius is probably close to that of a Bert or Bishop (150cm gun, 2.2m splash -- yours is probably more like 3.7m as your shells have higher pen [my 28 vs your 35] ) plus that higher pen value means your splash will be bigger.  In a startling case of anti Arty bias, the German Guns in the Wiki have NO SPG guns listed as far as I can tell.  Only the other four classes.  In the client, I cannot find the splash radius to it, either.

 

In the client the only place I could find the 6.5m burst radius listed, was hovering over the Ammunition for that tier III 15cm gun.

 

The best thing about going from the Bison to the St.Pz.II, is while your still carrying the same tier III gun.  You get more ammunition, and improved mobility to re-position between shots.

 

With the short range and high shell arch, they are both interesting arty to play. Anymore when I see one on the Red team, I have to rethink what is a arty safe position.     







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