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When do you drop other equipment for vents?


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Sink_Stuff #1 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 04:46

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With the ability to buy new skills with books it is possible to get very decent crews. So when is it that vents become more important than a rammer, or a vertical stabilizer? Never?

 

Or is there some point when one needs to drop previous equipment and use vents?



nuclearguy931 #2 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 04:50

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I use vents on pretty much all the tanks I have. They give a 5% bump to all the crew.

death_stryker #3 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 05:01

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The vast majority of the time, rammer and vstab are mandatory. However, the third slot is a toss-up, usually between vents and optics. In this case, the general rule of thumb is, if you can get ~445m view range with just vents, then vents is probably the better choice. Generalizing even further, if none of your third-slot options look particularly appealing, then vents is probably correct; on a lot of tanks, options like GLD or even toolbox and spall liner may look good on paper, but in practice they tend to be quite useless.

 

TL;DR: Vents good. Run vents.



RetroMan55 #4 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 05:18

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The 5% bump across the whole crew on base, or primary, skill is often more effective than say 10% for a rammer (impacting only the loader).  With Vents and BIA your crew will be at 110% for the Commander and 121% for the rest of the crew (especially effective with crews of 5 or 6).  For every 5% the Commander's skill goes up it adds 1% to the commander's bonus for the rest of the crew.  So the 5% the Vents give actually can add an extra 1% for the rest of the crew giving a total of 6%.  Thus if you have a choice of using a slot for a 10% bonus for 1 crewman, or 5-6% for the whole crew, the choice is easy.  The extra skills/perks are just a further bonus.

churchill50 #5 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 05:53

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The hierarchy of equipment is as follows:
Rammer on any tank that can mount it. 10% better reload, and thus 10% better DPM is not something you give up. I can't think of a single tank in the game where you would give up Rammer for something else.

V-Stab on any tank that can mount it. 20% improvement to gun performance on the move, and thus to aim time as well, is immense. There are very few tanks in the game where giving up a V-Stab is a good idea.

For your third slot, you have a choice: Optics or Vents.

Generally, the idea is that you want to reach at least 445 meters view range. If you need Optics to do that, then take them. If you don't, then you have a choice. On heavies, generally I would take Vents, since they're not going to be participating in vision wars anyways. On paper meds and lights on the other hand, taking Optics to get even higher view range (and thus camo-defeating ability) is generally a good idea.

Also, consider what you get out of Vents. While it's a 5% increase to crew qualification, that only translates into ~2.5% increase to most tank stats. On tanks with good reload/good gun handling, that increase can be minimal. On the other hand, on tanks with long reloads/derpy gun handling, that can be a life saver.

 

Also, many players will take Optics on most tanks while doing 3rd mark grinds. The extra assistance damage you get from running Optics can really help bump you over the edge of that mark value.

 

Also consider that you get double the effect of Vents by running food. And with the addition of Firefighting directives (which are cheap), running Food is very viable with much lower risk.


Edited by churchill50, Sep 18 2019 - 05:54.


Sink_Stuff #6 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 06:06

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Thank you all for your advice. i have recently returned to the game again and I have forgotten many things and other things have changed. i appreciate your advice. 

I_QQ_4_U #7 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 06:55

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I really depends on the tank, while vents isn't a bad choice it's usually not the optimum one since it only offers a very small increase, often in areas a tank doesn't need it, many tanks usually have one big weakness that would benefit more from a larger boost than some tiny ones in multiple places that may not be all that bad.

 

Rammers are usually a given but not always, if the tank has a very high RoF then a rammer will only give a small increase so maybe vents may help more deficient aspects of that tank.

 

Vstabs are probably the number one for sure piece of equipment to get if the tank can mount it but again not always, I didn't mount it on the T92, it has amazing gun handling already and being a light I'm generally not sniping that often. So again I mounted vents instead, mainly for that boost to VR because my crew didn't have any VR skills until recently, I also played it for some time without a rammer and had vents, optics and binocs for a full scout build though I did go back to a rammer instead of binocs just because it's alpha is so low it needs a much RoF as it can get and passive scouting is pointless on most maps.

 

Obviously vents is a given on autoloaders because they can't mount a rammer and it helps with clip reload and often bad gun handling which many autoloaders suffer from.

 

When I rebought the Tort I decided to try some different equipment layouts, currently have optics, toolbox and a spall liner. The spall liner does work but only with occasional games does it really feel like it's worth having, will probably switch to vents if just to boost repair speed even more, something that comes in useful pretty much every game in a casement assault TD.



Ikanator #8 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 07:07

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While rammers are a standard go to piece of equipment there may be exceptions. If you are dealing with a vehicle that has at least a so so reload time coupled with an atrocious aim time you might want to go with a gld. In that case the ability to get an accurate first shot off quickly may be more important than how rapidly you can miss with a second shot against a target you have to traverse to engage.

 

Right now I am running glds on my Archer and T78. Seems to be working more or less ok, but then they are snipers.  Other tanks with different roles may be better served by different equipment load outs.


Edited by Ikanator, Sep 18 2019 - 20:45.


Prediator #9 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 07:20

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I don't know why people are saying things like a rammer isn't necessary because the gun fires too fast... there is no such thing in a dpm driven game like this.  rammer first and always because if you kill him before he can kill you then you win in this game.  so yes rammer on any tank that can take it always.. very stabs on almost all tanks if you know how to use tanks.gg. if not very stabs on all tanks.  then if view rang 445 with vents then do that otherwise use optics to get your view range as close to 445 as possible.

Trakks #10 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 08:56

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Unless you have a specific need for a different piece of equipment that is more focused than vents, like Vertical Stabilizers for snap shots on the move, then Vents is probably the better option. 

I_QQ_4_U #11 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 15:34

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View PostPrediator, on Sep 18 2019 - 07:20, said:

I don't know why people are saying things like a rammer isn't necessary because the gun fires too fast... there is no such thing in a dpm driven game like this.

 

 

Because how often do you really get to use that DPM? With stealthy TD's that can sit still behind a bush and fire away sure but in you're in a heavy or medium right up front are you going to sit there and keep firing or back off after every shot and wait for an opening? So sure, if a rammer takes off close to a second or more from a reload it's definitely a given but if it takes off .2 of a second and that tank has weaknesses elsewhere then other equipment might be more useful.



dunniteowl #12 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 15:47

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View PostPrediator, on Sep 18 2019 - 00:20, said:

I don't know why people are saying things like a rammer isn't necessary because the gun fires too fast... there is no such thing in a dpm driven game like this. rammer first and always because if you kill him before he can kill you then you win in this game. so yes rammer on any tank that can take it always.. very stabs on almost all tanks if you know how to use tanks.gg. if not very stabs on all tanks. then if view rang 445 with vents then do that otherwise use optics to get your view range as close to 445 as possible.

 

If your aim time is longer than your load time, it won't make much of a difference.

 

Granted, there are very few tanks where this is true.  However, on those tanks where load time is already much faster than aim time, you will, in fact, get better overall DPM by having something that can close that dispersion ring faster than being ready to fire 10% faster when you already beat your aim time by more than 10%.  That's a shell sitting there, waiting for a gun to aim.  That's only marginally better than being fully aimed in and waiting for the shell to load.

 

Most times, though, yes, Rammer, GLD/V-Stab and Vents/Optics, depending on how you roll.

 

 

OvO



Roggg2 #13 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 15:53

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Experts tend to agree that rammer, vents, optics and vstab are generally the most useful pieces of equipment, and that most tanks should equip 3 pieces of those 4.  There are exceptions of course...EGLD on arty for instance.

 

I tend to prefer vents for scout tanks over either rammer or VSTAB depending on how gun handling is.  On heavies I will generally prefer vents over optics.  Arties get ramer vents and EGLD to optimize reload and aim time.  For mediums I dont think there's a wrong answer, and I'm probably not consistent about it.  TDs depends mainly on role and tank characteristics.  If you're not firing on the move, then VStab is less important.  In an "assault gun" style TD, I would probably go with the heavy model (ie drop optics).

 

Overall, I would guess I have vents on at least 80% of my non-arty tanks.



Flarvin #14 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 15:59

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I put vent in virtually all my tanks, that can mount one. 

 

Vents is the only equipment that improves gun accuracy value. 



Blackstone #15 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 16:02

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View Postnuclearguy931, on Sep 17 2019 - 22:50, said:

I use vents on pretty much all the tanks I have. They give a 5% bump to all the crew.

^^^THIS^^^ 

A  5% boost to ALL crew skills is worth the one time credit purchase.

If it can be mounted, I put vents on almost all of my tanks.

Next comes rammer. More DPM, the better.

After that, it depends on the tank type. Heck there are some exceptions. On my Tiger I, I have vents, rammer, and optics for example.


Edited by Blackstone, Sep 18 2019 - 16:14.


PJMC #16 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 16:04

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View PostPrediator, on Sep 18 2019 - 01:20, said:

I don't know why people are saying things like a rammer isn't necessary because the gun fires too fast... there is no such thing in a dpm driven game like this. rammer first and always because if you kill him before he can kill you then you win in this game. so yes rammer on any tank that can take it always.. very stabs on almost all tanks if you know how to use tanks.gg. if not very stabs on all tanks. then if view rang 445 with vents then do that otherwise use optics to get your view range as close to 445 as possible.


445 doesn't burn through 30% moving camo very well and the additional camo burn through of vents and optics is what I use on lights. If your trying to out DPM in a light, your doing it wrong. It might cause me to lose a few second shots when bushed up but vision control and camo is worth it.



churchill50 #17 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 18:02

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Sep 18 2019 - 07:34, said:

 

 

Because how often do you really get to use that DPM? With stealthy TD's that can sit still behind a bush and fire away sure but in you're in a heavy or medium right up front are you going to sit there and keep firing or back off after every shot and wait for an opening? So sure, if a rammer takes off close to a second or more from a reload it's definitely a given but if it takes off .2 of a second and that tank has weaknesses elsewhere then other equipment might be more useful.


That's where skill comes into this game.

Good players know how to put themselves in positions/situations where they can use their available DPM to best effect. Thus, the higher their DPM, the more they'll be able to do.

Average or less than average players tend to not be as good at this, and also tend to take more damage while dealing damage. Thus, the better their reload, the more frequently they expose themselves and take damage.

This is why average or below average players tend to do better in tanks with alpha, while better players tend to love tanks with good DPM.



_Bagheera_ #18 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 19:50

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Vents are only swapped out for optics. A few heavy tanks like the STI-T34 have such absolutely horrible gun handling soft stats that I run a GLD and Verstab on them. 

golruul #19 Posted Sep 18 2019 - 21:34

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For me, VStab and vents are mandatory for every tank that can equip them.  Reducing RNG (and, hence, me raging because of it) is my top priority.

TastyPastry #20 Posted Sep 19 2019 - 02:55

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View PostRetroMan55, on Sep 18 2019 - 00:18, said:

The 5% bump across the whole crew on base, or primary, skill is often more effective than say 10% for a rammer (impacting only the loader).  With Vents and BIA your crew will be at 110% for the Commander and 121% for the rest of the crew (especially effective with crews of 5 or 6).  For every 5% the Commander's skill goes up it adds 1% to the commander's bonus for the rest of the crew.  So the 5% the Vents give actually can add an extra 1% for the rest of the crew giving a total of 6%.  Thus if you have a choice of using a slot for a 10% bonus for 1 crewman, or 5-6% for the whole crew, the choice is easy.  The extra skills/perks are just a further bonus.

 

In the extreme case, would you want three vents or three rammers? I would think most players would pick three rammers.

 

Most tanks don't really need vents. You can replace vents with optics and that VR bump is way more useful than the slightly faster reload and aim time. 






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