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War-gaming Hates its players unless they spend money.

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VooDooKobra #41 Posted Sep 19 2019 - 08:08

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View Post2MOEJOE, on Sep 18 2019 - 19:34, said:

LOL sure buddy.Let me tell you friend WG's hates skill accuracy or anyone that bothers to outfit a tank with the best [edited].Oh and it doesn't matter how many crew skills or enhanced equipment YOUR [edited].All they do is cater to you baddies and now this is the steaming pile of crap we are left with bro.....enjoy:)

So you say WG is catering to baddies and there are baddies who say WG is catering to top clans.  Though a am curious how you feel bad players are being catered to?  Personally I don't see anyone really being catered to



dunniteowl #42 Posted Sep 19 2019 - 08:17

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View PostAxisfighter, on Sep 18 2019 - 15:52, said:

Non-paying players are treated like garbage in this game. The game creates modes specifically for people to abuse 4 tanks that you can buy and basically just doesn't care about anyone else. I don't understand why they have given up on caring about trying to get new players or even making the game remotely enjoyable for anyone other than the paying or elites. I just wish they would give a damn again but I know im asking for the impossible at this point. The game is dying and they clearly just want to suck every last penny out before it does. I guess thanks for the fun I had when I started and they cared about the game but its become nothing but a joke now. Another tanker glad to be done with hoping they change something and show any level of care.

 

I see things from a slightly different perspective.  Let me see if I can present it you in a fashion that might make you go, "Hmm."

 

Been playing since Sept. 2014 (whooo hoo, five years now) and I have had some rough moments, make no mistake.  Hell, I had a few of them just last week. :(

 

That said, I am a FTPP (Free To Play Pubbie).  I have not spent one penny playing this game.  No other currencies, either, as far as that goes.

 

WG loves the FTPP.  They are the 'ready pool of fodder' that keeps the queues full and flowing for all those paying players.  They let the FTPP play for free -- hence the acronym FTP.  They don''t care about us?  Really?  They let us play for free.  Don't have to open your wallet once.

 

In that time, WG has shown me how little they care about FTPPs and it shows.

 

Last December I got a "Well Deserved Reward" just like the paying players.  I got:

A Garage Slot Pre-filled with a

T-50-2 T6 Russian Premium LT

Pre-equipped with a Zero Skill BIA Crew

4,000 Bonds

4,000,000 Credits

 

I have also been gifted -- or have been able to win -- just as paying players can, these tanks:

TKS z n.k.m 20 mm Polish LT T2

Light Mk VIC United Kingdom LT T2

L-60 Swedish LT T2

MKA German LT T2

Pz Kpfw II Ausf D German LT T2

T2 Light Tank United States LT T2

FCM 36 Pak 40 French TD T3

43M Toldi III  German LT T3

LTP Russian LT T3

T-127 Russian LT T3

T-29 Russian MED T3

M22 "Locust" United States LT T3

M10 RBFM French TD T5

T-34 Shielded Russian MED T5

KV-220-2 Russian HVY T5

M4 Improved United States MED T5

Heavy Tank No. VI Japanese HVY T6

T-34-85M Russian MED T6

Object 252-U Defender Russian HVY T8

 

That's NINETEEN Premium Tanks, most with Zero Skill or Zero Skill BIA Crews that were 'tossed' in with the package of "WG Doesn't Care" that came my way.

 

I also currently have:

33 Empty garage slots.  Of those, I 'purchased' 4, which are left over from when I 'bought' 10 slots with Gold that I won during the Tanksgiving and Holiday Season 2019 period.  This means WG gifted me in some form, not counting the garage slots I have that came with the award tanks, 29 garage slots that are EMPTY.

 

What else?  Oh yeah, I have also been gifted or won from WG more than three total months of Premium time, including at least two full weeks total time in 'mea culpa' (that means, my bad or my fault) awards -- even to us FTPPs, the ones you claim WG doesn't care about in your OP.

 

I have sold off more of those award tanks than I listed, but I didn't recognize their value at the time.

 

Now all of this is just truth.  It's what I got from them and it's not ALL I got from them, it's just what I can readily rattle off.  I cannot count the number of Personal Reserves I have won, Consumables, Module Equipment, Gold and Extra Credits that have also rolled in as a result of WG's 'complete lack of concern' for the FTPPs.

 

I hope that you read this with an open mind and take the time to reflect on the idea that it's all on how you see things that make things the way they are to you.  In short, you can look at a situation and see only being cheated, jerked around, ignored or not listened to -- but then -- aren't you playing for free?  Exactly HOW MUCH SAY do you think you're entitled to have at that point?

 

     OR, you can examine my post and take moment and look at all the free stuff you can get even as a FTPP in this game.  

 

As a last thought, imagine someone, a good friend or parent even, provides you something for free that you have no right to expect to get free and then they listen to you complain about how dry the potatoes are, the prime rib isn't as rare as you'd like and, hey, where the hell is the horseradish, you call this a meal?

 

This is what you are figuratively doing at this point -- complaining that you don't get enough attention as a FTPP.

 

Ungrateful.  I heard someone once tell me that folks don't appreciate what they get for free.  You seem to sort of make a finer point of that statement.  Maybe it IS time for a shift in point of view?

 

 

From one Free To Play Pubbie to another, I think you might be making more of this than is warranted.  Think it over.

 


GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



Pipinghot #43 Posted Sep 19 2019 - 15:31

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View PostEricmopar, on Sep 18 2019 - 19:52, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Sep 18 2019 - 17:47, said:

You have obviously never played a game that is truly pay to win.

 

This game has a couple of features that are a tiny bit P2W, but on the whole it's a classic example of F2P, F2W. Skill is much, much more important than money here.

Oh bull.
I've had 100% crews that can't hit the broad side of a barn and their tank is slow as molasses, until you pay to convert elite XP off of things and get them up to 3 or four skills each, then the tank starts to work.

Apparently you don't understand that you can also earn that XP on the crew for free.

 

It doesn't matter whether you get 3 or 4 skills by converting XP or just by playing battles, the end result is the same. And the thing is, those 3 or 4 crew skills all put together are still less important than your skill as a player. You're still a new player, with only about 1200 battle, so maybe you don't understand this yet, but your player skill matters much more than all of those crew skills combined.

View PostEricmopar, on Sep 18 2019 - 19:52, said:

Light in particular are garbage until you get at least full camo and anything that helps spotting, plus 6th sense.

For anyone who's not really good at the game (like in the top 10%) I agree that 6th Sense is critical. I've always believed that 6th Sense should be standard for every new commander because that would make the game so much more understandable and fun for new players.

 

But other than 6th Sense, all of the other skills only help a tiny bit each. And, again, there's nothing P2W about crew skills, every F2P game has benefits that slowly accrue to the player over time by playing. A good player with bad crew skills will always play better than a bad player with good crew skills, player skill is much more important than crew skill, and you can't buy player skill.

View PostEricmopar, on Sep 18 2019 - 19:52, said:

Also, don't get me started on needing XP for those hulls that give a ship more hit points and much better rudder shift times etc. Firing range improvments etc. Paying for camo through the nose for more XP and a +4% dispersion increase on the enemies shells et.

Knowing when to buy and use a new vehicle, or a new ship, is part of understanding the game. Playing stock tanks (and stock ships) is for suckers, a smart player saves up their Free XP until they can buy some upgrades for their new vehicle, and only then do they play that new vehicle. Never play anything stock, that's just a dumb move, wait until you have enough Free XP saved up. No one is ever forced to spend money to convert Elite XP to Free XP, it's only impatient people who do that.


Edited by Pipinghot, Sep 19 2019 - 15:32.


Trauglodyte #44 Posted Sep 19 2019 - 15:34

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View Post__WarChild__, on Sep 18 2019 - 23:20, said:

I pay a lot of money and I'm pretty sure they hate me more than you.  Just saying...

 

 

If it makes you feel any better, I hate you too. :arta:



HeavyMetalSix #45 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 17:26

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View PostMarkd73, on Sep 18 2019 - 23:20, said:

Based on what credible non-anecdotal evidence?

 

All I see are feelz in your post

I have a 6 perk crew in my skorp G.  I will see fully aimed shots at tanks on Prok consistently and randomly hit Himmelsdorf.  I see the same thing with my "sniper" leo pta.  I'll watch people in battle and in YT videos rotating the hulls of their "inaccurate" russian tanks and turrets that are "pros" that randomly and consistently hit amazing shots.  There's no RNG-based rationale for these observations as we all supposedly have the same RNG......



Copacetic #46 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 17:48

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I have premium account so I get -15% to all dispersion values and +50mm to all armor values and since I bought it in a bundle I get +50mm to all pen values

Tao_Te_Tomato #47 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 17:55

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View PostHeavyMetalSix, on Sep 21 2019 - 17:26, said:

I have a 6 perk crew in my skorp G.  I will see fully aimed shots at tanks on Prok consistently and randomly hit Himmelsdorf.  I see the same thing with my "sniper" leo pta.  I'll watch people in battle and in YT videos rotating the hulls of their "inaccurate" russian tanks and turrets that are "pros" that randomly and consistently hit amazing shots.  There's no RNG-based rationale for these observations as we all supposedly have the same RNG......

 

That explains some of those weird "out-of-nowhere" ones that seem to nail me now and then!  :sceptic:

 

View PostCopacetic, on Sep 21 2019 - 17:48, said:

I have premium account so I get -15% to all dispersion values and +50mm to all armor values and since I bought it in a bundle I get +50mm to all pen values

 

Did you snag the boosters for that package that was in the loot boxes, or are you just going straight Premium Hurt Benefits?  :hiding:


Edited by Tao_Te_Tomato, Sep 21 2019 - 18:01.


khorender_1 #48 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 17:58

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View PostEricmopar, on Sep 19 2019 - 01:52, said:


Oh bull.
I've had 100% crews that can't hit the broad side of a barn and their tank is slow as molasses, until you pay to convert elite XP off of things and get them up to 3 or four skills each, then the tank starts to work.
Light in particular are garbage until you get at least full camo and anything that helps spotting, plus 6th sense.

It's the same in World of Warships, until commanders have at least 8 points, some ships need at minimum 10 point commanders, they play terrible, with very slow turret rotation, no pen on the HE, burn to the ground etc.
Also, don't get me started on needing XP for those hulls that give a ship more hit points and much better rudder shift times etc. Firing range improvments etc. Paying for camo through the nose for more XP and a +4% dispersion increase on the enemies shells et.

 


Riiiiiiiight hahahahahahahaha .



LateralusTOOL #49 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 18:01

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View PostVulcan_Spectre, on Sep 18 2019 - 16:56, said:

Please summerize what you just said

WAAAAHHHHH!



Markd73 #50 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 18:54

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View PostHeavyMetalSix, on Sep 21 2019 - 16:26, said:

I have a 6 perk crew in my skorp G.  I will see fully aimed shots at tanks on Prok consistently and randomly hit Himmelsdorf.  I see the same thing with my "sniper" leo pta.  I'll watch people in battle and in YT videos rotating the hulls of their "inaccurate" russian tanks and turrets that are "pros" that randomly and consistently hit amazing shots.  There's no RNG-based rationale for these observations as we all supposedly have the same RNG......

Perhaps I was unclear. I was asking what non-anecdotal evidence do you have for backing up your claim? You responded with personal anecdotes without any supporting evidence for even these anecdotes.

 

I must be being unclear and for that my apologies. I was asking what impartial data set do you have that is beyond your own personal performance/experience? An example of that would be the raw data sets that Neatoman has collected and shared for peer review.


Edited by Markd73, Sep 21 2019 - 19:17.


HeavyMetalSix #51 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 21:19

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View PostMarkd73, on Sep 21 2019 - 17:54, said:

Perhaps I was unclear. I was asking what non-anecdotal evidence do you have for backing up your claim? You responded with personal anecdotes without any supporting evidence for even these anecdotes.

 

I must be being unclear and for that my apologies. I was asking what impartial data set do you have that is beyond your own personal performance/experience? An example of that would be the raw data sets that Neatoman has collected and shared for peer review.

It's experience and I up until recently was tracking some data in a spreadsheet.  I think it goes back to 2014 (some entry errors exist/what I tracked evolved over time).  So yeah I have data  I'd share the ~45k battle replays I had stored so you could be that unbiased reviewer(?) but I deleted these last month.  Likely none of that data would meet your standard.


Edited by HeavyMetalSix, Sep 21 2019 - 21:21.


biggb45s #52 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 21:24

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Spent over $2500 on this game. Can confirm that WG hates me too. Went from 53.8% (and climbing) to 51.8% (and still falling) W/R when they took away the west sever and over loaded the central server. Went from a competitive 10 ping to a average 80 ping. Thanks Wargaming...... 

 

 

I no longer have intentions of doing clan stuff because of it. They only think about corporate bottom dollar gains and bonuses. Not the players, the guys that made the chess and board game that began all this or either filthy rich and greedy now or sold out and new CEO needs his 100 million dollar bonus. 


Edited by biggb45s, Sep 21 2019 - 21:36.


AllieOop2 #53 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 22:20

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View Postbiggb45s, on Sep 21 2019 - 21:24, said:

Spent over $2500 on this game. Can confirm that WG hates me too. Went from 53.8% (and climbing) to 51.8% (and still falling) W/R when they took away the west sever and over loaded the central server. Went from a competitive 10 ping to a average 80 ping. Thanks Wargaming...... 

 

 

I no longer have intentions of doing clan stuff because of it. They only think about corporate bottom dollar gains and bonuses. Not the players, the guys that made the chess and board game that began all this or either filthy rich and greedy now or sold out and new CEO needs his 100 million dollar bonus. 


Please read this an rethink the crap you just wrote.

View Postdunniteowl, on Sep 19 2019 - 08:17, said:

 

I see things from a slightly different perspective.  Let me see if I can present it you in a fashion that might make you go, "Hmm."

 

Been playing since Sept. 2014 (whooo hoo, five years now) and I have had some rough moments, make no mistake.  Hell, I had a few of them just last week. :(

 

That said, I am a FTPP (Free To Play Pubbie).  I have not spent one penny playing this game.  No other currencies, either, as far as that goes.

 

WG loves the FTPP.  They are the 'ready pool of fodder' that keeps the queues full and flowing for all those paying players.  They let the FTPP play for free -- hence the acronym FTP.  They don''t care about us?  Really?  They let us play for free.  Don't have to open your wallet once.

 

In that time, WG has shown me how little they care about FTPPs and it shows.

 

Last December I got a "Well Deserved Reward" just like the paying players.  I got:

A Garage Slot Pre-filled with a

T-50-2 T6 Russian Premium LT

Pre-equipped with a Zero Skill BIA Crew

4,000 Bonds

4,000,000 Credits

 

I have also been gifted -- or have been able to win -- just as paying players can, these tanks:

TKS z n.k.m 20 mm Polish LT T2

Light Mk VIC United Kingdom LT T2

L-60 Swedish LT T2

MKA German LT T2

Pz Kpfw II Ausf D German LT T2

T2 Light Tank United States LT T2

FCM 36 Pak 40 French TD T3

43M Toldi III  German LT T3

LTP Russian LT T3

T-127 Russian LT T3

T-29 Russian MED T3

M22 "Locust" United States LT T3

M10 RBFM French TD T5

T-34 Shielded Russian MED T5

KV-220-2 Russian HVY T5

M4 Improved United States MED T5

Heavy Tank No. VI Japanese HVY T6

T-34-85M Russian MED T6

Object 252-U Defender Russian HVY T8

 

That's NINETEEN Premium Tanks, most with Zero Skill or Zero Skill BIA Crews that were 'tossed' in with the package of "WG Doesn't Care" that came my way.

 

I also currently have:

33 Empty garage slots.  Of those, I 'purchased' 4, which are left over from when I 'bought' 10 slots with Gold that I won during the Tanksgiving and Holiday Season 2019 period.  This means WG gifted me in some form, not counting the garage slots I have that came with the award tanks, 29 garage slots that are EMPTY.

 

What else?  Oh yeah, I have also been gifted or won from WG more than three total months of Premium time, including at least two full weeks total time in 'mea culpa' (that means, my bad or my fault) awards -- even to us FTPPs, the ones you claim WG doesn't care about in your OP.

 

I have sold off more of those award tanks than I listed, but I didn't recognize their value at the time.

 

Now all of this is just truth.  It's what I got from them and it's not ALL I got from them, it's just what I can readily rattle off.  I cannot count the number of Personal Reserves I have won, Consumables, Module Equipment, Gold and Extra Credits that have also rolled in as a result of WG's 'complete lack of concern' for the FTPPs.

 

I hope that you read this with an open mind and take the time to reflect on the idea that it's all on how you see things that make things the way they are to you.  In short, you can look at a situation and see only being cheated, jerked around, ignored or not listened to -- but then -- aren't you playing for free?  Exactly HOW MUCH SAY do you think you're entitled to have at that point?

 

     OR, you can examine my post and take moment and look at all the free stuff you can get even as a FTPP in this game.  

 

As a last thought, imagine someone, a good friend or parent even, provides you something for free that you have no right to expect to get free and then they listen to you complain about how dry the potatoes are, the prime rib isn't as rare as you'd like and, hey, where the hell is the horseradish, you call this a meal?

 

This is what you are figuratively doing at this point -- complaining that you don't get enough attention as a FTPP.

 

Ungrateful.  I heard someone once tell me that folks don't appreciate what they get for free.  You seem to sort of make a finer point of that statement.  Maybe it IS time for a shift in point of view?

 

 

From one Free To Play Pubbie to another, I think you might be making more of this than is warranted.  Think it over.

 


GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO

 



DrWho_ #54 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 22:48

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View Post2MOEJOE, on Sep 19 2019 - 03:54, said:

Let me tell ya this [edited]game is absolute [edited] and when I run out of credits in multiple accounts I'm done with this [edited]game.All of ya are fools for giving these stupid [edited]Russians your money or time .I mean I was quite the dumb [edited]after update  9.18 9.19 sticking around I should have said to myself hey it's over but I had a lot of time and money invested so I stuck it out  but it's its toast now.This game is [edited] it really is.

 

So basically you feel this game is horrible but because one or more of your accounts have some resources in them you're gonna make yourself miserable by playing a horrible game just because you don't want to see those resources going to waste ..... ?



biggb45s #55 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 00:52

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View PostAllieOop2, on Sep 21 2019 - 21:20, said:


Please read this an rethink the crap you just wrote.

 

Stupid question, stupid answer? wth you want an educated argument to the same stupid crap that comes up over and over. Just like most corporations in the world WG executives and shareholders only care about there performance bonuses (cash based off how much money they make). So they could fix a lot of our problems by throwing money at it and hiring people to code, respond to costumer complaints, moderate match’s by paying people gold to play the game and still have moderation powers, MM issues, graphics issues, server location, server upgrades, server upkeep, did I miss anything? No they take the bonus cut corners and run on minimum. They could of kept east, west and then a central server. Then let them grow? No screw west, screw east, fire people and then hire a new crop for central. 


Edited by biggb45s, Sep 22 2019 - 00:57.


Markd73 #56 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 01:23

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View PostHeavyMetalSix, on Sep 21 2019 - 20:19, said:

It's experience and I up until recently was tracking some data in a spreadsheet.  I think it goes back to 2014 (some entry errors exist/what I tracked evolved over time).  So yeah I have data  I'd share the ~45k battle replays I had stored so you could be that unbiased reviewer(?) but I deleted these last month.  Likely none of that data would meet your standard.

Fair enough. Thanks for the response.



Tolos #57 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 02:16

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View PostHeavyMetalSix, on Sep 21 2019 - 20:19, said:

It's experience and I up until recently was tracking some data in a spreadsheet.  I think it goes back to 2014 (some entry errors exist/what I tracked evolved over time).  So yeah I have data  I'd share the ~45k battle replays I had stored so you could be that unbiased reviewer(?) but I deleted these last month.  Likely none of that data would meet your standard.

 

Convenient....



I_QQ_4_U #58 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 03:57

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View PostPipinghot, on Sep 19 2019 - 15:31, said:

 

 

But other than 6th Sense, all of the other skills only help a tiny bit each.

 

 

I'd say that camo, repairs and VR skills offer huge benefits and I'd bet that most new/bad players go for skills they think are going to increase their damage output before them.



AllieOop2 #59 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 15:02

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View Postbiggb45s, on Sep 22 2019 - 00:52, said:

Stupid question, stupid answer? wth you want an educated argument to the same stupid crap that comes up over and over. Just like most corporations in the world WG executives and shareholders only care about there performance bonuses (cash based off how much money they make). So they could fix a lot of our problems by throwing money at it and hiring people to code, respond to costumer complaints, moderate match’s by paying people gold to play the game and still have moderation powers, MM issues, graphics issues, server location, server upgrades, server upkeep, did I miss anything? No they take the bonus cut corners and run on minimum. They could of kept east, west and then a central server. Then let them grow? No screw west, screw east, fire people and then hire a new crop for central. 

Yes you did. When you invest your money in a business its a huge risk. That risk may involve your entire life's savings. The reward of success is called a profit. Profits become salary, bonus, hourly wage an benefits for all of that companies employees an owners. Profits also allow that company to stay in business. When you have a glitch, downturn in business ( profits) you make changes. Most public companies are accountable to the shareholders. Shareholders also have made an investment in a company. They also want to receive money back for that investment. Since I do not have financial records of the cost of doing business in NA for WG, neither you nor I can say if it was full-filling the requirements of WG an its shareholders or not. BUT based on a typical company reactions to its profits in a segment of its operations I am going to guess it was not.

Sorry if that gave you a higher ping, less win rate or less enjoyment from the West coast but WG anit your Daddy here to lose money for your personal enjoyment.

 


Edited by AllieOop2, Sep 22 2019 - 15:05.


Pipinghot #60 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 22:20

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Sep 21 2019 - 21:57, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Sep 19 2019 - 15:31, said:

But other than 6th Sense, all of the other skills only help a tiny bit each.

I'd say that camo, repairs and VR skills offer huge benefits and I'd bet that most new/bad players go for skills they think are going to increase their damage output before them.

All of those things are good, no argument there, but they are incremental improvements to things that already exist. 6th Sense is in a class by itself, it adds an ability to a crew that simply does not exist until it's researched. Improving camo helps a tiny bit, improving repairs helps a tiny bit, but adding 6th Sense to a Commander make a sudden large leap forward in terms of that crew's survivability.

 

If a player gets killed while using a crew with 100% camo that's not necessarily a learning opportunity, there's nothing about that event that is intrinsically gives the player new information. But every time 6th Sense goes off it has the potential to teach the player something new about the game. Camo, repairts, etc. can slightly improve survivability, but 6th Sense can teach the player how to be more skilled.







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