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Why does Wargaming allow seal clubbing?


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Arrowheadmen #41 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 20:50

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The new player experience sucks for several reasons. I don't see how anyone can really deny that. I don't have the answers on how to solve the issues. All I can say is you have to really love the game to stick with it.

Markd73 #42 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 20:53

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View PostSilence_I_Keeeel_You, on Sep 20 2019 - 16:47, said:

Forums are useless. 

 

Not really. Having a closed mind to objective criticism is less than useful.

 

You can blame the game or learn from others and get better. Entirely up to you.



Markd73 #43 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 20:55

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View PostAkrotiri, on Sep 20 2019 - 19:07, said:

 

Thanks for doing your little bit to make this place even more toxic. 

 

There are a lot of people like you around here.  Using your keyboards while remaining safely anonymous.

 

 

 


Ummm everyone is "anonymous" on this forum. Including yourself.



TankFullOfBourbon #44 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 21:01

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The real question is why crappy new players are allowed to play tier 8.

Izgoy0899 #45 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 21:07

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simple answer....hookers and blow don't buy themselves. There is actually a clan named "Tier 2 Seal Clubbers."

Seriously, if you take the game too seriously you'll give yourself a stroke.  I've got to the point all I care about is trying, key word being try, to make sure I do my hp in damage, or get a decent spotting and direct damage if playing a LT. 


Edited by Izgoy0899, Sep 20 2019 - 21:18.


Izgoy0899 #46 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 21:10

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View PostSporkBoy, on Sep 20 2019 - 16:13, said:

Play RU servers.

 

I did, since I work in Vietnam, that was actually fun. 



Izgoy0899 #47 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 21:13

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View Post_Tsavo_, on Sep 20 2019 - 16:17, said:

While I think a possible solution to seal clubbing would be 2 low tier player pools, NA at least doesn't have the population to pull it off.

 

Unfortunately, can't do anything about clubbing.  It won't impress anyone, it's blatantly obvious, and at the day, they aren't breaking any rules and having fun.  Which is kind of the point of playing games.

 

I only get annoyed when I start a line and the clubbers start calling the team noobs and telling them to uninstall for being so bad in chat.  I had to tell one guy it was T2 why are you expecting players to know what they are doing. 

 

I get extra amusement though when I see they never played anything past T2-3 but have 2000+ games in a Lol Tractor.  



Izgoy0899 #48 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 21:38

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View PostSilence_I_Keeeel_You, on Sep 20 2019 - 20:18, said:

I am not the greatest player here, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

And I'm crying foul on the people who would disagree that seal clubbing is in poor taste and unfair to new players who have stock crews.

 

Have you tried playing tier 2 anytime recently with a 50-75% crew?  No modules & barely enough credits for consumables.

I have a lot of credits on hand actually.  Last christmas I was gifted a lot of boxes all I got was credits and some gold that I have

not used and I thinkI got  that payout for having 3 or 5ys too.  But so many players who are fresh to the game do not have such luxury.

 

Once you get experience playing this will not really be an issue.  I can typically load into a T2 game, to start a new line, with a 50% crew and no equipment in a stock tank and do decent.  But I have the experience from play to understand how camo/view range works, use of my mini map, typical areas players go to or important areas, and trying to side scrape rather than come around a corner like the Kool-aid man when I know from the mini map there is a tank there or might be.  Again you tend to get this with experience from playing.   

 

I am not a complete noob to the ways of WoT .  I've watched endless hours of YouTube and QuickBaby and SirHavoc and Klaus.

But watching and playing are separate and apart things.    The view mechanics, shell mechanics, etc do not seem to work like some of the videos I've watched.

Far more variables involved and need a degree in physics and balistic to decipher the in-game workings.  That aside.

 

They are hand picking at times the best games, plus they are experienced players.  Things are going to be some trial and error to them.  Like me I can side scrape and I understand principles of higher tier play, but not the best at putting them into practice yet.  Videos are great for a guide on what to do, but actually trial and error in game teaches.  Situations are liquid. 

 

Avoiding being hit by gold slinging 20mm machine guns with a 25% dispersion is like walking into a freeway on a moonless night against cars that have

tape over the headlights.  *You're gonna be hit*.

 

I mained LTs and laughed at people who thought gold was need to shoot me.  Try to find amusement in things. 

 

When the tanks are aiming their shots and use a single shot 30-47mm gun the chance of being hit goes up because the gun is better. 

Add a good crew, vents and 3 sklills on the gunner.  And hitting for damage goes up more.

 

Bait shots, or don't peak out if you think they are aiming at you and try not to get yourself in a trapped spot like behind a rock.  I use the free view, vanilla client and not the super zoom, often to try and quickly see what the other player might be doing. 

 

So you cannot avoid being shot at tier 2.   It's a fact of life.

 

Some times you can once you start to get experience, understand view range vs camo, how to side scrap a corner or use obsticals to get hull down, etc. 

 

I don't mean shooting gold is even a bad thing.  The M2 light needs to use apcr on it's own kind and tanks like the R35 and H35 which have 40mm of armor all around and the M2 light's machine gun pens 41mm but bounces 7 of 10 shots it fires at it.

 

That is a situation where gold ammo is required.  My complaint is that people use only gold ammo without care that it's more expensive whether they

need to use it or not.  Combined with multi-skill crews that seal clubbers inherently have and they have an advantage that new players with few battles could

possess without the ability to buy lots and lots of gold and a premium tank to convert xp from.    Honestly if seal clubbers players w/ greater than say 1000 battles in a tank were only allowed to use an unskilled crew that would even solve the whole issue.  It would level the field and give new players at least equal footing.

 

Play with friends since it tends to help. 

 

Also looking at your stats to me you're better than me.  Your in a positive damaged caused vs received and tanks destroyed. 


Edited by Izgoy0899, Sep 20 2019 - 21:47.


LT_Moon #49 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 21:55

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View Postspud_tuber, on Sep 20 2019 - 11:41, said:

If you're going to panic at the first sign of adversity, then WoT isn't for you. 

 

If, however, you're willing to put in a bit of time, you can get out of the baby tiers fairly quickly, and then really start to learn the game and build your credit reserves and crew skills.  

 

Very few people are going to judge you too harshly for your first 2 or 3k games, and you shouldn't worry too much about your stats either at those battle counts, and rather worry more about learning and growing your resource base(credits, crew skills, free XP).  

 

As your battle count grows, you can use your stats as indicators of what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong.  Ignore those who say "you suck" with no other explanation, but pay attention when someone tells the why, and see if there's anything to learn from what they're saying. 

 

Amen to that. And when you finally hit 50% mark, you will be thrilled. If you turn the table, if new players can play at par with players with a lot of experience, do you think you will enjoy that as an experienced player? Be patient and keep learning the game.



Pipinghot #50 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 22:11

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View PostNecrophore, on Sep 20 2019 - 14:12, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Sep 20 2019 - 08:55, said:

No. Seal clubbing is when players with experience and skill play lower tier battles against new and inexperienced players, especially in Tiers I, II & III.

 

There could be some discussion about whether it's possible to be a seal clubber at Tier IV or V, there are good points on both sides of that question, but there cannot be seal clubbing at Tier VI and above, that's simply playing the game. If a person is playing Tier VI-X before they're ready that's not being seal clubbed, that's just a player being stupid.

I was reported for seal clubbing at tier IX. Some people will always be a seal.

"Reported" and "truth" are two different things. There is no such thing as seal clubbing at Tier IX, no matter how much some crybaby wants to say there is.



Veracks #51 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 22:17

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I'm confused. Why exactly is playing the smaller tanks claimed "sealclubbing"? Last I checked, WG keeps giving everyone low tier tanks as gifts, so why not have fun playing them?

LT_Moon #52 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 22:28

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View PostVeracks, on Sep 20 2019 - 16:17, said:

I'm confused. Why exactly is playing the smaller tanks claimed "sealclubbing"? Last I checked, WG keeps giving everyone low tier tanks as gifts, so why not have fun playing them?

 

You can find examples on the forum occasionally. You haven't played (or probably will never play) one tank over 10K battles. Will you? If someone plays t67 that much, I think that can be called sealclubbing. They can call it fun but for me it is close to obsession or abuse.


Edited by LT_Moon, Sep 20 2019 - 22:28.


_Kradok_ #53 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 22:30

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View PostVeracks, on Sep 20 2019 - 16:17, said:

I'm confused. Why exactly is playing the smaller tanks claimed "sealclubbing"? Last I checked, WG keeps giving everyone low tier tanks as gifts, so why not have fun playing them?

 

The other part of that is every single one of us can decide what/how we want to play (within the EULA); playing high tiers/tourneys/org battles/solo pubbing/seal clubbing.... 

 

That's one of the better parts of this game: the absolute diversity of options.


Edited by _Kradok_, Sep 20 2019 - 22:31.


Veracks #54 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 22:33

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View PostLT_Moon, on Sep 20 2019 - 16:28, said:

You can find examples on the forum occasionally. You haven't played (or probably will never play) one tank over 10K battles. Will you? If someone plays t67 that much, I think that can be called sealclubbing. They can call it fun but for me it is close to obsession or abuse.

 

I personally have no interest in playing any tank for 10k battles, but I guess some people like it enough to do it. The way I see it, it's not smurfing unless you're actually abusing the matchmaker like in ranked games (e.g. LoL and DOTA smurfing with a fresh account to stomp newbies because the system thinks you're new too). Playing low tiers in WoT just amounts to playing a specific tank.



Pipinghot #55 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 22:33

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View PostSilence_I_Keeeel_You, on Sep 20 2019 - 10:05, said:

I know I have only a few battles.  I've played off and on for a few years though.

...

Legitimate comments welcomed. Flames will be ignored.  I've read this forum enough to know then difrerence.

So let's circle back around to your original question - "Why does Wargaming allow seal clubbing?"

 

Because they are an Eastern bloc game company which means they are part of the "Eastern game design" philosophy. Game design in eastern Europe & China tends to be more dog-eat-dog than Western games. In that gaming culture there's a strong school of thought that basically says, "If you don't like being bullied, become the bully".

 

This is one of the reasons that WoT is much more popular China and in the countries that used to be part of the U.S.S.R., and then to a lesser degree in Europe, than it is in the U.S. Our Western gaming culture is much less accepting of the idea of getting a bigger tank so you can bully your bully. We are much more inclined to think of seal clubbing as abusive or even a form of cheating, whereas in Eastern game design it's just fine. They basically believe that if you don't like getting beaten up, get tougher.

 

So, you may not like it, and I may not like it, and probably most of NA may not like it, but seal clubbing is a much bigger part of their gaming culture, and the core audience for WoT is the Eastern gaming culture. If we want to enjoy the aspects of WoT that we like (and it is a really good game in many ways) we simply have to accept that seal clubbing is a part of the game.

 



Tao_Te_Tomato #56 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 02:20

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Seals won't stop being seals until someone clubs some sense into them?  :hiding:

RagnarokBazil #57 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 13:05

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View PostSilence_I_Keeeel_You, on Sep 20 2019 - 10:05, said:

I know I have only a few battles.  I've played off and on for a few years though.

My game was logging me into the SA server though I'm in Houston, Texas.

Playing on SA is good even vs only bots and the few players with 2-3k battles are managable.

I like the M2 light with the machine gun and it's fun and seems balanced enough kill and being killed.

I understand the M2 is considered overpowered, but it is quite balanced against tier 2 and 3 tanks using regular ammo.

 

Today there were too few players on SA so I switched to USC.

USC is horrible.  All I encounter are players with many thousand battles spamming only premium ammo.

M2 light player rushed-rammed me to death doing 200 damage (spall liner?) shooting apcr and all my shots do is ding off.

I looked at his account after battle.  He has >65000 battles total and >26000 battles IN the M2 light with top damage of over

1000 and 10 kills.  This is the epitome of "seal clubber" and SMURF. How is this type of player fair to new players and why

does wargaming allow, encourage, and reward it?

 

I encounter other such players at tier 3 using FCMPAK40 spamming only HEAT rounds which one shot players. 

And most such players have a couple thousand battles in that PAK40 so again seal clubbing, but that least me to question;

Why is premium ammo even availalble in such tanks?

 

Low tier should not be using premium ammo anyway so we can learn how to aim shots.   I don't use it unless the tank I'm

shooting requires it.  R35 and H35 come to mind as well as M2 lights.

 

This game can be so much fun, but the fun factor dies fast when facing seal clubbers like these players. 

And nearly every battle has one or more than one of them. 

 

If this is what the game will be like moving onto higher tiers just gold spam in tanks already OP what incentive do I have

to continue playing?  I am not planning to purchase any premium tanks or premium time and will not ever given the conditions

I'm experiencing.

 

I think players with more than 1000 battles in a single tank should see no experience, no credits etc from the tank to

make it wholly unprofitable.  Wargaming should charge more for ammo; especially premium on seal clubbing players.

 

Legitimate comments welcomed. Flames will be ignored.  I've read this forum enough to know then difrerence.

 

Because they are tired of the Gold spam being thrown at there face and want to unwhined ill admit im one of them. But i only have like 500 to 1000 battles in my lowtiers.. i dont got like the insane ammount... seen someone who has 20k battles in an FCM... and in a M2 light...


Edited by RagnarokBazil, Sep 21 2019 - 13:07.


ShadowDancer27 #58 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 13:30

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View PostFlarvin, on Sep 20 2019 - 10:04, said:

 

I would say tank performance has far less influence compared to player skill, in seal clubbing.

 

I have ground crews at low tiers, even 75% ones. My game knowledge still allowed me to outperform newer players. 

 

The things you mention become more important when skill is more level. 

 

If I played a golf pro a round of golf, it is not going to be his better golf clubs that will beat me. Heck the pro could play with crap clubs and still beat me. But the quality of the clubs that pro uses, would matter much more, when playing another pro. 


there are some low tier tanks that are just bad - slow, bulky, low armor, bad gun, bad.  If there was a tier 8 as bad relative to its tier people would rage but for the few games to play through at low tiers it's bearable.



ThePigSheFlies #59 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 15:21

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View PostSilence_I_Keeeel_You, on Sep 20 2019 - 10:05, said:

Why does Wargaming encourage folks to fail to tier 10?

 

I could flip that question just as easily



appendage #60 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 16:01

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the Laughing Philosopher (for laughing at human follies), the terms Abderitan laughter, which means scoffing, incessant laughter, and Abderite, which means a scoffer, are derived from Democritus.[28] To his fellow citizens he was also known as "The Mocker".

 

                         :B

             APPENDAGE

 






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