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comradekillshot #1 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 17:59

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Last night I was having a great game in my tier 9 Russian light and got shut down by arty mid turn at about 50 kmh with a direct hit. It made me mad enough to come post some ideas I have been having onto the general discussion form. I am going to make this short and to the point because I know this topic gets toxic fast. This is going to be a 2 part idea, starting with stuff that hurts arty and then stuff that should appease them to attempt some middle ground. Getting shut down at 50 kmh by an spg is ridiculous. Its one thing to pepper and slam heavy tanks or tds sitting in one place but some of the shots I take from arty moving at 35 kmh + is beyond aggravating. 

 

The Nerfs

  • Arty will use a mini map to fire shells. No more firing through over head mode. SPGs should not be able to regularly thread needles with their shells through windows.
  • Arty can no longer use over head view to view/shoot enemy tanks. The overhead view may be removed all together but may be used to see if shots are going to land. 
  • On the mini map where the gun is facing a green line will be shown that will turn red if the shell is going to hit something before reaching its target.
  • All enemy tank icons on the mini map will have a 2 or 3 second delay so that quick moving tanks become almost impossible to shoot. However tanks not moving or slowly moving can still get hit. This could even be a formula so very slow moving tanks are essentially real time while fast moving tanks are a more drastic delay.
  • The draw range will be drastically reduced, this is important when I discuss buffs.
  • Stuns will only occur on direct hits, or allow tanks to use med kits once stunned without the 90 second cool down. The stun is just a bit too drastic in my opinion.
  • Large decrease in non direct hit damage

 

The buffs

  • Drastically improved gun accuracy. Big shells should fly true. This is why I said decrease draw range, otherwise auto lock and spam could become a problem.
  • Moderately improved reload time
  • Drastic decrease in ammunition cost
  • Drastic increase in xp granted for assist damage, even if arty just splashes a tank and doesn't track or stun them.
  • Increase in splash range, peppering heavy/ stationary tanks.
  • Specialty equipment/perks for arty

 

Essentially I think arty should be what arty is for. Peppering and supporting the forward players who are fighting dug in tanks. Essentially more accuracy but shooting without over head, large splash radius, minor but consistent damage. Arty is more like this now when compared to previous versions of the game but the biggest problem I have is when SPGs slam a light tank at full speed. This is just ridiculous and happens far too often for it to be just luck.

 

 



HOTA_CHATON #2 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:15

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Get over yourself, people just want something to complain about.  Why not really make this thread useful and complain about clown cars instead as those could be removed much more easily than arty and much less crying about it.

comradekillshot #3 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:20

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Sep 20 2019 - 18:15, said:

Get over yourself, people just want something to complain about.  Why not really make this thread useful and complain about clown cars instead as those could be removed much more easily than arty and much less crying about it.

good and very reasonable sir. I made this post to try and make the game better for everyone. If you would like to address the ideas put forward here you are more than welcome too. I am also sure there are many posts about the so called "clown cars" elsewhere on the forums. Please direct your concern onto those threads. As far as your comment I see no place for a counter idea to be put forward because it seems more like an attack than an idea


Edited by comradekillshot, Sep 20 2019 - 18:21.


Groogrux_Lite #4 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:21

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Biggest part of being a scout is vision control, that means keeping yourself dark and ALSO knowing that if you are lit to drive super defensive using that speed to try and over come the RNG (luck) you speak of.  I think the heavy tanks with derpy non derp guns (anything over .44 dispersion unmodded) who hit you a mile away are more frustrating because if arty gets me in a scout, that's my fault every time!

 


Edited by Groogrux_Lite, Sep 20 2019 - 18:21.


the_dude_76 #5 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:25

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View Postcomradekillshot, on Sep 20 2019 - 10:59, said:

Last night I was having a great game in my tier 9 Russian light and got shut down by arty mid turn at about 50 kmh with a direct hit. It made me mad enough to come post some ideas I have been having onto the general discussion form.

 

Or... just assume you're being targeted by arty after you've been spotted and don't drive in a straight line.

 

Seems like a much simpler solution to your problem, it works pretty well for most of us...



comradekillshot #6 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:26

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View PostGroogrux_Lite, on Sep 20 2019 - 18:21, said:

Biggest part of being a scout is vision control, that means keeping yourself dark and ALSO knowing that if you are lit to drive super defensive using that speed to try and over come the RNG (luck) you speak of.  I think the heavy tanks with derpy non derp guns (anything over .44 dispersion unmodded) who hit you a mile away are more frustrating because if arty gets me in a scout, that's my fault every time!

 

 

I can see where getting lit as a scout tank is a dangerous place to put yourself. And the derpy guns are more than a bit OP in some cases, my kv-2 is proof of that. However, just in the case derp cannons shouldn't be able to make across the map sniper shots regularly I feel like the same should be said for arty. Also, I like to play my scout and engage other vehicles, some of the funniest games I have is running circles around tds and heavy tanks in a scout. It shouldn't be so easy for arty to just slam you at speed, much in the same way its not really fair for a shotgun derp to make 350 meter shots. But these are just some ideas I had for SPGs because they are such a hot point in the game. 



comradekillshot #7 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:28

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Sep 20 2019 - 18:25, said:

 

Or... just assume you're being targeted by arty after you've been spotted and don't drive in a straight line.

 

Seems like a much simpler solution to your problem, it works pretty well for most of us...

I am not so sure. Also, I was not driving in any way a straight line. I would have to say because of SPGs being such a hot topic in game and on the fourms its not so straight forward as "git gud." 



HTTR4Life #8 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:47

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If you were ziggng and zagging around and a arty caught you with a shot then it was pure luck, no arty is fast enough or accurate enough to hit you on the move. I want to see a replay!! 

 

And by the way if it happens all too often as you say I really think its your driving and not arty being that good. I have quite a few games playing arty with MOE and Ace Tanker badges, these great shots you speak of escape me. They do not happen as often and you say.

 

My personal opinion is that this is a rant because you were having a great game and arty ruined it for you. Sh!t happens, except it, move on and learn from it if you can.


Edited by HTTR4Life, Sep 20 2019 - 18:48.


Syberfly #9 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:52

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Simple, the Arty player is better @ guessing where you were going. and a lot of luck.

comradekillshot #10 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 18:57

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View PostHTTR4Life, on Sep 20 2019 - 18:47, said:

If you were ziggng and zagging around and a arty caught you with a shot then it was pure luck, no arty is fast enough or accurate enough to hit you on the move. I want to see a replay!! 

 

And by the way if it happens all too often as you say I really think its your driving and not arty being that good. I have quite a few games playing arty with MOE and Ace Tanker badges, these great shots you speak of escape me. They do not happen as often and you say.

 

My personal opinion is that this is a rant because you were having a great game and arty ruined it for you. Sh!t happens, except it, move on and learn from it if you can.

 

It's not a rant. That's why it's a next day post and not I'm pissed right now. I dont have a ton of arty expierence, I've only grinded to the Russian tier 10 spg and tier 5 to 6 in a couple other nations, but I can say I do make shots that, while are not direct hits, track and stun light tanks that are moving fast enough that I shouldn't be landing that shot. As far as the replay I only hold my last one and have since played other games.

 

I still also feel like if it was more balanced then we wouldn't see the kind of community arguments about it we see. The wheeled tanks are really strong, thus we see arguments about it. Spgs have been an arguing point since forever and I think the reason is because that overhead view is just an op way to play. 

 

Also I'm talking about more than direct hits here. Just arty getting close causes instant tracks, damage, and stun against a fast moving tank shouldn't be as easy as I feel like it is.



dunniteowl #11 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 20:36

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If you got hit on the move, I can assure you of two basic things:

 

1)  You were, indeedy do, spotted

 

        and

 

2)  You moved in a predictable way in some manner.

 

I do not blind shoot things I see moving quickly in arty -- ever.  Not enough reward for effort, like a 1 in 30 chance of even scoring a near miss like that.  Spotted, though.  If you zig zag in a predictable way or are heading to a clearly identifiable 'safe' spot, I can hit you about 1 in 5 and that's worth a shot.  If you move evasively, remember to let off for just a fraction, the W key from time to time, because timing your speed is part of landing on you at 50kph.

 

I manage to evade a lot of arty, both in non SPGs and SPGs, because I'm sort of stuck playing it a lot.  My hardest to play well units are LTs, so I can't really give you operational pointers from THAT perspective.  However, from an SPG perspective, you have to drive like a Fremen on Dune walks in the desert -- without a pattern to attract Shai H'ulud -- the Great SPG of the desert, attracted to anything making noise, still or moving.  (If you are not familiar with what I reference, look up, "Dune" by Frank Herbert).

 

Like the Fremen walk, shuffle, pause, step, shuffle, pause, pause, step, pause, shuffle, slide, pause, step, shuffle, pause, shuffle, step, pause.  You have to teach yourself not to zig, zag, zig, zag in a predictable pattern.  If you have a destination that, under your situation, is obvious, try to vary your speed and turning before you get there to avoid running into a layed in planned shot timed to meet you at that spot, go wide a touch or cut that other side instead, because the SPG player won't expect you to do that.

 

Finding places to disappear from being spotted and counting ten.  You should know this already, however sometimes we forget some of the basic survival functions and tend to get 'sloppy' or complacent in our techniques or attention to it at all sometimes.  Or we get overly focused on what we're doing and not assessing how much attention what that is might draw.  For example, you show up and break up a stalled advance, expect arty to pay attention to you -- you're a proven aggressive disruptor and that's an Alarm Bell or Red Flag to any remotely aware player, even of SPGs.  So expect to get focused, which makes it harder to evade to begin with and sometimes your risk level was higher than you thought and that's how it goes.

 

As to your ideas, what you suggest in no way benefits SPGs.  Increased accuracy for delayed time of information on the mini-map, now its only aiming guide?  Sounds legit.  You can buff accuracy by 40% with your reductions and arty accuracy as a fact would go down below it's already lower than all other classes of around 35% overall.

 

You literally shut the eyes and placed delays on information that so far outweigh any 'buffs' you propose as to be clearly designed in mind with no real advantage to the class to compensate for the nerfs you propose.  And I'm pretty sure, deep down, you know that.

 

 

Make better, more objective presentations and you might see me sitting on your side of the fence.  As it is? Sounds like a bit of sour grapes disguised as grape aide.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



the_dude_76 #12 Posted Sep 20 2019 - 21:41

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View Postcomradekillshot, on Sep 20 2019 - 11:28, said:

I am not so sure. Also, I was not driving in any way a straight line. I would have to say because of SPGs being such a hot topic in game and on the fourms its not so straight forward as "git gud." 

 

Hot topic?? The same people saying the same things doesn't making something a "hot topic". Most people are indifferent to arty so there is no reason to beat it into nothing while pretending to give something back. If arty is something you can't deal with then you're going to have to find a new game because WG isn't going to nerf it to the point that no one would play it. Which is exactly what you're asking for.



n4cer67 #13 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 01:29

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LOL, no. Same old arty whine post because people think they're the only ones allowed to play what they want and have fun. Arty doesn't have needle threading accuracy unless your shooting at a big [edited]needle. Your suggestion would screw arty which has already been nerfed enough. 

Chtholly_Seniorious #14 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 06:05

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View Postn4cer67, on Sep 21 2019 - 01:29, said:

LOL, no. Same old arty whine post because people think they're the only ones allowed to play what they want and have fun. Arty doesn't have needle threading accuracy unless your shooting at a big [edited]needle. Your suggestion would screw arty which has already been nerfed enough. 

Please of anything it was a buff noe you stun and have a splash that is massive.  If I ever see a good player in arty you can be sure theybarnt doing less than 3k dmg eith ease



01LT #15 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 22:01

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If an arty is killing you in mid drive or turn i would say your predictable like 80% of all players in the game. Kudoos to the arty that hit you. its not an easy task to hit a moving target. Takes TIMING, SKILL Experience in know what most players do your diving pattern and and a little luck.

the min map is a top down view just in case you didn't know. this is no FPS game. when I play arty. only thing pev's  me is that 90% of your shots are nothing but track shots aty shots are suposed to be coming at more of a shooting ark



Chtholly_Seniorious #16 Posted Sep 21 2019 - 23:54

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View Post01LT, on Sep 21 2019 - 22:01, said:

If an arty is killing you in mid drive or turn i would say your predictable like 80% of all players in the game. Kudoos to the arty that hit you. its not an easy task to hit a moving target. Takes TIMING, SKILL Experience in know what most players do your diving pattern and and a little luck.

the min map is a top down view just in case you didn't know. this is no FPS game. when I play arty. only thing pev's  me is that 90% of your shots are nothing but track shots aty shots are suposed to be coming at more of a shooting ark

When a arty can land withing the length of a maus and do 300 dmg no it doesn't take skill at all.



guynodens #17 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 01:08

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So just generally, it seems like your ideas are just bringing back old-school arty. As in the kind of "one-shot you with supreme death-star like power" arty. Everyone hated that arty too. 

 

I feel like you're letting rare experiences dictate your understanding of the game in general. As an arty player, have I one-shot tanks with a wild out-of-nowhere shot? Yes. As in once. As in complete utter blind luck exactly one time. Comparatively, I think every hour, on the hour, one of my tanks with no armor to speak of gets an absurdly lucky bounce off the roof of its turret or soemthign and avoids certain death in a way that makes no sense. I think I have gotten Cool Headed or Spartan in tanks like the M3Lee and the Pz I C out of sheer stupid luck, tanks that have no business bouncing shots. Luck happens, sometimes good, sometimes bad, and just because you got nuked from orbit like that, doesnt' mean that's common or needs to dictate a change in mechanics. I know this sounds harsh, but trust me on this. 



01LT #18 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 07:45

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Its not as easy as it looks and it does take skill no mater how fast or slow oh how big. Its not easy.

Never have I complained about or whined about the role of arty in a game on the basis that its being OP.  ARTY is not and has never been this games problem and neither has it been match making. Its always been the MAPS.


Edited by 01LT, Sep 22 2019 - 07:49.


Chtholly_Seniorious #19 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 07:50

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View Post01LT, on Sep 22 2019 - 07:45, said:

Its not as easy as it looks and it does take skill no mater how fast or slow oh how big. Its not easy

Is that why I was able to do every arty mission to get my 279e with 75% crews and only a rammer and camo net on a tier 9 arty.  Arty takes 0 skill I was actually playing path of exile while I was doing those missions I would just look back over every 35 sec aim fire go back to farming.



Altwar #20 Posted Sep 22 2019 - 08:39

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View Postminneerminneer, on Sep 21 2019 - 22:50, said:

Is that why I was able to do every arty mission to get my 279e with 75% crews and only a rammer and camo net on a tier 9 arty.  Arty takes 0 skill I was actually playing path of exile while I was doing those missions I would just look back over every 35 sec aim fire go back to farming.

Video replay of both you doing the mission and playing the path of patting your own back simultaneously...or it never happened.  :)







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