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New HE Round survery

HE Round Sand Box

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Poll: Do you like the HE Round re-work? (306 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battle in order to participate this poll.

Do you think the new mechanics for HE rounds are good?

  1. ( 100%) Yes, I think the new HE rounds are perfect (36 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  2. (50%) No, Its the right direction but not where it should be (36 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  3. (0%) No, These changes are awful and the idea needs to be shelved (234 votes [76.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.47%

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SpectreHD #121 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 12:18

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 18:49, said:

I too feel that armor in a tank game should be irrelevant. How dare that T-29 use his armor effectively. Doesn't he know that's not allowed? 

 

Better sit in front of him and spam that HE. Aiming is just way too hard. 

 

If only RNG doesn't give such a large variance in penetration and damage, and that maps weren't MOBA style corridors with large sections of untraversable terrain that prevent flanking and maneuver warfare and even in open maps, it is covered in 30 layers upon layers of 360 degree RADAR view range that trying to use a vehicle's mobility to advance will result in getting spotted.

 

And if you want to be fracking consistent in a tank using its armour effectively but now unable to, WHINGE more about the former literal PAY TO WIN and now broken mechanic that every lazy player whether tomato or unicum decides to spam the moment things get just a little hard i.e. premium ammo. If there is ONE ammo type that has single handedly screwed over balance, and actually caused TOXIC gameplay which resulted in their nerf in specific vehicles that use them, it is premium ammo.

 

If I can be told to "just not get hit" when I bring up the toxic and balance destroying nature of premium ammo, then you can take the same advice and not get hit by a shell type with slower shell velocity, and on tanks that use derps, have poorer accuracy, aiming time, gun handling and reload speed.



HeraldricKnight #122 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 13:19

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View PostSpectreHD, on Oct 24 2019 - 11:18, said:

 

If only RNG doesn't give such a large variance in penetration and damage, and that maps weren't MOBA style corridors with large sections of untraversable terrain that prevent flanking and maneuver warfare and even in open maps, it is covered in 30 layers upon layers of 360 degree RADAR view range that trying to use a vehicle's mobility to advance will result in getting spotted.

 

Because everything works in just one direction; against you. RNG, positioning, and even spotting. Unless you drive out [edited]-backwards and expect not to get destroyed, how is that an issue?

 

View PostSpectreHD, on Oct 24 2019 - 11:18, said:

And if you want to be fracking consistent in a tank using its armour effectively but now unable to, WHINGE more about the former literal PAY TO WIN and now broken mechanic that every lazy player whether tomato or unicum decides to spam the moment things get just a little hard i.e. premium ammo. If there is ONE ammo type that has single handedly screwed over balance, and actually caused TOXIC gameplay which resulted in their nerf in specific vehicles that use them, it is premium ammo.

 

So let's add something that's even worse; a round that requires no pen but does full damage regardless of where it lands. Two wrongs make a right. Nice memes. Top Kek. 

 

View PostSpectreHD, on Oct 24 2019 - 11:18, said:

If I can be told to "just not get hit" when I bring up the toxic and balance destroying nature of premium ammo, then you can take the same advice and not get hit by a shell type with slower shell velocity, and on tanks that use derps, have poorer accuracy, aiming time, gun handling and reload speed.

 

Unlike premium rounds, He doesn't have to pen. It doesn't require accuracy, aiming time, or gun handling. If you seriously moan and complain about APCR, I can only imagine if the latest HE iteration comes out and Type 5's start doing 500 damage minimum, anywhere on your tank. 

 



Mancu #123 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 14:13

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 08:19, said:

 

So let's add something that's even worse; a round that requires no pen but does full damage regardless of where it lands. Two wrongs make a right. Nice memes. Top Kek. 

 

It has been pointed out several times to you that this isn't true. HE on the test server DOES NOT do full damage every shot. In point of fact it isn't even guaranteed to do damage. Additionally, the damage it does do is calculated by the location of the hit on the target.

 

Please try sticking with the truth.



SpectreHD #124 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 14:18

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 20:19, said:

Because everything works in just one direction; against you. RNG, positioning, and even spotting. Unless you drive out [edited]-backwards and expect not to get destroyed, how is that an issue?

 

Because it makes making things harder to damage using standard ammo? There is a hull down vehicle. You can easily penetrate its cupola but RNG decides to low roll your penetration and bounce. And if you do hit and penetrate, RNG can low roll and you do less damage. Or the game decides the point where you are aiming at, taking the time to get the aiming reticule as low as possible, but the shell goes somewhere else.

 

Me stating corridor maps and the map being inundated with layers upon layers of view range is to state that players cannot try to flank choke points because they will get spotted. So tanks are funneled into choke points that the only way to damage enemies is to use HE and of course premium ammo. They both do the same thing and yet only one shell gets demonised.

 

View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 20:19, said:

So let's add something that's even worse; a round that requires no pen but does full damage regardless of where it lands. Two wrongs make a right. Nice memes. Top Kek. 

 

Full damage regardless of where it lands? Yeah right. For that to happen, actual aiming is required. I guess it explains why players that want to maximise damage or 3 Mark their tanks load full HE. Oh wait they don't.

 

View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 20:19, said:

Unlike premium rounds, He doesn't have to pen. It doesn't require accuracy, aiming time, or gun handling. If you seriously moan and complain about APCR, I can only imagine if the latest HE iteration comes out and Type 5's start doing 500 damage minimum, anywhere on your tank. 

 

Yeah, they don't have to pen, but they sure as hell need to land their shots first. Poor gun handling, accuracy, and aim time are major reasons why derp tanks have long exposure times that makes them susceptible to retaliation. Tanks using HE with their better gun will never do full damage unless it is on their thinner armour. At that point, the person using HE using the tactically best shell to do the most damage should be rewarded.

 

So I will repeat, learn to not get hit by a slow velocity shell since the super fast premium APCR is not an issue.

 

And as Mancu stated, stop making things up as if it is an actual argument. ZERO penetration current ensures that constant damage anywhere is unlikely.

 


Edited by SpectreHD, Oct 24 2019 - 14:22.


Mancu #125 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 14:19

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 08:19, said:

 

Unlike premium rounds, He doesn't have to pen. It doesn't require accuracy, aiming time, or gun handling. If you seriously moan and complain about APCR, I can only imagine if the latest HE iteration comes out and Type 5's start doing 500 damage minimum, anywhere on your tank. 

 

This statement is disingenous to say the least. To imply that the 2 key doesn't negate armor but HE does is just dumb. The whole problem that needed fixed was people hitting the 2 key and playing easy mode. Increased shell velocity, greatly increased penetration, and in some cases increased damage...



HeraldricKnight #126 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 14:19

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View PostMancu, on Oct 24 2019 - 13:13, said:

 

It has been pointed out several times to you that this isn't true. HE on the test server DOES NOT do full damage every shot. In point of fact it isn't even guaranteed to do damage. Additionally, the damage it does do is calculated by the location of the hit on the target.

 

Please try sticking with the truth.

 

It has been pointed out that HE has a guaranteed minimum. Add on top of the new iteration of testing; HE does 75% more damage and it's splash does more damage regardless of location.

 

Please try keeping up to date with the testing. 



SpectreHD #127 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 14:22

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 21:19, said:

 

It has been pointed out that HE has a guaranteed minimum. Add on top of the new iteration of testing; HE does 75% more damage and it's splash does more damage regardless of location.

 

Please try keeping up to date with the testing. 

 

That still doesn't guarantee the same damage regardless of armour thickness. Armour thickness and spaced armour is still a factor.



HeraldricKnight #128 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 14:27

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View PostSpectreHD, on Oct 24 2019 - 13:18, said:

And as Mancu stated, stop making things up as if it is an actual argument. ZERO penetration current ensures that constant damage anywhere is unlikely.

 

 

I'm clearly making things up. Clearly. This is 100% doctored footage. 



Mancu #129 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 14:53

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Interesting video. I like that guy's opinion that HE should be high risk/reward - like it is now. It should be used to nuke light armor, harass heavies, and reset caps. I think the original test changes - like he said in the video - killed HE. I don't think either of the test runs so far are better than the system we currently have.

 

 

 

 



comradekillshot #130 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 15:03

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Well now with the next iteration of HE my poll still stays the same. What a 180 that was. First HE got nerfed into the dirt, now why shoot anything else. Just leave it alone.

SpectreHD #131 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 15:19

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 21:27, said:

 

 

I'm clearly making things up. Clearly. This is 100% doctored footage. 

 

Oh good, an unnecessary change made things worse. I guess the disconnect between what I am arguing is you are basing your numbers on the current SB iteration. I am arguing what it is now. You are right, "Two wrongs make a right. Nice memes. Top Kek" only applies on the test server.

 

I didn't want this. I wanted to keep things as they were and I was arguing what we have now is nothing to what you are saying it does. Things now aren't like this. It is only this change in the SB that made HE actually no skill.

 

View PostMancu, on Oct 24 2019 - 21:53, said:

Interesting video. I like that guy's opinion that HE should be high risk/reward - like it is now. It should be used to nuke light armor, harass heavies, and reset caps. I think the original test changes - like he said in the video - killed HE. I don't think either of the test runs so far are better than the system we currently have.

 

Exactly. HE now already does what WG wants the "new" HE to do and what that YTer wants it to do. High risk for high reward.

 

This HE test change is as stupid as the SB premium ammo "rebalance".


Edited by SpectreHD, Oct 24 2019 - 15:20.


Apache_King #132 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 15:51

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Disclaimer: I have not played on the test server.

 

Disclaimer #2: I like my KV2 a lot.

 

I am ok with the HE nerf if it means more consistent HE damage. I can already 1 shot most tier 6 with KV2 AP rounds so the HE nerf wont impact that too much...besides actually aiming on occasion. If HE shots were to start dealing more consistent damage to tier 8 while in my KV2 then that would be a plus because even with the current HE the KV2 usually gets low damage HE hits on well armored tier 8 tanks...and sometimes only double digit damage.

 



HeraldricKnight #133 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 16:31

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View PostSpectreHD, on Oct 24 2019 - 14:19, said:

I didn't want this. I wanted to keep things as they were and I was arguing what we have now is nothing to what you are saying it does. Things now aren't like this. It is only this change in the SB that made HE actually no skill.

 

HE now is super aggravating for small caliber guns. On paper, HE now should be able to do more damage to modules enough to break and destroy them, however, in practice that is not the case. I desperately want a reliable way to track and damage equal tiered lights and mediums in my light tanks, and currently the new HE mechanics seemed geared for just that.

 

 

 

 

 



SpectreHD #134 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 17:14

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 23:31, said:

HE now is super aggravating for small caliber guns. On paper, HE now should be able to do more damage to modules enough to break and destroy them, however, in practice that is not the case. I desperately want a reliable way to track and damage equal tiered lights and mediums in my light tanks, and currently the new HE mechanics seemed geared for just that.

 

Then some small tweaks for or mechanic changes that cover HE on guns up to a certain caliber say max 105mm but not including derps is just needed. Not a game wide change.

 

I do agree, module damage on the smaller calibers are pitiful even with any shell they use. I feel on thinly armoured vehicles, guns below 105mm do enough damage for HE. Despite maybe doing little to know damage, low caliber HE can and do reset caps. But during the match, there isn't much utility and many opt to use premium ammo to just do damage.

 

For the larger caliber rounds that are not derps, I do feel having the damage being inconsistent now is better because of the issue you highlighted that it becomes a 0 skill round. To be consistent, aiming should be required the way it is now. Using legit tactics that have been present since Closed Beta i.e. shooting the ground below to do damage is one of the versatility that HE provides as a high risk high reward mechanic.

 

Sure, players can be lazy and spam it without aiming but their results won't be consistent or effective and that's how it is and how it should be.

 

I agree, increase their utility on the smaller calibers. But a game wide sweep that covers ALL guns is just unneeded. It is just like their method of "addressing" premium shells by not touching premium shells themselves.

 

We'll see what the next iteration would be. Right now they are literally 0 skill shells. They managed to make HE totally useless to completely stupid. I want some aiming required to do well with them which is what we currently have now. Current iteration doesn't do that but what we have now does. So increasing the utility of low calibers I agree with. Keep derps and larger calibers the way it is now so that aiming is required for some consistency and keeping the high risk high reward gameplay.



comradekillshot #135 Posted Oct 28 2019 - 17:42

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is there going to be a third HE iteration? anyone know?





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