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New HE Round survery

HE Round Sand Box

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Poll: Do you like the HE Round re-work? (306 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battle in order to participate this poll.

Do you think the new mechanics for HE rounds are good?

  1. ( 100%) Yes, I think the new HE rounds are perfect (36 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  2. (50%) No, Its the right direction but not where it should be (36 votes [11.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.76%

  3. (0%) No, These changes are awful and the idea needs to be shelved (234 votes [76.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.47%

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Vulcan_Spectre #21 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:07

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The joy of the kv-2 is one shoting tanks, like one time I pened a 800 hp t34 with HE to survive to die to a e25.you still can with AP but it's not nearly as consistent with dmg doing

comradekillshot #22 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:12

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View PostGenPanzer, on Oct 18 2019 - 14:57, said:

I voted yes because I remember the days when HE always did damage and I want that back. Too many times now, I'll shoot HE only to have it bounce and that is super annoying. HE is supposed to explode on contact and therefore should always do some damage.

 

I am not sure what your talking about here. The only time I bounce my HE rounds is if its at such an angle that it auto bounces. I guess some very small guns do 0 damage to thick armor with HE but I dont think thats a bad thing. If you have the armor it should do its job.



Laser_Beam #23 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:29

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View PostRena_Dyne, on Oct 18 2019 - 14:27, said:

 

Lowest roll you can get on the derp is just over 500Hp, highest you can get is just shy of 900, so its not quite the same as the AP Round as a penetrating AP round will almost always do more damage then a "low" damage hit with HE but not as much as a full damage hit from HE {Which can do upwards of 1,100 damage}. So you can do, in general with AP, more consecutively reliable damage {Though HE Is hilarious on thin armored tanks that will just be deleted since you just have to sneeze at them in general}. The problem with the AP on the KV-2 specifically {I don't have the jap heavies to know if its the same} is that the AP Rounds, damage wise, are fine, but are anemic in accuracy and pen.  The only "Super slow one" i've noticed is really the KV2 and the SU152 (And you should be using the hilariously high pen HEAT round most of the time on that, anyways), the M4 shermans, the PZIVH, and the Renault G1 are all fairly nimble tanks, the T49 is definitely a nimble tank, and the Hetzer is also fairly nimble {Despite being casemate}

 

Perhaps they may have to compensate "Some" of the derp tanks, but very few of them would need a direct buff to compensate for it, since all the mediums have viable AT gun alternatives that play just fine, the SU-152, KV-2, and Jap heavies will probably need further reworks and rebalancing. Though as I recall the super slow turret rotation on the KV-2 and its low armor is specifically to off-set the fact it gets a 1,100 damage potential gun at tier 6 which, I'm fairly sure, can delete every tier 6 tank in game, and several tier 7', and even a couple of tier *8s* like the Kanonen 105.

 

 

the attitude of the present day player.  Dab 2 to fix everything.

 

Personally I don't buy into WGs new meta of prem rounds to fix everything.   No pun intended.



Reichmonk #24 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:30

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View Postcomradekillshot, on Oct 18 2019 - 13:43, said:

 

 

I strongly disagree with this assessment. I run a lot of russian tanks so therefore I am fairly familiar with the 122 mm guns that come with them. Typically if I am up against an enemy heavy tank and start spamming HE, which I don't usually do if I can hit weak spots, the damage is only like 100-200 damage. A far cry from the typical 400-500 damage the AP rounds that land do. And if you have a very small gun this is typically on a more maneuverable tank. Why not flank at this point? 

 

And sometimes against VERY heavy armor my 122 will do no damage or very low damage, which I am completely cool with because that tank has the armor and should be able to stop the majority of HE damage.

 

Here the major difference that I see as good, but perhaps other people who are driving these OP russian heavies will see as bad.

 

Lets imagine an IS-7, or even worse, Obj. 279, which is hull down. Consider that flanking opportunities are very rare with the way maps are designed (so don't say just flank him). Now, you need to have high caliber guns, which will shoot HE at him, to do maybe up to 400-500 damage, but could also do 100, depending where they hit. You will normally only have 1-2 of those large guns that can do that, making him almost invincible.  With new HE rounds, EVERY tank can do 50+ damage, even tier 8 scouts and meds with low caliber guns, and they reload fast. So 4-8 tanks shooting him for 50 damage will render that hull down option obsolete. That's good in my book. it will make the game more interesting. Again, I understand that those OP russian heavies drivers will cry in the corner, but it's about time.

 

That is just my opinion, and i fully expect many people to disagree. I just hope, that just as many will also agree.

 

I'm not sticking to this opinion no matter what and will see what actually happens once it hits the public test server,



comradekillshot #25 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:36

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View PostReichmonk, on Oct 18 2019 - 15:30, said:

 

Here the major difference that I see as good, but perhaps other people who are driving these OP russian heavies will see as bad.

 

Lets imagine an IS-7, or even worse, Obj. 279, which is hull down. Consider that flanking opportunities are very rare with the way maps are designed (so don't say just flank him). Now, you need to have high caliber guns, which will shoot HE at him, to do maybe up to 400-500 damage, but could also do 100, depending where they hit. You will normally only have 1-2 of those large guns that can do that, making him almost invincible.  With new HE rounds, EVERY tank can do 50+ damage, even tier 8 scouts and meds with low caliber guns, and they reload fast. So 4-8 tanks shooting him for 50 damage will render that hull down option obsolete. That's good in my book. it will make the game more interesting. Again, I understand that those OP russian heavies drivers will cry in the corner, but it's about time.

 

That is just my opinion, and i fully expect many people to disagree. I just hope, that just as many will also agree.

 

I'm not sticking to this opinion no matter what and will see what actually happens once it hits the public test server,

 

To me thats not fair for any heavy tank. If you have an E-100, a scout shouldnt be able to just auto lock you and just yolo shells at you and deal damage. I agree that flanking is hardly ever an option once you get into a corner position and start swapping shots, but thats why the current HE rounds are good. It allows, say a 2 vs 2 heavy tank brawl to move. If you need to shoot some HE rounds and hit the other guy for a couple 100 damage eventually something has to happen. But in the test server damage output is so low its taking waaaaaaay too many shots to make a difference. I mean 100 to 130 mm HE shell doing such little damage is going to make those battles stagnate. These patch seems to be removing diversity of play and not increasing it.

 

Also on the Russian Heavies, I got a lot of them, and I have  various others, but the ones on the tech tree are not as op as people say they are. 


Edited by comradekillshot, Oct 18 2019 - 15:38.


CynicalDutchie #26 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:37

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A nerf to derp guns is long overdue.

comradekillshot #27 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:39

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View PostCynicalDutchie, on Oct 18 2019 - 15:37, said:

A nerf to derp guns is long overdue.

Nerfing specific derp guns and killing an entire ammunition type is drastically different. 



CynicalDutchie #28 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:43

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View Postcomradekillshot, on Oct 18 2019 - 15:39, said:

Nerfing specific derp guns and killing an entire ammunition type is drastically different. 

 

 

Except it's a buff to HE shells in general and a nerf to derp guns



comradekillshot #29 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:45

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View PostCynicalDutchie, on Oct 18 2019 - 15:43, said:

 

 

Except it's a buff to HE shells in general and a nerf to derp guns

 

cutting damage by 75% to 50% is hardly a buff. Also, Sorry but a 25mm HE round shouldn't be able to consistently damage a maus.

 

I understand that more regular damage at a lower rate is helpful for new players or people who dont play to specialized tanks but its far less dynamic than the current meta.


Edited by comradekillshot, Oct 18 2019 - 15:46.


the_dude_76 #30 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:48

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View PostRena_Dyne, on Oct 18 2019 - 07:14, said:

 

Honestly, I run the KV-2, use the Premium AP Round, and it still deals hilariously huge damage and usually a bit more reliably then the HE does.

 

This might explain your 46% WR in one of the most forgiving tanks in the game. The pen on the AP round is only 110, the HE round does damage with EVERY hit. There is no way the AP round is more reliable damage dealer than the HE round.

 

Block Quote

 AP round will almost always do more damage then a "low" damage hit with HE but not as much as a full damage hit from HE {Which can do upwards of 1,100 damage}. So you can do, in general with AP, more consecutively reliable damage {

 

Ummmm??? First that AP round has to PEN before it does anything. And in a tier 8 battle with 110 pen that's not happening all that often...



the_dude_76 #31 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 15:49

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View PostCynicalDutchie, on Oct 18 2019 - 08:43, said:

 

 

Except it's a buff to HE shells in general and a nerf to derp guns

 

It's a buff to LOW CALIBER HE rounds improving them from utterly worthless to mostly worthless...



InfinityGamer #32 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:07

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Where's the "I'm not sure, I'll need to try it out before I can make an informed opinion" option?

comradekillshot #33 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:22

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Oct 18 2019 - 15:48, said:

 

This might explain your 46% WR in one of the most forgiving tanks in the game. The pen on the AP round is only 110, the HE round does damage with EVERY hit. There is no way the AP round is more reliable damage dealer than the HE round.

 

 

Ummmm??? First that AP round has to PEN before it does anything. And in a tier 8 battle with 110 pen that's not happening all that often...

 

Dont bring people win rates into this man. Were all different people who have more or less time that we are willing to put into a virtual game. And I do agree with you that the whole portion of having to Pen can make the AP round a lot less consistent in some cases. BUT when you know that AP round is going to pen or at the very least have a strong hunch that it will it is more consistent damage than HE rounds. But the fact that we are having this back and forth proves its a dynamic variable for the game that shouldn't be removed.

 

On the case of its a buff to lower size HE rounds, this is true.But ITS A HUGE NERF to large caliber HE rounds.

 

I keep seeing people talk about OP heavy tanks like a hull down IS-7 or something but why would you support nerfing HE rounds when your going to run into that tank in your heavy tank. Lets say your heavy has a 100mm gun and its HE rounds will do about 150 damage to an enemy heavy tank. Why would you want to reduce that to less than half? It makes no sense. It makes no sense that a 25mm HE gun can damage a Maus and it makes no sense to reduce the HE damage from tanks that are dealing with heavily armored hull down heavy tanks. If your problem is low/mid tier HE shells then do something about the tanks shooting them, not the entire ammo class.


Edited by comradekillshot, Oct 18 2019 - 16:23.


comradekillshot #34 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:22

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View PostInfinityGamer, on Oct 18 2019 - 16:07, said:

Where's the "I'm not sure, I'll need to try it out before I can make an informed opinion" option?

Come back when you have looked around :honoring:



tanopasman62 #35 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:27

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We are forgetting the opposite end of the spectrum which is low-mid caliber HE against thin targets, with this your HE is going to be useless against them as you'd be doing less damage than shooting AP at them, which completely negates the whole point of using HE on the first place: having increased DPM against things such as the Skorpion.

 

If this goes live light/medium drivers will lose that edge, given said Skorpion enough time to load a second shell and kill the light/med, provided circling it isn't on the table. And I am not willing to give that up just to be able to hit cancertains in the turret for 80 damage on my tier 8 light/medium tanks.



MountainLion1 #36 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:37

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The announcement of testing HE changes reminds me of when they announced that the preferential MM tanks were the problem with match making and would be completely changed and lose there pref status. I have a feeling that the same group of developers were in charge of both of theses brilliant ideas. The HE rounds as they are right now is one of the fun aspects of the game and changing them would have a drastic and negative impact on the game, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Please file these proposed changes on the same shelf as the pref changes and move on to fixing some of the main issues with this game. Just one mans opinion, but I have played this game for years and hopefully I will be able to continue to enjoy it for many years to come. See y'all on the battlefield.

Edited by MountainLion1, Oct 18 2019 - 16:38.


comradekillshot #37 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:37

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View Posttanopasman62, on Oct 18 2019 - 16:27, said:

We are forgetting the opposite end of the spectrum which is low-mid caliber HE against thin targets, with this your HE is going to be useless against them as you'd be doing less damage than shooting AP at them, which completely negates the whole point of using HE on the first place: having increased DPM against things such as the Skorpion.

 

If this goes live light/medium drivers will lose that edge, given said Skorpion enough time to load a second shell and kill the light/med, provided circling it isn't on the table. And I am not willing to give that up just to be able to hit cancertains in the turret for 80 damage on my tier 8 light/medium tanks.

 

YES! YES! YES! YES! UGGGGH that post made me wet.



FrreeeBird #38 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:44

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This poll is nice, but WG does NOT care what the player base thinks.

 

The nerf to HE will force derp tanks to use gold rounds (HEAT) which will pressure players to run premium, it's all about the $$$$, WG doesn't care about your game play experience.



Garandster #39 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:44

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I think people are freaking out too much. I don't imagine high tier game play will be changed much since the majority of HE hits are non-pen so they start out as being half the listed alpha to begin with. The biggest concern over the changes seems to be centered around lower/mid tier tanks where the average armor is low enough you can fairly often get pens with HE leading to a lot of one-shot or near one-shot deaths. Hopefully with the corresponding HP buff at lower tiers it will make the gameplay better at those levels for those playing them.

 

We'll have to see how the data at the end of sandbox shakes up and what modifications to the initial testing are made.



tanopasman62 #40 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:49

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View PostFrreeeBird, on Oct 18 2019 - 16:44, said:

This poll is nice, but WG does NOT care what the player base thinks.

 

The nerf to HE will force derp tanks to use gold rounds (HEAT) which will pressure players to run premium, it's all about the $$$$, WG doesn't care about your game play experience.

 

From what I researched the RU playerbase, usually those with [This] next to their names was complaining about HE, and here you have it.

 

If we make enough posts like this across all forums we may save HE, not just derp/high caliber guns, but the ammo type altogether.







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