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Endless Tweaks


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Cowcat137 #21 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 20:09

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550 tanks to pick from, only about 50 relevant ones .

Darkbee2Bee #22 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 20:16

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View PostYANKEE137, on Oct 18 2019 - 14:09, said:

550 tanks to pick from, only about 50 relevant ones .

 

I chuckled.  Well played.

 

OP it's the nature of the beast in an environment with constant new vehicles.  I think they create this tail-chasing game at least partially intentionally so the player base shifts in the tanks they want to acquire/play.  Even slight shifts in the game meta help prolong the "freshness" of the game for lots of players (albeit artificially).



FrontenacDuVandoo #23 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 20:52

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View PostArf_84, on Oct 18 2019 - 11:48, said:

  I just think that WG is applying its resources in sub-optimal ways.

The thing is we don't know what their short, mid, and long term goals are.

Staying afloat financially is an obvious one, but we don't have all the numbers that they have and which ones they rally care about.

We can't forget that it's run by Belorussians with its biggest market in Russia. What we see as important in NA might seem unimportant in their eyes, so they allocate resources accordingly. Company culture plays a big part in all of this.

 

 

Otherwise I disagree with your assessment that you can shift most teams to map creation. Managers can manage whatever, sure. But designers can't be shifted around so much. Map design is a field in its own right, you can't take the designer working on new tanks and expect him to come up with good maps without a lot of trial and errors. Programmers are somewhat flexible but even then, I doubt the 3D modelers working on the tanks would be really useful when it comes to map making.

 

If they expand on their map design budget they also need to expand on their map testing budget to test and balance them correctly. I doubt they have much bandwidth when it comes to their supertest crew considering all the new tanks they have to test, nor that it can be expanded easily. Or maybe it can but it's just not part of their long term goal.

 

Creating new tanks seems more important to them than creating new map. The fact that you can sell some of the new tank while you can't sell the maps probably has something to do with it.



Diacom #24 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 02:37

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Oct 18 2019 - 09:10, said:

 

World of Tanks is an ever changing game with many mechanics and new features introduced throughout it's lifetime. Over 550 tanks to pick from, so the challenge is to make them feel a little different and balance them against each other. Some changes are to reflect a historical aspect. Such as the STB1 being given the hydraulic suspension, or Kanonenennenenenen getting a non historical gun to be competitive at tier 8. The changes are implemented to improve gameplay, and you may not have noticed, but many players on the forums make many requests to nerf this or buff that. Some are Valid, which are included in feedback reports we send to HQ. 


What good are 550 tanks to chose from when we only get 2 tank lines a month on track for sales?

What good are 550 tanks to chose from when even if we buy the tank on sale there are no sales for crew training/retraining for credits anymore to train a crew for the new tank?

 

These are 2 examples of changes that IMO suck.  There are other posts with more, but these seem to be relevant to the conversation so that's all I'll put here.

 

Oh, one more while I'm at it.

What good are 550 tanks to chose from when many have been power crept, not just by new tanks lines, but also the Premium tanks that WG said would never be better than an equivalent Elited similar tank.  What a joke that line was!



Copacetic #25 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 02:39

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more maps would interest more players than tweak [edited]

IndygoEEI #26 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 08:45

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Either OP is a really Old school game designer and checked out of game design before

Halo 2 (Pretty much the first game I know of when it came to "tweaking" or constant

changes for balance) or he is lying about being in game development.

 

Granted I believe in a smaller game that's online (Halo 2) or one that is large in content

scope that isn't online shouldn't make constant changes to gameplay provided they work

as intended.  However that isn't this game.



I_QQ_4_U #27 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 09:23

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View PostIndygoEEI, on Oct 19 2019 - 08:45, said:

Either OP is a really Old school game designer and checked out of game design before

Halo 2 (Pretty much the first game I know of when it came to "tweaking" or constant

changes for balance) or he is lying about being in game development.

 

 

 

Even the more popular MUDs had lots of tweaks. Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of video games, even single player games, knows that games get changed quite often. Maybe he worked on Pong, don't remember any updates for that.



Arf_84 #28 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 15:28

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shouldn't make constant changes to gameplay provided they work as intended.  However that isn't this game.

 

Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of video games, even single player games, knows that games get changed quite often

 

Fourth and absolutely final attempt:  I have never suggested that WOT stop changing.

 

or he is lying about being in game development.

 

Ok, done here.  Jeez.

 

 



Maniac57c #29 Posted Oct 20 2019 - 01:20

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WoT is terrible at adding maps. Wish they did more maps and less everything else.

If wishes were fishes we'd all eat well.



I_QQ_4_U #30 Posted Oct 20 2019 - 01:40

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View PostManiac57c, on Oct 20 2019 - 01:20, said:

WoT is terrible at adding maps. Wish they did more maps and less everything else.

If wishes were fishes we'd all eat well.

 

Adding new maps would just give more things for the whiners to whine about. Has any new map not been followed by a flood of whining? People whine about the maps we had, they get changed then they whine about the changes. WG can't win, maybe they just don't see the need to jump into more manure on a regular basis.

 

Same thing goes for new tanks, if they are strong then the whiners whine about them being OP, if they are balanced then they whine that they are crap, if they are crap then the end is nigh.

 

Add in content that doesn't effect anything and no one has to use and it's a rectal purge party.

 

Everything is a lose lose situation for WG as far as this forum goes.



WeSayNotToday #31 Posted Oct 20 2019 - 09:32

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View PostArf_84, on Oct 18 2019 - 17:48, said:

I guess I haven't been clear.  So, for the third time:  I am not suggesting that nothing should change.  I understand that ongoing change is inevitable and useful.  I just think that WG is applying its resources in sub-optimal ways.  There are other tasks that would benefit both WG and the player base more.  I am a bit surprised to learn that I am apparently in a decided minority on this issue.  So be it.  Carry on.

 

IMO, you are not in the minority, you are, however, in the minority in this thread, with this title.

 

View PostDiacom, on Oct 19 2019 - 02:37, said:


What good are 550 tanks to chose from when we only get 2 tank lines a month on track for sales?

What good are 550 tanks to chose from when even if we buy the tank on sale there are no sales for crew training/retraining for credits anymore to train a crew for the new tank?

 

These are 2 examples of changes that IMO suck.  There are other posts with more, but these seem to be relevant to the conversation so that's all I'll put here.

 

Oh, one more while I'm at it.

What good are 550 tanks to chose from when many have been power crept, not just by new tanks lines, but also the Premium tanks that WG said would never be better than an equivalent Elited similar tank.  What a joke that line was!

 

Also, when some have been bad forever and remain bad, and some are fine, but get nerfed while you are grinding them?



crasta #32 Posted Oct 20 2019 - 11:11

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View PostFrontenacDuVandoo, on Oct 18 2019 - 14:52, said:

Otherwise I disagree with your assessment that you can shift most teams to map creation. Managers can manage whatever, sure. But designers can't be shifted around so much. Map design is a field in its own right, you can't take the designer working on new tanks and expect him to come up with good maps without a lot of trial and errors. Programmers are somewhat flexible but even then, I doubt the 3D modelers working on the tanks would be really useful when it comes to map making.

 

If they expand on their map design budget they also need to expand on their map testing budget to test and balance them correctly. I doubt they have much bandwidth when it comes to their supertest crew considering all the new tanks they have to test, nor that it can be expanded easily. Or maybe it can but it's just not part of their long term goal.

 

Creating new tanks seems more important to them than creating new map. The fact that you can sell some of the new tank while you can't sell the maps probably has something to do with it.

 

 

I have been thinking along these lines for some time. 

 

Asking myself "why the goodness are WG spending time and effort on one set of relatively useless changes when they could be making new maps for example.

 

New Maps are sorely needed and would be widely appreciated.

 

I realised some time ago that they must not  have the resources available to for making maps. Hence we get entire videos about implementing ray tracing as if its going to transform the game play. In all actuality ray tracing  will do to do close to nothing for game play.

 

They really should hire some map design and maybe put some effort into investigating if blowouts can be reduced.  You know stuff thats going to make a difference.



FrozenKemp #33 Posted Oct 20 2019 - 13:25

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View PostArf_84, on Oct 18 2019 - 11:25, said:

The work is divided to teams, there is a map team, balance team, modeling team, etc. if they stopped doing other things to just make maps everyone else gets fired.

 

Well, to oversimplify a fraction, the teams consist of managers, designers and coders.  Any manager who can't roll around onto different teams on the same overall project should be fired.  Any designer who can't perform at designing at least a couple of different areas of the game should be fired.  As for coders, they simply code what the designers design and can work in any area.  And I am specifically not saying don't do other things, just shift the focus away from attempting to tilt endlessly and futilely at the windmill of perfect balance.  Stop the labor-intensive tweaking of removing bush X312 from Malinovka and making the ridgeline eight inches higher.  The maps will never be perfectly balanced.  Other improvements will add more to the game.

 

You seem to think that programmers create maps and that specialization does not and should not exist.  You are wrong.


Map designers create maps. It's a branch of computer art, not programming. If you took me (computer programmer with 15 years in game dev) and asked me to make a game map you would get a very very bad map. 


Edited by FrozenKemp, Oct 20 2019 - 13:27.


KRZYBooP #34 Posted Oct 21 2019 - 16:47

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View PostDiacom, on Oct 18 2019 - 19:37, said:


What good are 550 tanks to chose from when we only get 2 tank lines a month on track for sales?

What good are 550 tanks to chose from when even if we buy the tank on sale there are no sales for crew training/retraining for credits anymore to train a crew for the new tank?

 

These are 2 examples of changes that IMO suck.  There are other posts with more, but these seem to be relevant to the conversation so that's all I'll put here.

 

Oh, one more while I'm at it.

What good are 550 tanks to chose from when many have been power crept, not just by new tanks lines, but also the Premium tanks that WG said would never be better than an equivalent Elited similar tank.  What a joke that line was!

 

This is not at all in the context of what I was saying about 550 tanks. The point of my statement is that Balancing that many tanks is a difficult task. 

 

Two on Tracks a month for an entire year is 24 tank lines which each include 9 ish or more tanks with a discount on credits. That's 216 Tanks a year on discount. There was also a recent crew retraining discount that happened earlier this month for players that wanted to move tank crews around. 

 

In addition to the 550 tanks that are being rebalanced because of the changes in Tank Balance. League of Legends did the same thing with their Champions, but don't have 550 of them to go through. 



Tod_kommt #35 Posted Oct 22 2019 - 00:37

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What about bullet proof turds with wheels?  Wait, we already have them.

Regards

Tod_Kommt

 



Diacom #36 Posted Oct 29 2019 - 21:36

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View PostKRZYBooP, on Oct 21 2019 - 08:47, said:

 

This is not at all in the context of what I was saying about 550 tanks. The point of my statement is that Balancing that many tanks is a difficult task. 

 

Two on Tracks a month for an entire year is 24 tank lines which each include 9 ish or more tanks with a discount on credits. That's 216 Tanks a year on discount. There was also a recent crew retraining discount that happened earlier this month for players that wanted to move tank crews around. 

 

In addition to the 550 tanks that are being rebalanced because of the changes in Tank Balance. League of Legends did the same thing with their Champions, but don't have 550 of them to go through. 

 

You understand Krzy, we used to have a different tank line on sale just about every week.  This was great as a person could focus on something different each week if they chose or waited until the tank line they wanted to go on sale and make a purchase then as it was somewhat frequent.  Now it's a joke on how long it takes for a line to be "on track"

 

As far as your recent crew retraining discount that happened earlier, it was for GOLD ffs, I've been hounding about this over and over, where is the sale for CREDITS we haven't had in 3 years now?






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