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Is HE shell rebalance needed? Poll


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Poll: HE changes (73 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battle in order to participate this poll.

Do you want to see it happen as it is?

  1. Yes (9 votes [12.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.33%

  2. No (54 votes [73.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 73.97%

  3. Yes, but not in the state that is on the sandbox (10 votes [13.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.70%

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sunes #1 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 16:46

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So as the title says what is your opinion? Will this ruin the game fun for derp guns? I know a lot of people like to drink and just play with KV-2's or Shermans and enjoy themselves. Should there be a rebalance and if so how would you imagine it? Is having 0 pen a good idea and just deal consistent splash? Leaving it out here.

Cowcat137 #2 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:02

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Without the 105mm option the basic Sherman should become a tier 4 tank.  That 75mm  just can't cope with T-29's, IS-2's, T-150's, AT's and OI bunkers.

dunniteowl #3 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:09

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From what I read in the article, the difference in the rework is that they will be removing penetration values for HE (non SPG only at this time) and reworking the damage calculations, which, compared to before, should simplify the process and create a less chaotic damage spread between successive shots of the HE rounds.

 

I get all that.  The adjustments they make?  I'm going to have to wait and see how it turns out.  I'm open to the changes and hope that it does smooth or even things out with an estimate of how much overall damage one can 'reliably' do.  I think that's the big sticking point with current HE mechanics.  The damage values are so wild that you simply cannot really count on those guns reliably shot after shot.  The other issue was the huge variance between damage across tiers, relative to the tier and the expected overall values.  I'd like to see that dealt with as well.

 

Each tier really should scale with damage, guns, armor, HP, etc and the HE mechanics as they stand now create a lot of chaos when it comes to expected damage values.  I'm personally okay with it, however, I have no issue with WG wanting to see if they can make it more dependable as regards how much overall damage to expect from that shell.

 

 

OvO



Tuzban #4 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:11

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lol results atm.

 

Yes: 1, No: 12, Yes but: 0.



gmotoman #5 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:16

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So after reading the information on the WG website, and reading cooments here I took out my O-HO but only with AP rounds.  I played 3 games. 

Two battles were all tier 8, and I was able to do some damage, but with load time of 19 seconds I was not dealing much.
The final game saw it against tier 9/10 and I wasn't doing any damage against those.  Part of the issue is the O-ho is way to slow to get flanking or side shot opportunities.

 

Anyway if they don't change some other dynamics of the tanks that use derp/HE primarily they're making a lot of tanks useless in the current game scheme.

I guess the positive is I have about 5,000,000 worth of tech tree derpers to sell back should they become obsolete and I can use the coin for consumables



Markd73 #6 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:17

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View Postdunniteowl, on Oct 18 2019 - 16:09, said:

From what I read in the article, the difference in the rework is that they will be removing penetration values for HE (non SPG only at this time) and reworking the damage calculations, which, compared to before, should simplify the process and create a less chaotic damage spread between successive shots of the HE rounds.

 

I get all that.  The adjustments they make?  I'm going to have to wait and see how it turns out.  I'm open to the changes and hope that it does smooth or even things out with an estimate of how much overall damage one can 'reliably' do.  I think that's the big sticking point with current HE mechanics.  The damage values are so wild that you simply cannot really count on those guns reliably shot after shot.  The other issue was the huge variance between damage across tiers, relative to the tier and the expected overall values.  I'd like to see that dealt with as well.

 

Each tier really should scale with damage, guns, armor, HP, etc and the HE mechanics as they stand now create a lot of chaos when it comes to expected damage values.  I'm personally okay with it, however, I have no issue with WG wanting to see if they can make it more dependable as regards how much overall damage to expect from that shell.

 

 

OvO

 

I can see both sides of the change to HE mechanics.

 

From a purely mechanistic perspective, then I could see making HE more predictable would make a whole lot of sense.

 

From a pure goofy fun perspective, then I can see why one would be opposed to the proposed changes to HE mechanics. I get the most laughs while driving around in my derp sherman or KV2 and blapping lightly armored tanks for a hugely variable amount of damage. I am OK with the lottery mechanic aspect of this type of gameplay.

 

For now I am going to go with the goofy fun perspective, and argue in aggregate that they should just leave the HE mechanics as they currently exist.

I suppose there is a middle ground perspective, but I have yet to get to that yet.

 

Note - the cynic in me sees this as just another method for WG to force free to play players to either fire more premium ammo or to buy premium time/tanks. One of the few ways for free to play players to make money is to run around in tier 5 and 6 and fire cheap HE rounds from derp guns. For now I'm giving WG the benefit of the doubt, but considering their track record of short term profit over gameplay this will likely not last.


Edited by Markd73, Oct 18 2019 - 17:19.


sunes #7 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:20

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HE in the current state worked just fine. All the stupid reasons they posted for making the changes such as resetting the cap? I can do that wit hap to tracks. Finishing low HP? I can do that with HE as of now. Tracking? I can do that now too? With AP i can even deal damage when hit properly. This renders the derp tanks useless. HE is fine as it is. No one, i repeat no one asked for this. Fix prem ammo instead of nerfing HE to point where noone would bother to carry more than one. The other question is how do you deal with softly armored tanks now? If I see an FV or Grille etc... I will shoot AP cause AP will simply do more dmg and risk taking another shot from them cause of the lack of extra 20% ish dpm.

tanopasman62 #8 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:20

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Overall the nerf is bad for the game, don't let them convince you of the contrary.

 

Against heavy armor, it means that literally any tank can hurt them, which means that if a group of 5-6 players decide to focus a sidescrapping 705A/Maus or Hulldown IS-7/Cancertain they're going to either kill it or cause too much damage to it to make it worth to stay in position, which might turn out to be even worse than running into one or two tanks with high caliber guns hitting it for 400-600 every 15-25 seconds.

 

Derp guns will be completely turned useless, AP/Premium doesn't have enough penetration (Other than in the Borsig and the SU-152) to be useful on anything but -2 top tier games, ruining one of the main fun factors at tiers 4-7 (And the T49).

 

Against weak armor it means a buff, sure, they'll take more damage than a Maus, for example, but it's completely useless to shoot HE at them anyway when a 128mm HE is going do do 270 damage while an AP shell will be doing 670, it means low/medium caliber guns will have a bad time fighting paper tanks with high alpha because they won't be able to use HE for a DPM boost against these anymore.

 

In other words low/mid caliber HE is keeping it's usabilty more or less intact, as it exchanges the extra damage against weak armor for the ability to do any damage at all against heavy armor, which is not worth it, and high caliber HE is getting a HUGE nerf, and in the long term it might be even worse for tanks with heavy armor than it is now.



xXxDeadZombiexXx #9 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:21

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it takes even less skill now to do damage.

HeraldricKnight #10 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:46

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View Posttanopasman62, on Oct 18 2019 - 16:20, said:

Overall the nerf is bad for the game, don't let them convince you of the contrary.

 

Against heavy armor, it means that literally any tank can hurt them, which means that if a group of 5-6 players decide to focus a sidescrapping 705A/Maus or Hulldown IS-7/Cancertain they're going to either kill it or cause too much damage to it to make it worth to stay in position, which might turn out to be even worse than running into one or two tanks with high caliber guns hitting it for 400-600 every 15-25 seconds.

 

That argument does not fly for two reasons. One, there was such a drama storm over the Type Five and its derp gun that indicates players were quite unhappy with high caliber derps on tanks. Two, if five to six players are trying to focus on one Heavy, than that's an incredible waste of your team's HP to kill ONE tank. 

 

View Posttanopasman62, on Oct 18 2019 - 16:20, said:

Against weak armor it means a buff, sure, they'll take more damage than a Maus, for example, but it's completely useless to shoot HE at them anyway when a 128mm HE is going to do 270 damage while an AP shell will be doing 670, it means low/medium caliber guns will have a bad time fighting paper tanks with high alpha because they won't be able to use HE for a DPM boost against these anymore.

 

They won't be able to do triple damage anymore, which is a good thing. It's bad enough the AMX 50 100 is auto-penned by the majority of the Tier VIII+ Heavies, now it won't get raked over the coals because a KV-2 happened to snap shot across the map and hit a tiny edge of the hull. 

 

View Posttanopasman62, on Oct 18 2019 - 16:20, said:

In other words low/mid caliber HE is keeping it's usabilty more or less intact, as it exchanges the extra damage against weak armor for the ability to do any damage at all against heavy armor, which is not worth it, and high caliber HE is getting a HUGE nerf, and in the long term it might be even worse for tanks with heavy armor than it is now.

 

This is such a knee-jerk reaction. The sky is falling and so are the exaggerations. 


Edited by HeraldricKnight, Oct 18 2019 - 17:46.


Fat_Bob_1 #11 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:50

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The way HE is now doesn't both me at all. Sure, if you go around a corner and catch one in the face from a T49 or a KV2 it's going to leave a mark but...Watch your mini map and know where those guys were last seen!

 

Most of the complaints I've seen are newer players (< 50000 battles) that spent their allowance on a t8 premium and can't play it. Run out there and take one up the a$$ and then complain about it. There should be restrictions on who can buy these tanks IMHO.



SargeanTravis #12 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:54

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WG LOGIC:

 

Perceived "problem": Low caliber HE is not stronk

 

Easy solution: Buffing the low caliber HE, not ruining middle tier and high tier HE derp tanks

 

WG's "Perceived Solution": Nerf bat the hell out of high caliber HE so it's on par with low calibr, ruining many of the playerbase's favorite HE tanks

 

 

Because that totally makes sense



tanopasman62 #13 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:00

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 18 2019 - 17:46, said:

They won't be able to do triple damage anymore, which is a good thing. It's bad enough the AMX 50 100 is auto-penned by the majority of the Tier VIII+ Heavies, now it won't get raked over the coals because a KV-2 happened to snap shot across the map and hit a tiny edge of the hull. 

 

 

This is such a knee-jerk reaction. The sky is falling and so are the exaggerations. 

 

The same AMX 50 100 that can potentially delete any tier 8 and lower in one clip, it was always a high risk/reward tank  and will still be lolpenned by derps firing  AP even more reliably so nothing changes for this tank in particular, it's not just about high caliber HE but you seem to be fixated on it for some reason.

 

We get it, you're salty, now quit talking nonsense before they ruin the game.



ragnar2345 #14 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:04

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Having seen and read reports on HE impact results on real tanks in real life, go ahead and nerf the HE. But if you nerf it, then the STUN effect needs to be increased almost as much. This is a realistic effect of HE on a crew with no penetration. The concussive wave is pretty damn bad on crew inside a tank. Just an opinion. Really just leave it alone.   
This "solution" isn't nerfing HE, it is castrating it.

HeraldricKnight #15 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:06

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View Posttanopasman62, on Oct 18 2019 - 17:00, said:

 

The same AMX 50 100 that can potentially delete any tier 8 and lower in one clip, it was always a high risk/reward tank  and will still be lolpenned by derps firing  AP even more reliably so nothing changes for this tank in particular, it's not just about high caliber HE but you seem to be fixated on it for some reason.

 

We get it, you're salty, now quit talking nonsense before they ruin the game.


You seem super salty about not being able to one-shot tanks. After all, that's the only reason why people are defending something like the KV-2 or the 105mm Sherman, because it's so easy to farm with them. 

 

HE will finally be more reliable in lower caliber guns. This is an overall buff, not a nerf. The sky isn't falling Chicken Little. 

 

Wait, I just too a peek at your tank selection and it's pretty evident why you don't want the change. You actually have to aim now, lol. 


Edited by HeraldricKnight, Oct 18 2019 - 18:08.


khorender_1 #16 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:13

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View PostFat_Bob_1, on Oct 18 2019 - 17:50, said:

The way HE is now doesn't both me at all. Sure, if you go around a corner and catch one in the face from a T49 or a KV2 it's going to leave a mark but...Watch your mini map and know where those guys were last seen!

 

Most of the complaints I've seen are newer players (< 50000 battles) that spent their allowance on a t8 premium and can't play it. Run out there and take one up the a$$ and then complain about it. There should be restrictions on who can buy these tanks IMHO.

 

Restrictions in a free to play game ? hahahahaha



SargeanTravis #17 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:15

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 18 2019 - 18:06, said:


You seem super salty about not being able to one-shot tanks. After all, that's the only reason why people are defending something like the KV-2 or the 105mm Sherman, because it's so easy to farm with them. 

 

HE will finally be more reliable in lower caliber guns. This is an overall buff, not a nerf. The sky isn't falling Chicken Little. 

 

Wait, I just too a peek at your tank selection and it's pretty evident why you don't want the change. You actually have to aim now, lol. 

KV-2: Am I a joke to you?

 

The KV2 is super reliant on HE. Doing 200-600 damage reliably is better than shooting 800-900 damage rounds and then having then non pen or ricochet entirely. 

 

That is if you play the KV 2 with the proper gun instead of the 107 mm like a idiot


Edited by SargeanTravis, Oct 18 2019 - 18:16.


SkunkButt #18 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:19

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The answer is pretty clear:

 

Use premium or loose any ability to play the game, even at low tiers.

 

If these changes go through and premium is left as it is... it's time to just quit entirely.

All of those 183b users will be yelling for a refund (even those who gained them by legit grind) since the vehicle, which can use HE currently tho they seldom do, will be relegated to being forced to use HESH (which most, but not all, usually do) 100% of the time.



mlinke #19 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:20

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they are always fixing stuff that is not needed or asked form them. They fix it to be more broken. 

tanopasman62 #20 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:20

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View PostSargeanTravis, on Oct 18 2019 - 18:15, said:

KV-2: Am I a joke to you?

 

The KV2 is super reliant on HE. Doing 200-600 damage reliably is better than shooting 800-900 damage rounds and then having then non pen or ricochet entirely. 

 

That is if you play the KV 2 with the proper gun instead of the 107 mm like a idiot

 

That's the point, this 49%er is salty because he got rekt by one, and if he's not having fun, nobody should be able to.

 

View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 18 2019 - 18:06, said:


You seem super salty about not being able to one-shot tanks. After all, that's the only reason why people are defending something like the KV-2 or the 105mm Sherman, because it's so easy to farm with them. 

 

HE will finally be more reliable in lower caliber guns. This is an overall buff, not a nerf. The sky isn't falling Chicken Little. 

 

Wait, I just too a peek at your tank selection and it's pretty evident why you don't want the change. You actually have to aim now, lol. 

 

From my previous post

 

Block Quote

 Against weak armor it means a buff, sure, they'll take more damage than a Maus, for example, but it's completely useless to shoot HE at them anyway when a 128mm HE is going do do 270 damage while an AP shell will be doing 670, it means low/medium caliber guns will have a bad time fighting paper tanks with high alpha because they won't be able to use HE for a DPM boost against these anymore.

 

I play regular medium tanks (Mainly the STA-2, I need credits and stuff) far more often than I play my KV-2 and this is a direct buff to Skorpions, and I am not fond towards anything that benefits that broken pos.






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