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Simple Fix to Sandbox


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Engineer777 #1 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:47

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I'd LOVE the Sandbox server if they did one thing:

Give these 0 pen HE rounds the same damage as the new "special" rounds.

 

BTW:

Contrary to what Quickybaby said, live server HE pen does NOT affect non-penetrating damage rolls.

 

Tier VI KV-2 w/ 152mm:
Live server:        Pen:110/136/86 Damage: 700/700/910

Sandbox server: Pen: 110/136/0  Damage: 870/700/330

My proposal:       Pen 110/136/0   Damage: 870/700/700

 

Tier V M4A1 Sherman w/ 105mm:

Live server:        Pen: 53/102 Damage: 410/350

Sandbox server: Pen: 0/101  Damage: 165/350

My proposal:       Pen 0/101   Damage: 350/350

 

Tier I Strv fm/21 w/ 20mm:

Live server:        Pen:27/38/10 Damage: 12/12/16

Sandbox server: Pen: 27/38/0  Damage: 14/12/5

My proposal:       Pen: 27/38/0  Damage 14/12/12


Edited by Engineer777, Oct 18 2019 - 19:06.


the_dude_76 #2 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:55

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What?? So in other words make everything other than HE completely worthless and obsolete. HE will do the same damage as AP but you don't have to worry about bouncing or ricochets, you'll do average damage with every shot that hits. Why would you ever fire anything else...

Engineer777 #3 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:57

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Oct 18 2019 - 17:55, said:

What?? So in other words make everything other than HE completely worthless and obsolete. HE will do the same damage as AP but you don't have to worry about bouncing or ricochets, you'll do average damage with every shot that hits. Why would you ever fire anything else...


Armor values are subtracted from HE damage.



HeraldricKnight #4 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:58

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Or give turreted derp guns AP rounds. 

Engineer777 #5 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 17:59

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I've edited the original post to make HE shells equal damage to premium and not standard AP.

the_dude_76 #6 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 18:50

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View PostEngineer777, on Oct 18 2019 - 10:57, said:


Armor values are subtracted from HE damage.

 

So for a minimal decrease in damage you get to remove RNG, not to mention angled armor, from the equation... Again, why would you fire anything else?? 

 

AP would become the new HE, a situational round that you'll never have loaded when that situation arises. It'll get moved to the 3 slot and only loaded when you know you'll be able to over-match the enemy you're facing. Ironically AP would become the better choice for attacking lightly armored targets. Yeah, I know this isn't a simulator but that just flies in the face of logic...



Engineer777 #7 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 19:05

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Oct 18 2019 - 18:50, said:

 

So for a minimal decrease in damage you get to remove RNG, not to mention angled armor, from the equation... Again, why would you fire anything else?? 

 

AP would become the new HE, a situational round that you'll never have loaded when that situation arises. It'll get moved to the 3 slot and only loaded when you know you'll be able to over-match the enemy you're facing. Ironically AP would become the better choice for attacking lightly armored targets. Yeah, I know this isn't a simulator but that just flies in the face of logic...


High Explosive is ALREADY the go-to round for the tanks that I made examples with (other than Strv). Let's look at another example:
Tier X Object 140 w/ 100mm:

My proposal: Pen 264/330/0 Damage: 385/320/320

APCR: Upon hit, ~70% chance to deal 385 = 270 damage

HEAT: Upon hit, ~90% chance to deal 320 = 288 damage

HE: Upon hit, 100% chance to deal (320-[~100mm armor])=220 damage


Edited by Engineer777, Oct 18 2019 - 19:06.


HOTA_CHATON #8 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 19:38

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View PostEngineer777, on Oct 18 2019 - 10:47, said:

I'd LOVE the Sandbox server if they did one thing:

Give these 0 pen HE rounds the same damage as the new "special" rounds.

 

BTW:

Contrary to what Quickybaby said, live server HE pen does NOT affect non-penetrating damage rolls.

 

Tier VI KV-2 w/ 152mm:
Live server:        Pen:110/136/86 Damage: 700/700/910

Sandbox server: Pen: 110/136/0  Damage: 870/700/330

My proposal:       Pen 110/136/0   Damage: 870/700/700

 

Tier V M4A1 Sherman w/ 105mm:

Live server:        Pen: 53/102 Damage: 410/350

Sandbox server: Pen: 0/101  Damage: 165/350

My proposal:       Pen 0/101   Damage: 350/350

 

Tier I Strv fm/21 w/ 20mm:

Live server:        Pen:27/38/10 Damage: 12/12/16

Sandbox server: Pen: 27/38/0  Damage: 14/12/5

My proposal:       Pen: 27/38/0  Damage 14/12/12


Most of us will go you one better: Leave it alone and don't mess with it.  Work on something constructive like fixing real issues and problems  instead of creating them.



Engineer777 #9 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 19:41

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Oct 18 2019 - 19:38, said:


Most of us will go you one better: Leave it alone and don't mess with it.  Work on something constructive like fixing real issues and problems  instead of creating them.

 

As Circonflexes said, and both I and WG agree, penning HE shells with poor penetration thanks to RNG then doing THREE TIMES the normal damage is not healthy for gameplay.


Edited by Engineer777, Oct 18 2019 - 19:41.


the_dude_76 #10 Posted Oct 18 2019 - 22:16

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View PostEngineer777, on Oct 18 2019 - 12:05, said:


High Explosive is ALREADY the go-to round for the tanks that I made examples with (other than Strv). Let's look at another example:
 

 

And your proposal will make it the go-to round in EVERY TANK. Not sure if I can make that point any more clear and not sure why we'd want that...

 

Block Quote

 

My proposal: Pen 264/330/0 Damage: 385/320/320

APCR: Upon hit, ~70% chance to deal 385 = 270 damage

HEAT: Upon hit, ~90% chance to deal 320 = 288 damage

HE: Upon hit, 100% chance to deal (320-[~100mm armor])=220 damage

 

 

And I can pull penetration percentages out of my @ss and get the opposite result.

 

You're also ignoring the fact that the HE round will find and damage the WEAKEST part of the armor within the splash radius so you won't be deducting 100 from the damage on the HE round

 

Learning to angle armor or find weak spots will be a thing of the past. New, or poor, players will just spam HE and do damage every time. More damage, likely by a significant amount, than such players would be able to do under the current or proposed systems.

 



Engineer777 #11 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 01:07

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Oct 18 2019 - 22:16, said:

 

And your proposal will make it the go-to round in EVERY TANK. Not sure if I can make that point any more clear and not sure why we'd want that...

 

 

 

And I can pull penetration percentages out of my @ss and get the opposite result.

 

You're also ignoring the fact that the HE round will find and damage the WEAKEST part of the armor within the splash radius so you won't be deducting 100 from the damage on the HE round

 

Learning to angle armor or find weak spots will be a thing of the past. New, or poor, players will just spam HE and do damage every time. More damage, likely by a significant amount, than such players would be able to do under the current or proposed systems.

 

So armor reduces HE damage by a insignificant amount? Then why do I only deal literally one single hitpoint of damage to almost every target when I shoot them with a 75 mm HE shell on sandbox?



the_dude_76 #12 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 16:15

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View PostEngineer777, on Oct 18 2019 - 18:07, said:

So armor reduces HE damage by a insignificant amount? Then why do I only deal literally one single hitpoint of damage to almost every target when I shoot them with a 75 mm HE shell on sandbox?

 

???? I'm talking about YOUR PLAN where the HE rounds would average 50 less damage than the APCR rounds in your example. Even though 50 is, IMO, a liberal estimate which ignores the mechanics of HE and assumes the enemy is a tomato who doesn't understand how to increase his effective armor value against those APCR rounds. Bounce just one extra round and that APCR average drops to 231 and of course even that is 100% dependent on RNG, not so with the HE rounds, you've removed RNG from that equation so which would be the better choice?? Seems pretty obvious to me...


Edited by the_dude_76, Oct 19 2019 - 16:51.


Peter_Schiavo #13 Posted Oct 20 2019 - 17:27

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The Sandbox. Tried playing last night. I had forgotten that it's on Belorus time and there was nobody around. I guess I could play now, but this is when the NA server has people on, so that is time better spent there..

 

In the end the Sandbox will reflect what our vodka-swilling betters want, not NA, SA, EU, or Asian servers. 






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