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How broken are TierX TDs?


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PanzerXO #1 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 04:29

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I was looking at a friend's stats, and in both of his Tier X TDs... he's barely green.

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And yet - he's averaging over 2k damage per game with a positive KR and DR.

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The question is... How good are the really good players doing in these?  

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Shiiii (can't say the rest)… I'd be happy to do 2k damage per game in any tank; but apparently that's merely AVERAGE in a Tier X TD?!?



Chtholly_Seniorious #2 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 04:41

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View PostPanzerXO, on Oct 19 2019 - 04:29, said:

I was looking at a friend's stats, and in both of his Tier X TDs... he's barely green.

.

And yet - he's averaging over 2k damage per game with a positive KR and DR.

.

The question is... How good are the really good players doing in these?  

.

Shiiii (can't say the rest)… I'd be happy to do 2k damage per game in any tank; but apparently that's merely AVERAGE in a Tier X TD?!?

2k is going to be green in any tier 10 other than lts



PanzerXO #3 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 04:52

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View PostChtholly_Seniorious, on Oct 18 2019 - 22:41, said:

2k is going to be green in any tier 10 other than lts


Really?  What's blue?



PanzerXO #4 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 04:53

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View PostChtholly_Seniorious, on Oct 18 2019 - 22:41, said:

2k is going to be green in any tier 10 other than lts


Hold on... That's not correct.  Meds and others at Tier X are Blue with @ 2k DPG



Copacetic #5 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 04:57

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they arnt'' broken your friend just sucks

PanzerXO #6 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 05:03

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View PostCopacetic, on Oct 18 2019 - 22:57, said:

they arnt'' broken your friend just sucks


It's a possible answer - but he's got a 53% w/r... So he don't suck completely!



alphadogg64 #7 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 05:33

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2k damage at tier 10 is kinda pitiful. You should be managing that at tier 8.

Chtholly_Seniorious #8 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 05:57

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2k without a kill is geen with is going to be like 1.8k-2k wn8 not even.  At tier 10 you should be striving for 3k dmg and 2 kills if you want good wn8

JakeTheMystic #9 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 07:35

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View PostChtholly_Seniorious, on Oct 18 2019 - 19:57, said:

2k without a kill is geen with is going to be like 1.8k-2k wn8 not even.  At tier 10 you should be striving for 3k dmg and 2 kills if you want good wn8

 

Ahem, kills aren't a factor for wn8 calculations 



_PoliticallyIncorrect #10 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 07:45

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Generally speaking, Tank destroyers have slightly higher damage requirements than normal tanks. To be blue in a normal TD at tier 10 you need about 2.4K damage with a kill I believe. 

Edited by _PoliticallyIncorrect, Oct 19 2019 - 07:46.


death_stryker #11 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 07:46

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Tier 10 TDs do have especially high expected values (i.e. lower WN8 for the same DPG), as after all players do tend to do more damage in them than in other tanks (and yes, 2k DPG at tier 10, where the average tank has >2k HP, isn't particularly high). The numerical difference between blue and green in this case is only about 200 WN8 by the looks of it, 2k DPG in a TD is about 1400 WN8, and in a medium or heavy might be about 1600, so not a big difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

OP, I see that you don't often play higher tiers, which explains your bewilderment. In general, tier 10 DPG numbers are often less impressive than they appear.



Firemoth #12 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 08:42

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id say that 2k dmg in a tier 10 TD is pretty low.

alphadogg64 #13 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 08:47

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Oct 19 2019 - 06:35, said:

 

Ahem, kills aren't a factor for wn8 calculations 

 

Ahem, it 100% is. Please educate yourself before acting all condescending by going "ahem"



JakeTheMystic #14 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 10:03

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View Postalphadogg64, on Oct 18 2019 - 22:47, said:

 

Ahem, it 100% is. Please educate yourself before acting all condescending by going "ahem"

 

The formula also says it takes into account initial spotting, but why would someone in a T100LT get sub-100 wn8 for a game if they did 12k spotting and only 1 shot of damage? The system is so heavily weighted towards damage in comparison to the expected values that everything else is arguable irrelevant. Kills, spotting, cap reset points and win rate are all "part of the formula" but have such low impact that if you think kills make a large difference, you're mistaken. ahem



alphadogg64 #15 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 10:18

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Oct 19 2019 - 09:03, said:

 

The formula also says it takes into account initial spotting, but why would someone in a T100LT get sub-100 wn8 for a game if they did 12k spotting and only 1 shot of damage? The system is so heavily weighted towards damage in comparison to the expected values that everything else is arguable irrelevant. Kills, spotting, cap reset points and win rate are all "part of the formula" but have such low impact that if you think kills make a large difference, you're mistaken. ahem

 

Ooo a swing and a miss



alphadogg64 #16 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 10:37

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Oct 19 2019 - 09:03, said:

 

The formula also says it takes into account initial spotting, but why would someone in a T100LT get sub-100 wn8 for a game if they did 12k spotting and only 1 shot of damage? The system is so heavily weighted towards damage in comparison to the expected values that everything else is arguable irrelevant. Kills, spotting, cap reset points and win rate are all "part of the formula" but have such low impact that if you think kills make a large difference, you're mistaken. ahem

 

[edited], I just reread what you had to say, WN8 does not, I repeat DOES NOT take into account spotting damage. It takes into account initial spots (as in you were the first person to spot said tank in the battle). It is also based on expected values, as in expected damage and expected initial spots. Let's use that T100LT example you provided. So he did 12k spotting and 1 shot of damage, great. But let's say he got 5 initial spots, I don't know what the expected value of initial spots is for the T100LT, but it is one of the best scouts in the game (and it's tier 10) so probable pretty high, meaning he probably got an average amount of initial spots. Partner this with the trash tier damage he did, and 200wn8 is very believable.

 

One thing that you did get right was that some values such as initial spots and capture points have much less swaying power in the WN8 formula. Damage does matter the most, however kills come second, and they come second by quite a bit. Kills have enough weight behind them in the formula that they can make the difference between having trash WN8 and having good WN8. 

 

THE MORE YOU KNOW



InfinityGamer #17 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 10:55

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Oct 19 2019 - 19:03, said:

The formula also says it takes into account initial spotting, but why would someone in a T100LT get sub-100 wn8 for a game if they did 12k spotting and only 1 shot of damage? The system is so heavily weighted towards damage in comparison to the expected values that everything else is arguable irrelevant. Kills, spotting, cap reset points and win rate are all "part of the formula" but have such low impact that if you think kills make a large difference, you're mistaken. ahem

Firstly, yes, the formula takes into account INITIAL spotting. As in, when you light an enemy for the first time during a battle and you get the little "(X tank) spotted" on your screen. This is not the same as spotting damage, which is not included anywhere in the formula.

 

Secondly, you're right, damage is undoubtedly the single most important parameter for the wn8 calculations, but if you think that means the other variables don't make much of a difference to the total, you're mistaken. For example, the difference between averaging 0 kills per game vs 2 per game is at least 500+ extra wn8. Someone averaging 3.5k damage without any kills or initial spotting could easily be beaten out in wn8 by someone averaging 3k but with lots of kills and initial spotting.



9999bc #18 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 18:20

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Don’t forget gold ammo! Tier x is where you can expect full gold ammo majority of your games. So save up credits if want to be really good in tier x tanks.

gmotoman #19 Posted Oct 19 2019 - 19:07

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IDK I sold my T110E3 because I could barely mange 1200 damage per game.  I have terrible stats but I absolutely sucked in that beautiful machine.




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