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HE CHANGES ARE NOT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK!


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Burning_Haggis #61 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 05:18

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View PostBlackstone, on Oct 22 2019 - 05:38, said:

Notice how it's mostly the unicum players that SUPPORT the HE changes, while the rest of us DON'T support them?

Interesting, isn't it? 

So, a select minority of players (unicums) want to ruin the fun for the rest of the player-base (the vast majority of players).

I guess the unicums want to make WoT a game just for THEM and not for...ya know...everybody else.

Good job! You're on your way to drive even more players away from a game that's already dwindling in popularity! What a stupid idea! 

I am far from a uni, and I would whole-heartedly support nerfing the hell out of most of the HE guns.   



InfinityGamer #62 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 10:09

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View PostThe_War_Master_2019, on Oct 24 2019 - 12:40, said:

QB was the one who brought that up. Nerfing the primary ammo of those vehicles just encourages everyone to spam the HEAT

Ok, but if people want to spam HEAT now they can. So the tanks aren't being buffed as the OP claims. Personally, I like the changes.



omi5cron #63 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 11:42

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im no great player...but i want to see how this plays out.if there will no longer be the one-shot HE tank deletion dealt by certain tanks...i will like it i think.thinking of KV2, Pz IV H and M4

Blackstone #64 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 12:11

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Oct 23 2019 - 23:18, said:

I am far from a uni, and I would whole-heartedly support nerfing the hell out of most of the HE guns.   

 

I said "mostly" not "all".

Besides, the majority of the player-base according to the poll do not want to change HE.

 



HeraldricKnight #65 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 13:36

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View PostBlackstone, on Oct 24 2019 - 11:11, said:

 

I said "mostly" not "all".

Besides, the majority of the player-base according to the poll do not want to change HE.

 


A 'poll' with less than 500 votes is the majority of the entire player base. Seriously Blackstone, if aiming is such a struggle for you there's always artillery.



Atragon #66 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 13:59

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View PostBlackstone, on Oct 24 2019 - 06:11, said:

 

I said "mostly" not "all".

Besides, the majority of the player-base according to the poll do not want to change HE.

 

Also watching the CC streamers and the good ones that are well known, they are not for it either. 


Edited by Atragon, Oct 24 2019 - 13:59.


Trauglodyte #67 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 16:21

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 23 2019 - 19:44, said:

 

I know you were happy with the easy mode that is the new sandbox iteration. Dont worry that wont stick around long either.

 

The new iteration of HE has it back to where it was, pre-1st iteration.  I'm estimating that this is because NOT the +75% damage increase (by itself) but SOLELY because of the combination of the +75% damage buff and the increase of damage falloff value from 0.1x, at the edge, to 0.5x.  So, going off what I remembered, if a 150 mm gun had, in the 1st iteration, a damage value of 375, it would now do 655 damage.  I would call that, for the most part, balanced, especially when you factor in a 0 penetration value.  But, where that now gets wonky is that the 1st iteration fall of max would have dropped it from 375 to 37.5 damage.  NOW, it grows from would have been 65.5 damage, with the 0.1x factor applied, to 327.5, with the 0.5x factor applied.  Given that HE rarely, if ever, needs to roll all of the way to the max edge of its splash radius, it means that big guns are now back to 400-500 damage rolls with no aiming.

 

Really wish that WarGaming would have just evaluated the damage increase OR the damage drop off values, as singular changes.  By making both changes, in conjunction, they've essentially ruined their baseline studies.  At this point, the only thing that they achieved was fixing engine fires from hitting Commander cupolas.



The_War_Master_2019 #68 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 17:22

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 13:36, said:


A 'poll' with less than 500 votes is the majority of the entire player base. Seriously Blackstone, if aiming is such a struggle for you there's always artillery.

The Russians hate it too. If WG doesn't listen I won't be surprised though



Bonfor #69 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 17:33

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So according to Raging Raptor, in the 4th iteration, they've gone too far in the other direction:

 



Trauglodyte #70 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 18:00

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View PostBonfor, on Oct 24 2019 - 17:33, said:

So according to Raging Raptor, in the 4th iteration, they've gone too far in the other direction:

 

 

I haven't tested it, since it is both new and the low volume of players, on test, is such that getting leveled up is absolute bulls hit.  But, as I surmised above, I'm betting that this problem is an exponential one, predicated upon a double change in increasing damage and altering the falloff reduction factor.  WarGaming doing WarGaming things - shocker!

 

EDIT:  If anyone from WG reads this and/or someone has insider knowledge, I'd love to know why the devs don't do an internal closed test, to get the kinks out, prior to making it available to public semi-closed test.  You'd think that someone, in Minsk, would look at that and go, "Wow!  KV-2 damage went from low 100s to 600.  That doesn't seem like it is what we want, comrades!"


Edited by Trauglodyte, Oct 24 2019 - 18:02.


Hellsfog #71 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 18:40

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View PostBlackstone, on Oct 24 2019 - 06:11, said:

 

I said "mostly" not "all".

Besides, the majority of the player-base according to the poll do not want to change HE.

 

 

View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 07:36, said:


A 'poll' with less than 500 votes is the majority of the entire player base. Seriously Blackstone, if aiming is such a struggle for you there's always artillery.

 WG is testing the mechanic changes not balancing damage. The fact that players don't understand this fact is yet another reason WG shouldn't listen to it's player base. I'm sure there will be plenty of time to run around with your hair on fire later, much later probably. 



Avalon304 #72 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 18:59

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Oct 24 2019 - 10:00, said:

EDIT:  If anyone from WG reads this and/or someone has insider knowledge, I'd love to know why the devs don't do an internal closed test, to get the kinks out, prior to making it available to public semi-closed test.  You'd think that someone, in Minsk, would look at that and go, "Wow!  KV-2 damage went from low 100s to 600.  That doesn't seem like it is what we want, comrades!"

 

They likely do do an internal test... but you can only get so much data from those. The whole point of sandbox was to give them a larger server that played semi like the live server in which they could get proper data.



Trauglodyte #73 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 19:32

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View PostAvalon304, on Oct 24 2019 - 18:59, said:

 

They likely do do an internal test... but you can only get so much data from those. The whole point of sandbox was to give them a larger server that played semi like the live server in which they could get proper data.

 

True and I wouldn't argue against that.  It is just a little shocking that, with one pushed change, they can take the Type 5 back to pre-derp nerf.  Personally, I wish that they'd just make HE into 0 pen, 0 splash HEAT and call it a day.  Make the damage value BE the pen and then set a minimal value, for consistency.  With that, you still have to aim for weak(er) spots, tanks aren't insta-gibbed, and you're not walking around feeling like you lady farted on an opponent.  Been saying that, for years, but I don't carry much weight.

 

EDIT:  And, while not entirely on topic, it is still amazing to me that they ignore the penetration values on derp AP and HEAT rounds.  Outside of the laughs, the reason that people run derp guns is because HE, with Live pen values, essentially circumvent armor, while the AP rounds require a ton of aiming and maneuvering.  But, those changes might yet come.


Edited by Trauglodyte, Oct 24 2019 - 19:34.


Blackstone #74 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 20:39

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View PostHeraldricKnight, on Oct 24 2019 - 07:36, said:


A 'poll' with less than 500 votes is the majority of the entire player base. Seriously Blackstone, if aiming is such a struggle for you there's always artillery.

 

Never said it was hard to aim. Derp tanks are fun to play from time to time that's all.

 

Besides, if you're going to use aiming as a yardstick, you better point the finger at yourself. Stats don't lie.



HeraldricKnight #75 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 20:48

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View PostBlackstone, on Oct 24 2019 - 19:39, said:

 

Never said it was hard to aim. Derp tanks are fun to play from time to time that's all.

 

Besides, if you're going to use aiming as a yardstick, you better point the finger at yourself. Stats don't lie.


Oh really? Do you think my next 12K games can't bump my accuracy that whopping 4% to beat yours? 


Edited by HeraldricKnight, Oct 24 2019 - 20:49.


LpBronco #76 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 21:46

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on Oct 23 2019 - 23:18, said:

I am far from a uni, and I would whole-heartedly support nerfing the hell out of most of the HE guns.   

 

..add my name to the roster that thinks HE has gotten way out of control compared to "the day" and this will bring it back to what it was like earlier in the games development - and a good thing for game play from where I sit.

 

I do think there has to be special care taken with a couple of tanks that have always relied on large caliber derps and the KV-2 would be top of that list but it's time to retire the 105 derp.



Bonfor #77 Posted Oct 24 2019 - 22:01

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View PostLpBronco, on Oct 24 2019 - 12:46, said:

 

..add my name to the roster that thinks HE has gotten way out of control compared to "the day" and this will bring it back to what it was like earlier in the games development - and a good thing for game play from where I sit.

 

I do think there has to be special care taken with a couple of tanks that have always relied on large caliber derps and the KV-2 would be top of that list but it's time to retire the 105 derp.

 

You do realize that both Shermans that can mount the 105 are among the lowest performing mediums in their respective tiers, while the KV-2 is among the highest?



Gunn_Fyter #78 Posted Oct 25 2019 - 07:51

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View PostThe_War_Master_2019, on Oct 22 2019 - 05:12, said:

At first I thought the HE nerf was going to be a good one, then I downloaded the sandbox server to try it....

 

Boy was I wrong. Some of the most memed and iconic tanks in the game are ruined. This includes the KV2. So many times did I fire HE and I didn't even CT a tank, and do 0 damage. The AP in a KV2 is terrible, even the gold round is mediocre. What happens to players who own the KV2R? I'm glad I never bought that thing. 

 

What's worse is that the Sherman tanks, Pz4h, kv1, kv1s, hetzer, and any other low tier derp tanks have become unbalanced and ridiculously OP as everyone slings the HEAT rounds at you for 350 damage or more at a time. Even with the HP buffs, you are dead in 3 hits or less depending on your tank. 

 

I like everything about the sandbox test EXCEPT the HE nerf. This will not help new players. This will not bring more people to the game, in fact, people will leave because some of the most fun tanks are ruined. Save the HE. Derping won't even be as much of an issue since all vehicles are getting an HP buff anyway. This will only hurt the game.

 

And for you arty players....if they go through with this HE nerf, YOU'RE NEXT


Aren't HEAT and HESH also going to be rebalanced if the HE changes go through? They are still high explosive rounds despite their superior penetration. 

 

Oh, and if you're driving anything with an open top or with thin armor and this HE change goes live, you just got a huge buff. Spall liners will also be redundant since HE won't do enough damage anymore to justify wasting an equipment slot on them. 


Edited by Gunn_Fyter, Oct 25 2019 - 07:57.


Copacetic #79 Posted Oct 25 2019 - 13:30

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aslong as they don't touch HESH, I like to play the 183 to slap around all these clan [edited]with the OPd 907s, chieftains etc

Edited by Copacetic, Oct 25 2019 - 14:56.


The_War_Master_2019 #80 Posted Oct 25 2019 - 14:13

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View PostGunn_Fyter, on Oct 25 2019 - 07:51, said:


Aren't HEAT and HESH also going to be rebalanced if the HE changes go through? They are still high explosive rounds despite their superior penetration. 

 

Oh, and if you're driving anything with an open top or with thin armor and this HE change goes live, you just got a huge buff. Spall liners will also be redundant since HE won't do enough damage anymore to justify wasting an equipment slot on them. 

I like my t78 and my Skorpion as they are. I do not want them to have a buff they don't need






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