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How did this spotting happen?

spotting help

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TerrancePagoda #1 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 16:15

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Attached image: Fully concealed in my Type 64 behind a bush, not firing, I'm spotted by a medium tank behind another bush (which I could NOT spot, so no proximity spotting). (If it helps, the current position of my tank was not the position I was in when I was spotted. This was after I was lit and took some hits so I tried to fall back. I was hugging the building on my left and the bush to my front with just the front of my tank ahead of the building.)

 

What is happening here?

 

Frankly, this is the kind of thing that makes this game hard to play for me. I have about 9k battles, but crap like this still happens to me on the regular.

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CamiloCienfuegos #2 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 16:20

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In each new update this happens, I have observed that.

 

You can upload the video?


Edited by CamiloCienfuegos, Oct 27 2019 - 16:22.


4TheBox #3 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 16:24

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You do not know who spotted you in general. It might be another enemy tank who spotted you.

The concealment value for bushes are different. I believe in a fake bush and some bushes have holes as well.

In a word, it is a game. enjoy!


Edited by 4TheBox, Oct 27 2019 - 16:25.


Insanefriend #4 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 16:35

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What is your camo rating?  The bushes on that hill are close enough together that most tanks will get spotted.  Not to mention that there may have been another tank that spotted you.  As anything by the windmill on the west side of the map can spot half the middle.  Without seeing the minimap and positions of other tanks we can't make a good judge of what exactly happened.

the_dude_76 #5 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 16:36

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We can't tell what is happening without a replay but, as mentioned above, you have no way to know who spotted you. 

spud_tuber #6 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 16:37

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Repays are much more informative than a single screen shot.

gpc_4 #7 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 16:54

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The bushes on that map are very unreliable. Either they actually offer no camo or there are gaps that enemy tanks can spot you through. It's simple, the bush you were hiding behind wasn't actually adding additional camo and the VK spotted you.

spud_tuber #8 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 17:06

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View Postgpc_4, on Oct 27 2019 - 09:54, said:

The bushes on that map are very unreliable. Either they actually offer no camo or there are gaps that enemy tanks can spot you through. It's simple, the bush you were hiding behind wasn't actually adding additional camo and the VK spotted you.

^this is certainly a possibility.   There are issues with at least some of the bushes on fisherman's bay.   I'm not sure if that particular one is known to have problems or not.



HOTA_CHATON #9 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 17:07

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View PostTerrancePagoda, on Oct 27 2019 - 09:15, said:

Attached image: Fully concealed in my Type 64 behind a bush, not firing, I'm spotted by a medium tank behind another bush (which I could NOT spot, so no proximity spotting). (If it helps, the current position of my tank was not the position I was in when I was spotted. This was after I was lit and took some hits so I tried to fall back. I was hugging the building on my left and the bush to my front with just the front of my tank ahead of the building.)

 

What is happening here?

 

Frankly, this is the kind of thing that makes this game hard to play for me. I have about 9k battles, but crap like this still happens to me on the regular.


Despite their best tries, this game has the lousiest spotting mechanics I have ever seen and they keep getting worse.  They definitely do not work as WG claims they do and haven't since I discovered and began playing this game.



TerrancePagoda #10 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 18:53

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Here is the full replay if anyone cares to take a look. I've gone back over it and still have no clue.

 

http://wotreplays.eu...epagoda-type_64



appendage #11 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 18:56

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Point at doll where bad man touched you.

:bush:



Insanefriend #12 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 19:14

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View PostTerrancePagoda, on Oct 27 2019 - 11:53, said:

Here is the full replay if anyone cares to take a look. I've gone back over it and still have no clue.

 

http://wotreplays.eu...epagoda-type_64

 

Checked it out, what is your effective camo on the Type 64?  Since the view range on the vk is like 380+ meters and you were pretty close to him.  Running the quick math assuming your camo is 30% base + 30% from the bush you'd get a total of 60% camo.  

 

So with 60% camo 380m is 152m for spotting, the other side of that road is pretty close.  Looking at the replay he was 94m away from you so for the bushes to work you'd need a effective camo of 75%.

 

Not sure where but there is someplace it listed how much camo a bush provides.



TerrancePagoda #13 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 19:25

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30.7 % concealment (does that sound right? I don't usually look at that number).

 

And I'm not running a cammo net. So... you can spot through a bush if you're close enough but still outside the proximity spotting range? That's something I've somehow missed in my time playing. I've also never seen videos/replays where people experience or talk about it.

 

Can you recommend a ways for me to figure this out? Article, video, etc.? Maybe I need to read back over the details of the spotting mechanics...



Flarvin #14 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 19:53

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View PostTerrancePagoda, on Oct 27 2019 - 13:25, said:

30.7 % concealment (does that sound right? I don't usually look at that number).

 

And I'm not running a cammo net. So... you can spot through a bush if you're close enough but still outside the proximity spotting range? That's something I've somehow missed in my time playing. I've also never seen videos/replays where people experience or talk about it.

 

Can you recommend a ways for me to figure this out? Article, video, etc.? Maybe I need to read back over the details of the spotting mechanics...


Yes, you can get spotted through bushes. 
 

Being in the bush, where the bush is transparent, provides a bonus to camo. But firing reduces the bonus. 
 

Being behind a bush, where the bush is opaque, provides a bonus, which is not reduced unless within 15m when firing. 
 

Also bush’s bonuses stack, until you fire, then only the highest bonus applies. 
 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Battle_Mechanics#Visibility
 

 



Insanefriend #15 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 20:13

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Read back over the details and look for some scouting tip videos on Youtube.  Or get a buddy to play around in a training room with so you can get a good sense of how it works.  Though even if you do that there are still some things that make no sense about scouting.  Watch this video below and it teaches you how maxxed out camo on a scout can be broken.

 



cloudwalkr #16 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 20:18

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A few quick things:

 

We need a replay to actually form any opinion.

There are a lot of little gaps in between bushes in those rows that can allow an enemy to light you if you're not careful.  That may have happened.

I regularly kill tanks where you are located in that screenshot because I can light them after they fire most times.  Had you just fired?

 

we really need a replay to offer any kind of help.  

 

@Terrance - I've helped a lot of people learn the spotting mechanics and how they work specifically.  Feel free to send me a msg in game and we can take 10min and look at some things.  Usually once I kinda show someone exactly what's happening they pick it up quickly.


Edited by cloudwalkr, Oct 27 2019 - 20:20.


Insanefriend #17 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 20:41

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View Postcloudwalkr, on Oct 27 2019 - 13:18, said:

A few quick things:

 

We need a replay to actually form any opinion.

There are a lot of little gaps in between bushes in those rows that can allow an enemy to light you if you're not careful.  That may have happened.

I regularly kill tanks where you are located in that screenshot because I can light them after they fire most times.  Had you just fired?

 

we really need a replay to offer any kind of help.  

 

@Terrance - I've helped a lot of people learn the spotting mechanics and how they work specifically.  Feel free to send me a msg in game and we can take 10min and look at some things.  Usually once I kinda show someone exactly what's happening they pick it up quickly.

 

There is a replay, he posted it back up a few posts.



Reichmonk #18 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 23:13

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That map is famous for having the most fake bushes. So, another fake bush you were hiding behind. Somehow these is a hole in the bush which does not show, and you can't see it. How i do not know, but you can try same thing with about half the bushes on that map and they fail.

cloudwalkr #19 Posted Oct 27 2019 - 23:52

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View PostInsanefriend, on Oct 27 2019 - 20:41, said:

 

There is a replay, he posted it back up a few posts.

 

oh I missed that, thank you.  I'll go check it out and see if I see anything that might help.

 

Edit:  After watching the replay I wonder if the enemy had binocs up and it was good enough to dig in and light you.  To be honest, I was a bit shocked you got lit when you did like that as well.  It wouldn't surprise me if enemy had binocs.

 

Bushes don't give you 100% camo when you are behind them, they just give you extra camo %.  I think ( I stress 'think';) it's 15% per bush covering your tank.  So one bush would give you 15% camo bonus.  So if you have 30% camo + 15% bush = 45% camo < His view range with binocs setup in the bush at that close range - then he'll light you.  I could be wrong and I'd love to see his replay to verify if he is running binocs...but this is my guess so far.

 

Shoot me a msg in game and we can go and look at some different spots to play on that map that are very close to where you were at.

 

EDIT:  So my overall idea is right but it's not 15%

 


Edited by cloudwalkr, Oct 28 2019 - 00:23.


cloudwalkr #20 Posted Oct 28 2019 - 00:12

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View PostReichmonk, on Oct 27 2019 - 23:13, said:

That map is famous for having the most fake bushes. So, another fake bush you were hiding behind. Somehow these is a hole in the bush which does not show, and you can't see it. How i do not know, but you can try same thing with about half the bushes on that map and they fail.

 

This is probably what it was, honestly.







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