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How to contribute more to team in a glass cannon?

german td st emil glass cannon wins win rate

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mister_snuffleupagus #1 Posted Oct 30 2019 - 20:43

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Hey guys, I have started down the German glass cannon TD line, and I seem to be on-paper pretty effective in them (competitive stats across Pz IVc, Nashorn, Dicker Max, St. Emil), but one thing I seem to be lacking are wins. Particularly, I am ranked fairly competitively in the St. Emil (top 30 in most notable categories in the last month, out of approximately 500 players with more than 30 games in the tank, except WR), averaging 1110 damage overall, a >2 KDR, >1.6 dmg ratio, 33% survival (is this good with a only 40% Win Rate? Feels like I am always one of the last few on my team, so not sure how much better this could be really) got a MOE in 60 games, etc. Compared to most players with similar stats in the tank, however, my win rate seems to be dramatically lower. For instance, I am 28th in damage, but have a 40% Win Rate in 60 games (lowest amongst ALL players in the top 50 for damage), and across all the glass cannons (IVc, Nashorn, Emil, Dicker), I have far below average Win Rate, but typically somewhere between 65th and 85th percentile damage output. What can I do to contribute more to victories in these things? I am having a blast in St. Emil honestly; might actually keep it now that I finished grind to Borsig which seems contrary to most players, it is great fun, but I would certainly like to be a better team player and contribute to victories more.

 

One hypothesis I have is: the glass cannons I've used so far are all pretty slow, so by the time you get to the point where you can really churn out the damage in a sit-back style play, it is usually too late to really contribute to the victory, as getting large damage means your team got wrekt on the front you are sitting at and you are just doing damage control more or less on the guys who broke through.

 

My response to this hypothesis has been, when I see I am in a map with an area that typically has high cqb style of play, I ask someone to butt bump me to near the front line and just pseudo-brawl in the thing, since I can overmatch just about everything tier 9 and below at least somewhere frontally, and as long as I can find a heavy to get behind, I have the HP to be able to peek-a-boom and contribute a bit more to the victory while having about 2 shots worth of play room before I have to back out. I find that in a very small sample size (have started doing this maybe the last 10 matches) this seems like it could be a viable strategy, but again, it is not very optimal due to only 850 HP and basically auto pens from everything if you aren't careful.

 

TL; DR: what can you do as a TD to play in a sit-back style to be better for your team? This seems like for Rhm, WTIV, and Grille like the best strategy, so it seems like it would be good to get better at it sooner than later. Or is the get up and brawl peek-a-boom actually a useful style for these tanks?


Edited by mister_snuffleupagus, Oct 30 2019 - 20:46.


Volcanic_lobster_220 #2 Posted Oct 30 2019 - 22:50

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I usually hate paper tanks but i like my Dicker Max, can't give much help on the Grille 15 line cause i've only gone down the other one.

_PoliticallyIncorrect #3 Posted Oct 30 2019 - 23:49

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A 30% Survival rating is decently high, but this could also be the reason you lose. See, to win games, you have to press W, yes even in a glass cannon tank destroyer. But it's hard to say for sure without seeing your replays, you could just be having an unlucky month as well if you are doing everything correctly. Tank destroyers are this game's snipers, but in close games you do eventually have to move up and brawl with the lower HP tanks. You wont bounce anything obviously, but you will be sharing HP keeping other brawler tanks alive. 

mister_snuffleupagus #4 Posted Oct 31 2019 - 04:12

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View Post_PoliticallyIncorrect, on Oct 30 2019 - 22:49, said:

A 30% Survival rating is decently high, but this could also be the reason you lose. See, to win games, you have to press W, yes even in a glass cannon tank destroyer. But it's hard to say for sure without seeing your replays, you could just be having an unlucky month as well if you are doing everything correctly. Tank destroyers are this game's snipers, but in close games you do eventually have to move up and brawl with the lower HP tanks. You wont bounce anything obviously, but you will be sharing HP keeping other brawler tanks alive. 

I have been playing more front line brawl style and it seems that might be the answer (limited sample of most recent 20 games or so, I've been having people bump me to front line at start of game since I'm SO DAMN SLOW and just peek a booming, and win rate is ~55% in most recent games without much of a hit to my survival since I'm actually WINNING games instead of just being last man standing with 2k+ damage); my question is whether this is a sustainable practice that will translate as sample increases, or whether this is a bad idea longer term. Based on what you are suggesting, it sounds like, play back until most of the front line guys for other team have taken a few hits, and then move in and brawl?



Drunkenparrot #5 Posted Nov 04 2019 - 03:03

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I really learned a lot about the game grinding the waffentrager line. St. Emil is painful, just use the gun depression to alpha your way out of it but they get good at what they are about starting at tier VIlI. 
 

For me they are really good at red line sniping and with a couple exceptions their lack of armor and gun depression preclude brawling unless it’s what you have to do to make a play.

 

The To get the most out of glass cannons you have to understand how bushes, spotting range and cammo work. Multiple skilled crews also make a huge difference. Most of the line are fairly mobile so don’t camp, always move around to get more shot opportunities but stay back.

 

Some people play the Borsig up close using the 15cm and heat, however it has the best cammo of the line and for me the gunhandling,pen,dpm on the 12.8 using bushes and the redline worked best.

 

The Wt pZ IV is arguably the best of the line tier for tier. Again, I prefer the 12.8cm as well as it’s more true to what Grille play style works for me.


All three of them work better in close quarters if you reverse out of cover, the Borsig and Wt plz VI have better gun depression to the rear as well so get used to driving backwards.

 

A caveat on the Grille, you can often keep a whole flank of enemy tanks directly around the backside of a blind corner for an amazingly long time if they think you’ve had time to reload. By that same token the Grille cammo is heavy tank level and even with full cammo and net you get spotted amazingly easily and everyone shoots you first.

 

I am one of the people that originally ground the WTE 100 and got traded to the Grille 15 so it has always been Not or cold for me. I use an improved rammer, ammunition directive, chocolate with BIA and the rate of fire is crazy, the gun handling arguably the best in the game but the gun will troll you KV2 style like nothing else.

 

Hope this helps and sorry your a couple years late for the WTE-100. It really was that epically broken.:great:


Edited by Drunkenparrot, Nov 04 2019 - 03:09.


ChaseR392 #6 Posted Nov 04 2019 - 05:06

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View Post_PoliticallyIncorrect, on Oct 30 2019 - 23:49, said:

See, to win games, you have to press W, yes even in a glass cannon tank destroyer. 

 

I agree with this. The worst mistake in a TD you can make is to not keep pace with your team as they advance and start to push the reds back.... of course, the problem is you will also find yourself on teams of dolts that leave gaps with no spotting the reds could drive a battleship through....

 

The St. Emil is tough because although the gun depression is great and top gun is awesome.... its so slow and sluggish that it can be tough to advance forward in time if you are a little tardy getting started.... and it is also helpless if the enemy lights get through the line of mouth-breathers you are trying to support.

 

The 80 or so battles I have in mine were a roller coaster of really fun battles or really awful ones.... with pretty much no in-between.



Sad_But_Drew #7 Posted Nov 06 2019 - 01:31

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Good damage bad win rate..

 

Could be bad luck (tank Destroyers are not the best at carrying).  Could also be not getting enough shots at important targets early enough.  Using TDs (especially the glass cannon ones) is a balancing act between having shots at important targets and staying alive.  If you are doing most of your damage "late" (after your team is down 9 to 6 or something), you need to find other positions.  Try to anticipate where the enemy WILL be and find ways to shoot there (keep an eye on your team's lights).

 

Again, TDs and arty can play quite well and still lose handily if their team is bad enough (they don't carry that well especially at high tiers).  You are depending on your team to move forward enough that you have choices where to go, and that they will find the enemy.  Getting the shot is up to you. 






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